Nope. Inf Return nerf doesn't make sense.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654
He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
lol he died in the 5 seconds i watched the stream already.
All is vain.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
lol he died in the 5 seconds i watched the stream already.
Obviously he isn’t immortal.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
lol he died in the 5 seconds i watched the stream already.
Obviously he isn’t immortal.
i expected more from a top teef.
All is vain.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
It is not almost instant. The main nerf from it comes from the fact that you can’t cast it and straight away enter the animation to cast shadow return. Now it’s like any other skill where it queue’s up.
For example, if you just started your auto attack skill but need to shadow return, your thief will finish his auto attack then start casting shadow return. This is like 1 second delay at least.
I don’t see why it needed a nerf in the first place. Maybe it gave thieves a bit of movement play and gave them access to getting away from sticky situations even through they are stunned. Unfortunately, thieves paid for that with the lack of access to stability. Now, we can only get out of 3 stuns, assuming you have all 3 of our stun breakers on your bar, which isn’t usually the case, and they are on long CDs.
(edited by Bredgen.6721)
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
It is not almost instant. The main nerf from it comes from the fact that you can’t cast it and straight away enter the animation to cast shadow return. Now it’s like any other skill where it queue’s up.
For example, if you just started your auto attack skill but need to shadow return, your thief will finish his auto attack then start casting shadow return. This is like 1 second delay at least.
I don’t see why it needed a nerf in the first place. Maybe it gave thieves a bit of movement play and gave them access to getting away from sticky situations even through they are stunned. Unfortunately, thieves paid for that with the lack of access to stability. Now, we can only get out of 3 stuns, assuming you have all 3 of our stun breakers on your bar, which isn’t usually the case, and they are on long CDs.
I’m a teef and in my opinion the skill itself was too OP.
Before any nerf, it gave you a condi removal, stunbreaker, immbo,damage,infinite return range and gap closer, lol it was the most OP thing in the kittening game seriously.
Now this skill is finally FINE.
come on before the last patch it gave you the right to spam stunbreaks.
(edited by Elxdark.9702)
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
a dev playing? pfft.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
It is not almost instant. The main nerf from it comes from the fact that you can’t cast it and straight away enter the animation to cast shadow return. Now it’s like any other skill where it queue’s up.
For example, if you just started your auto attack skill but need to shadow return, your thief will finish his auto attack then start casting shadow return. This is like 1 second delay at least.
I don’t see why it needed a nerf in the first place. Maybe it gave thieves a bit of movement play and gave them access to getting away from sticky situations even through they are stunned. Unfortunately, thieves paid for that with the lack of access to stability. Now, we can only get out of 3 stuns, assuming you have all 3 of our stun breakers on your bar, which isn’t usually the case, and they are on long CDs.
I’m a teef and in my opinion the skill itself was too OP.
Before any nerf, it gave you a condi removal, stunbreaker, immbo,damage,infinite return range and close gap, lol it was the most OP thing in the kittening game seriously.
Now this skill is finally FINE.
come on before the last patch it gave you the right to spam stunbreaks.
But you’re wrong on a few counts here.
I’ll go down the list of the stuff you said it gives you:
Condi removal/Immob/Dmg/gap closer – Yes.
Stun breaker – No! It USED to be a stun breaker but they removed that. Now it only brings you back when you shadow return. You are still stunned. If you were fighting in a flat area and you shadow returned, and they saw where you went, you’d still be in trouble, although it did give you a bit of breather space.
Infinite return range – Also not true. It brought you back exactly 1200 range. Granted this is relatively far, but a thief can’t do anything at 1200 range. If you ran past the 1200 range (say 1400 range), you’d teleport back to your original position + 200 range. This is how it works from what I’ve observed.
Other than that I kind of agree. It was quite strong. Now it’s very much whatever. That 0.25 second cast time really makes it easy to counter. A single stun, and done. I think a middle ground is needed. I’m not sure how we can find it, but it is needed.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
It is not almost instant. The main nerf from it comes from the fact that you can’t cast it and straight away enter the animation to cast shadow return. Now it’s like any other skill where it queue’s up.
For example, if you just started your auto attack skill but need to shadow return, your thief will finish his auto attack then start casting shadow return. This is like 1 second delay at least.
I don’t see why it needed a nerf in the first place. Maybe it gave thieves a bit of movement play and gave them access to getting away from sticky situations even through they are stunned. Unfortunately, thieves paid for that with the lack of access to stability. Now, we can only get out of 3 stuns, assuming you have all 3 of our stun breakers on your bar, which isn’t usually the case, and they are on long CDs.
I’m a teef and in my opinion the skill itself was too OP.
Before any nerf, it gave you a condi removal, stunbreaker, immbo,damage,infinite return range and close gap, lol it was the most OP thing in the kittening game seriously.
Now this skill is finally FINE.
come on before the last patch it gave you the right to spam stunbreaks.
But you’re wrong on a few counts here.
I’ll go down the list of the stuff you said it gives you:
Condi removal/Immob/Dmg/gap closer – Yes.
Stun breaker – No! It USED to be a stun breaker but they removed that. Now it only brings you back when you shadow return. You are still stunned. If you were fighting in a flat area and you shadow returned, and they saw where you went, you’d still be in trouble, although it did give you a bit of breather space.
Infinite return range – Also not true. It brought you back exactly 1200 range. Granted this is relatively far, but a thief can’t do anything at 1200 range. If you ran past the 1200 range (say 1400 range), you’d teleport back to your original position + 200 range. This is how it works from what I’ve observed.Other than that I kind of agree. It was quite strong. Now it’s very much whatever. That 0.25 second cast time really makes it easy to counter. A single stun, and done. I think a middle ground is needed. I’m not sure how we can find it, but it is needed.
I said BEFORE ANY NERF.
They were nerfing it every patch till the last.
And yes, it wasn’t a stunbreaker but it worked as one.
O what’s the point of comparing it before any nerf to how it is now. Should compare it to before this patch and after.
Like I said, it was really strong, but now it’s quite weak. Need something in the middle imo.
No, sorry but you’re just bad.
It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.
I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.
It is not almost instant. The main nerf from it comes from the fact that you can’t cast it and straight away enter the animation to cast shadow return. Now it’s like any other skill where it queue’s up.
For example, if you just started your auto attack skill but need to shadow return, your thief will finish his auto attack then start casting shadow return. This is like 1 second delay at least.
I don’t see why it needed a nerf in the first place. Maybe it gave thieves a bit of movement play and gave them access to getting away from sticky situations even through they are stunned. Unfortunately, thieves paid for that with the lack of access to stability. Now, we can only get out of 3 stuns, assuming you have all 3 of our stun breakers on your bar, which isn’t usually the case, and they are on long CDs.
I’m a teef and in my opinion the skill itself was too OP.
Before any nerf, it gave you a condi removal, stunbreaker, immbo,damage,infinite return range and gap closer, lol it was the most OP thing in the kittening game seriously.
Now this skill is finally FINE.
come on before the last patch it gave you the right to spam stunbreaks.
Condi removal- pretty much the only condi removal this weaponset has, or any build using it has
Stunbreaker- not really. Usually it wasn’t far enough away to count as a stun breaker, and even if it was, you’d usually have to spend 5 initiative total to get back into the battle. The point of stuns, however, is to lock down the opponent, keeping him/her from doing anything. This has a variety of uses, but the one that has been most (ab?)used by ANet and, in particular, Warriors, is using stuns to keep an opponent from reacting to a high-damage attack, or high-damage attacks. Since basically every warrior skill is high-damage (well, many, many of them are), this has tended towards being the strategy for most warrs. The process simply becomes
1. Stun
2. Burst
3. Clean (ie use utilities, cleansing ire, etc)
4. Repeat
Which, unlike similar patterns in the game, deals far more damage overall and/or allows the player using the pattern to absorb massive amounts of damage at the same time.
However, the necessary idea is that, in order for this cycle to work, one must be able to use his or her melee attacks while the opponent is stunned (melee tends to do the most damage). By being able to use infi return, we were able to break this cycle, which did not in fact “completely destroy the warrior” or anything they’ll tell you, but rather countered that particular method of play, forcing warriors to find a different and less comfortable way to play their builds.
On the other hand, look at Lockdown mesmers. Their goal is not necessarily to burst you into the ground while attacking you, but rather to negate some of your damage by keeping you unable to react. Against these, Infi Return was near useless, except in situations where the shadowstep would take you farther away than the 1200 range on a mes’ weapons would allow, but even then, that was a fairly minor nuance.
As such, I would not, in fact, call infi return a stunbreaker, but rather a counter to a particular, cyclical pattern that must be itself countered by a different method of play.
Immobilize: yeah, for only one second, with a small damage coefficient, and while costing 5 initiative to do with any degree of repetition… Anyhow, this is completely unrelated to the nerf to Infi Return.
Infinite Range: in retrospect, possibly a good change (I personally dislike it because it made the skill, and the game, far less interesting; I’d much rather see other classes get more mobility/immobilizing abilities [not just the immob condition] or otherwise generally interesting skills, but that’s just me), but this was nerfed months and months ago, so I have no idea why you’re bringing it up now.
Gap Closer: yes, one with 600 range… And it’s not like Infi Strike is the only skill with gap-closing abilities. Anyhow, this is again related to Infi Strike, not Infi Return…
So, really, there is no good argument for nerfing Infi Return; they all either are irrelevant to the skill anyways or are misgiven to various misconceptions about the skill and the game itself.
its just a personal thing with anet. they dont like their players not being able to destroy thieves at will. . . even tho they can do many things thieves cant.