Guild Wars 2

Well done , I am so glad that a thief is 0 in pvp and wvsw .This is called balance between classes. I am so dissapointed about this game.

Nice constructive feedback. I like how you detailed your points, to explained what is not working well and why. I am sure the devs will find this information very useful and easy to understand. Top marks.

/s

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

I destroy in hotjoins too. In fact I think we got a boost against noobs who don’t run immunity passives or react slowly. Try playing against competent players in tpvp tho… We got a big nerf against those guys because their builds will most likely include those passives along with a good reaction time when they are down.

Just saying, thief got nerfed hard…

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

With you on this one, +1 – all the bads should pick up engi and nade spam

Well I should clarify I haven’t played a single hot join, my perspective is from playing with and against top players and doing great. It’s not how it used to be, but it’s far from being trash tier and worthy of all this forum QQ. There are a few minor tweaks that could improve quality of life, but even still it’s completely viable and effective as is.

swinsk.6410:

I destroy in hotjoins too. In fact I think we got a boost against noobs who don’t run immunity passives or react slowly. Try playing against competent players in tpvp tho… We got a big nerf against those guys because their builds will most likely include those passives along with a good reaction time when they are down.

Just saying, thief got nerfed hard…

Probably the biggest changes for fights have to do with the ability to take passives where there used to not be passives. Elementalists and their stunning aura on cc usage + lightning rod are something new along with the ability for warriors to take defy pain without losing any grandmasters because of it.

Now part of the difficulties is how strong these passives are against thieves in general (sleight of hand working against you with the elementalists and defy pain making any burst irrelevant during its proc), but also the fact that the changes were so massive otherwise. Previously most good players could immediately find out the traits being used by just glancing at the player, but with all the changes this isn’t easy to do at a glance anymore since we haven’t been exposed to each of the builds for as long.

Due to this I’m reserving judgement about thief until I have more experience against the other builds out there, since much of my thief play requires active defense and that requires knowledge of the opponents that is still developing with the new traitlines/patch changes.

Helly.2597:

swinsk.6410:

I destroy in hotjoins too. In fact I think we got a boost against noobs who don’t run immunity passives or react slowly. Try playing against competent players in tpvp tho… We got a big nerf against those guys because their builds will most likely include those passives along with a good reaction time when they are down.

Just saying, thief got nerfed hard…

Probably the biggest changes for fights have to do with the ability to take passives where there used to not be passives. Elementalists and their stunning aura on cc usage + lightning rod are something new along with the ability for warriors to take defy pain without losing any grandmasters because of it.

Now part of the difficulties is how strong these passives are against thieves in general (sleight of hand working against you with the elementalists and defy pain making any burst irrelevant during its proc), but also the fact that the changes were so massive otherwise. Previously most good players could immediately find out the traits being used by just glancing at the player, but with all the changes this isn’t easy to do at a glance anymore since we haven’t been exposed to each of the builds for as long.

Due to this I’m reserving judgement about thief until I have more experience against the other builds out there, since much of my thief play requires active defense and that requires knowledge of the opponents that is still developing with the new traitlines/patch changes.

This drives me nuts now while on my thief. The auto-proc of endure pain, plus taking the actual skill just provides such a long resistance to physical damage. Other abilities like reapers defense, tempest defense, and mesmer’s mirroring one (the name escapes me) just shut down an initial burst. The number of blocks that burn coming from guards is also really tough.

Maugetarr.6823:

This drives me nuts now while on my thief. The auto-proc of endure pain, plus taking the actual skill just provides such a long resistance to physical damage. Other abilities like reapers defense, tempest defense, and mesmer’s mirroring one (the name escapes me) just shut down an initial burst. The number of blocks that burn coming from guards is also really tough.

Yeah the amount of cc induced procs is crazy now. They existed before but few had the points to trait into them, now not an issue. Been having to remind myself to open against d/d eles with headshot and then kiting for 4s while they have that aura up. IMO its a little silly, but we’ll adapt like we always do. Thieves are still useful as gankers and +1ers.

Yet thief is still there in top teams.

I’ve actually picked up a decent D/P – P/P build because of the recent buffs.

There’s no cookie cutter builds atm, so itll be much harder for people that dont want to just try things until they find something that works.

lighter.2708:

Yet thief is still there in top teams.

And that has nothing to do with th actual topic because:
1. Mobility for backcapping
Wasn’t nerfed and the #1 reason why thieves are taken over other classes.
2. Mobility for +1ing
As i said, mobility wasn’t nerfed.
3. Dmg for +1ing
The damage, especially if going 11001, was increased by a lot.
Which doesnt have anything to do with actual balance, as thieves are forced into being really bursty right now (SA’s healing capacity is limited in PvP due to the fact you generally don’t want to stay in stealth for too long)

So thanks for a reply that didn’t have anything to do with the actual balance changes to thief kthxbye

thieves are ok, they just have to deal with a lot of bugs, never implemented but promised buffs (honestly, this gotta be trollest patch so far) and obviously way too strong mechanics (bugs) from other classes

once other classes get toned down and bugs fixed i think thieves will be fine

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Tarkan.5609:

lighter.2708:

Yet thief is still there in top teams.

And that has nothing to do with th actual topic because:
1. Mobility for backcapping
Wasn’t nerfed and the #1 reason why thieves are taken over other classes.
2. Mobility for +1ing
As i said, mobility wasn’t nerfed.
3. Dmg for +1ing
The damage, especially if going 11001, was increased by a lot.
Which doesnt have anything to do with actual balance, as thieves are forced into being really bursty right now (SA’s healing capacity is limited in PvP due to the fact you generally don’t want to stay in stealth for too long)

So thanks for a reply that didn’t have anything to do with the actual balance changes to thief kthxbye

thanks, you said it yourself, these are the things considered in the balance, if you balance on top of all that, theres no balance

T raw.4658:

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Not sure what lies you could be seeing but ok? All I can think of is you interpreted my post as I’ve never played thief before in my life until this patch in which case I apologize for the confusion. But considering I’ve been gone for over a month and just started up again with thief as my main, I’m not struggling in any PvP matches after the first couple of days learning the patch and knocking the rust off. This leads me to believe the forum complaints are being blown WAY out of proportion and thieves remain a valuable asset to any PvP team.

Cynz.9437:

thieves are ok, they just have to deal with a lot of bugs, never implemented but promised buffs …

The buffs were stolen.

I am upset about the thief as well. I just got a pair of Zojja’s Revolvers, and the very next day, I am weaker than I was before.

The loss of Riccochett means that in PVE, I have no good area of effect skills. The exploding arrows do damage, but the area is much smaller than the Ranger’s Barrage.

Thieves’ have short melee weapons and short ranged weapons. It would seem than Arenanet listened to a highly vocal group of people an made changes based on that.

I feel bad because I originally bought Guild Wars 1 to play with a friend. I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t my thing, but when I saw Lion’s Arch, I wanted to play the game for myself. I enjoyed playing the game when I bought it, but Arenanet has made so many heinous anti-player choices, that it’s a much less enjoyable game that it was last year, and because he still likes the game, we are having tension.

I also feel bad because my posts were sanitized on the board to remove and quell evidence of my dissatisfaction over the new “Lion’s Arch.”

Chaotic.9742:

T raw.4658:

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Not sure what lies you could be seeing but ok? All I can think of is you interpreted my post as I’ve never played thief before in my life until this patch in which case I apologize for the confusion. But considering I’ve been gone for over a month and just started up again with thief as my main, I’m not struggling in any PvP matches after the first couple of days learning the patch and knocking the rust off. This leads me to believe the forum complaints are being blown WAY out of proportion and thieves remain a valuable asset to any PvP team.

Yet the fact that all thieves play the exact same build already goes to show how terrible this patch is.
The goal and purpose of this patch was to create build diversity. So what’s the result: D/D, S/D, P/P and S/P are all still not competitive. They have entirely missed the intention. Previously you’d have S/D as an at least somewhat viable option, now it’s literally just D/P with DA/SA/TR (ok some people play CS>SA, awesome diversity!)

So even though you can still kick kitten in hotjoins because those people are oblivious, once you get against a somewhat decent player, you’re done for.
You said you’re new, so your experiences are skewed due to a lack of material to compare it with. Most people here have been playing thief for a significant time though and therefor know what’s wrong. I’m not saying this to be an kitten but really… Pretty much everything in this patch involves a Nerf for Thieves in one way or another.

Zero Day.2594:

Cynz.9437:

thieves are ok, they just have to deal with a lot of bugs, never implemented but promised buffs …

The buffs were stolen.

F2=1shot Engi completely agree.

lighter.2708:

Tarkan.5609:

lighter.2708:

Yet thief is still there in top teams.

And that has nothing to do with th actual topic because:
1. Mobility for backcapping
Wasn’t nerfed and the #1 reason why thieves are taken over other classes.
2. Mobility for +1ing
As i said, mobility wasn’t nerfed.
3. Dmg for +1ing
The damage, especially if going 11001, was increased by a lot.
Which doesnt have anything to do with actual balance, as thieves are forced into being really bursty right now (SA’s healing capacity is limited in PvP due to the fact you generally don’t want to stay in stealth for too long)

So thanks for a reply that didn’t have anything to do with the actual balance changes to thief kthxbye

thanks, you said it yourself, these are the things considered in the balance, if you balance on top of all that, theres no balance

Thieves are in top teams for this reason.
Actually, Mesmer do everything (and more) that Thieves do:
Dmg and Burst, ranged though
Boon remove (random but also a 4x daze on F3)
Add portal and more Traits being made baseline and bam.

The only thing Thief is better at atm is Mobility, so you call balance removing some dmg and mobility? So that Mesmer gets into Meta over Thief?
Well then…

Also you seem to have missed one thing i wrote:
thieves are forced into being really bursty
So they dont have any actual defenses (especially not against AoE) apart from Shadow Step which is on a 50-60s CD
Which imo makes it pretty balanced?

Tarkan.5609:

lighter.2708:

Tarkan.5609:

lighter.2708:

Yet thief is still there in top teams.

And that has nothing to do with th actual topic because:
1. Mobility for backcapping
Wasn’t nerfed and the #1 reason why thieves are taken over other classes.
2. Mobility for +1ing
As i said, mobility wasn’t nerfed.
3. Dmg for +1ing
The damage, especially if going 11001, was increased by a lot.
Which doesnt have anything to do with actual balance, as thieves are forced into being really bursty right now (SA’s healing capacity is limited in PvP due to the fact you generally don’t want to stay in stealth for too long)

So thanks for a reply that didn’t have anything to do with the actual balance changes to thief kthxbye

thanks, you said it yourself, these are the things considered in the balance, if you balance on top of all that, theres no balance

Thieves are in top teams for this reason.
Actually, Mesmer do everything (and more) that Thieves do:
Dmg and Burst, ranged though
Boon remove (random but also a 4x daze on F3)
Add portal and more Traits being made baseline and bam.

The only thing Thief is better at atm is Mobility, so you call balance removing some dmg and mobility? So that Mesmer gets into Meta over Thief?
Well then…

Also you seem to have missed one thing i wrote:
thieves are forced into being really bursty
So they dont have any actual defenses (especially not against AoE) apart from Shadow Step which is on a 50-60s CD
Which imo makes it pretty balanced?

and you still need a thief to keep the mesmer in check..

in team fights thief generally has it easy against mesmers yes, in a 1v1 it mostly comes down to who is able to land the first burst though (evn though the chance for thief to land that may be higher)

but thats what counters are, so lets keep this going:
You need a thief to keep the meta Mesmer in check.
Then you need a guard to keep the mesmer-countering thief in check.
Wanna continue?

Vornollo.5182:

Chaotic.9742:

T raw.4658:

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Not sure what lies you could be seeing but ok? All I can think of is you interpreted my post as I’ve never played thief before in my life until this patch in which case I apologize for the confusion. But considering I’ve been gone for over a month and just started up again with thief as my main, I’m not struggling in any PvP matches after the first couple of days learning the patch and knocking the rust off. This leads me to believe the forum complaints are being blown WAY out of proportion and thieves remain a valuable asset to any PvP team.

Yet the fact that all thieves play the exact same build already goes to show how terrible this patch is.
The goal and purpose of this patch was to create build diversity. So what’s the result: D/D, S/D, P/P and S/P are all still not competitive. They have entirely missed the intention. Previously you’d have S/D as an at least somewhat viable option, now it’s literally just D/P with DA/SA/TR (ok some people play CS>SA, awesome diversity!)

So even though you can still kick kitten in hotjoins because those people are oblivious, once you get against a somewhat decent player, you’re done for.
You said you’re new, so your experiences are skewed due to a lack of material to compare it with. Most people here have been playing thief for a significant time though and therefor know what’s wrong. I’m not saying this to be an kitten but really… Pretty much everything in this patch involves a Nerf for Thieves in one way or another.

Where to even start…if the overall purpose of this patch was to bring new builds in for all classes (because why would they only want thief to have that ability?), where are the axe/axe warriors, shield guardians, and every other lesser run combination for any class out there? I don’t see those combinations very much if at all. This game has never and will never be balanced so that every weapon set is comparable to each of the others for any class because of the perspectives of players.

Again, my experience with the current patch is NOT from hotjoins but rather from playing with and against some of the top players from NA. I’ve played PvP competitively over multiple patches/metas so I draw from that experience to see/understand the changes to thief. Yes, they took a hit in some aspects (a small one IMO), but they are still 100% viable in this meta. Sure d/p is the go-to setup currently, but if you want to make s/d work, you still can but the effort involved versus the payoff is not as favorable as the d/p setup. So because d/p is easier to have a larger impact on, people flock to it and it gets the reputation as the go-to choice for thieves in PvP.

I’m saying the over the top QQ like “OMG THIEF IS DEAD!!11!!1!1,” such as this thread, is uncalled for. Just play, learn from your mistakes/experiences, read over the changes, and adapt to them. If you don’t want to run d/p, theorycraft and practice new/unique builds thoroughly before you write them off. This really isn’t that bad of a patch. It’s fine to ask for some changes concerning skills/abilities/etc, but to just throw your arms up in the air and scream (like the OP did) is just foolish.

Thief not =0
0 = thief player
leveled thief player = OP
So Stop whining & get some skill’s

Chaotic.9742:

I’m saying the over the top QQ like “OMG THIEF IS DEAD!!11!!1!1,” such as this thread, is uncalled for. Just play, learn from your mistakes/experiences, read over the changes, and adapt to them. If you don’t want to run d/p, theorycraft and practice new/unique builds thoroughly before you write them off. This really isn’t that bad of a patch. It’s fine to ask for some changes concerning skills/abilities/etc, but to just throw your arms up in the air and scream (like the OP did) is just foolish.

Play thief for a bit longer maybe?
It’s hard to take advise from someone new to the class.

Jana.6831:

Chaotic.9742:

I’m saying the over the top QQ like “OMG THIEF IS DEAD!!11!!1!1,” such as this thread, is uncalled for. Just play, learn from your mistakes/experiences, read over the changes, and adapt to them. If you don’t want to run d/p, theorycraft and practice new/unique builds thoroughly before you write them off. This really isn’t that bad of a patch. It’s fine to ask for some changes concerning skills/abilities/etc, but to just throw your arms up in the air and scream (like the OP did) is just foolish.

Play thief for a bit longer maybe?
It’s hard to take advise from someone new to the class.

Nessie isn’t new to the class or the game. His thoughts more or less echo my same thoughts about the patch when it comes to thief.

And honestly his advise is more attitude adjustment from the overreaction (imo) that many are showing here on the forums.

Ok, I misread it – still I’m not convinced that any of this patch is any good except for group player condi thieves and D/P thieves.

Jana.6831:

Chaotic.9742:

I’m saying the over the top QQ like “OMG THIEF IS DEAD!!11!!1!1,” such as this thread, is uncalled for. Just play, learn from your mistakes/experiences, read over the changes, and adapt to them. If you don’t want to run d/p, theorycraft and practice new/unique builds thoroughly before you write them off. This really isn’t that bad of a patch. It’s fine to ask for some changes concerning skills/abilities/etc, but to just throw your arms up in the air and scream (like the OP did) is just foolish.

Play thief for a bit longer maybe?
It’s hard to take advise from someone new to the class.

So, if I play for a month or so longer, everyone will then listen to me when I say the exact same thing I’m saying now? That’s laughable because I’m not new to this game, I’m very experienced when it comes to PvP. I don’t need to play a class for a year to go “Hey guys, relax, thief is still 100% viable. Simmer down a little maybe with the thief is dead QQ?” I’ve played against this class forever, had to understand its mechanics and builds to be able to play against it at a high level, but now that I’m actually playing it (and doing quite well with it vs. good players) nobody wants to listen at all when I’m telling them thief is not trash tier? Of course it has it’s small flaws like other classes, but the thief is dead QQ is ridiculous.

Edit: just saw Helly posted while I was responding, sorry if this sounds a bit abrasive.

Now go learn to play like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMNsVVW7YVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKEJlsFj4Aw

overall, stop your whining violin playing.. plzzz

Vieux P.1238:

Now go learn to play like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMNsVVW7YVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKEJlsFj4Aw

overall, stop your whining violin playing.. plzzz

2 videos directly after the patch when no one knew how to change their builds – okay.
And one video about a glass thief who dies when hitted once – okay.
Your advise seems valid!

Jana.6831:

Vieux P.1238:

Now go learn to play like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMNsVVW7YVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbqVhz24tAE
or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKEJlsFj4Aw

overall, stop your whining violin playing.. plzzz

2 videos directly after the patch when no one knew how to change their builds – okay.
And one video about a glass thief who dies when hitted once – okay.
Your advise seems valid!

then dont make it glassy. But stop kittening about how weak thief turn out to be & get some skill’s

Vieux P.1238:

then dont make it glassy. But stop kittening about how weak thief turn out to be & get some skill’s

Ok and that is the answer to what?

Jana.6831:

Vieux P.1238:

then dont make it glassy. But stop kittening about how weak thief turn out to be & get some skill’s

Ok and that is the answer to what?

to you, the noob.

Let’s see what this Jana has been complaining since april 2014,

“So thief is unplayable now? As there’s no way I will be able to survive like this.”
while thief pre patch has always been the OP class in every top team the whole 2014.

it’s funny when some one can’t play an OP class

Simon.3794:

Let’s see what this Jana has been complaining since april 2014,

“So thief is unplayable now? As there’s no way I will be able to survive like this.”
while thief pre patch has always been the OP class in every top team the whole 2014.

it’s funny when some one can’t play an OP class

Thief hasn’t been OP – just scrubs thought it was and the patch destroyed some weaponsets of thief and that is what we’re complaining about.
And your point is? Trying to find something stupid in my post log – good luck – I actually know what I wrote the past 2 years

Oh wow, did you just call me a srub? yup you did

wanna duel my thief, friend? let’s see whos the real scrub

Simon.3794:

Oh wow, did you just call me a srub? yup you did

wanna duel my thief, friend? let’s see whos the real scrub

Scrub a dub dub scrubby mcscrubberson.

My issue with the thief now is that our defensive lines are pretty meh now. Our burst is great. I’m just dissapointed in the changes to acrobatics in particular.

Chaotic.9742:

T raw.4658:

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Not sure what lies you could be seeing but ok? All I can think of is you interpreted my post as I’ve never played thief before in my life until this patch in which case I apologize for the confusion. But considering I’ve been gone for over a month and just started up again with thief as my main, I’m not struggling in any PvP matches after the first couple of days learning the patch and knocking the rust off. This leads me to believe the forum complaints are being blown WAY out of proportion and thieves remain a valuable asset to any PvP team.

Claiming you are dominating PvP as a thief after the patch leads me to believe our definition of dominating are different.

So in light of that please tell how you are dominating.

Thanks

Vornollo.5182:

Chaotic.9742:

T raw.4658:

Chaotic.9742:

Love all the QQ about this patch. I picked up theif upon returning and can absolutely dominate in PvP after two days of learning how to fight other classes intelligently. I sincerely don’t get all of this complaining, adapt to the patch – this isn’t the end of the world.

Many lies are being told. Very evident when reading post history…

Not sure what lies you could be seeing but ok? All I can think of is you interpreted my post as I’ve never played thief before in my life until this patch in which case I apologize for the confusion. But considering I’ve been gone for over a month and just started up again with thief as my main, I’m not struggling in any PvP matches after the first couple of days learning the patch and knocking the rust off. This leads me to believe the forum complaints are being blown WAY out of proportion and thieves remain a valuable asset to any PvP team.

Yet the fact that all thieves play the exact same build already goes to show how terrible this patch is.
The goal and purpose of this patch was to create build diversity. So what’s the result: D/D, S/D, P/P and S/P are all still not competitive. They have entirely missed the intention. Previously you’d have S/D as an at least somewhat viable option, now it’s literally just D/P with DA/SA/TR (ok some people play CS>SA, awesome diversity!)

So even though you can still kick kitten in hotjoins because those people are oblivious, once you get against a somewhat decent player, you’re done for.
You said you’re new, so your experiences are skewed due to a lack of material to compare it with. Most people here have been playing thief for a significant time though and therefor know what’s wrong. I’m not saying this to be an kitten but really… Pretty much everything in this patch involves a Nerf for Thieves in one way or another.

This is so true. +1

Thiefs viable if you wish to go D/P — Out of curiosity is any other class in the same position with only one viable weapon set? I think even shoutbow variants have enough swap options to have a larger pool.