Guild Wars 2

I can already tell, in the new teaser that we are gonna get wayy more blinds and things we dont need, And i wouldnt get my hopes up for staff damage, dont think its gonna fix us, becuase based on the other elites i think this one will be crap. The only elite thats even decent is chronomancer, people speculate we will get some sort of shadow clone, and even if we do they wont have the health or damage of mesmers clones.

Mesmer CLONES don’t have damage. This might bring a trait line I’m actually excited for to the thief, even if it doesn’t start good the devs are listening it seems (unless you’re a tempest, or you’re asking for something that they already didn’t plan on doing like rifle) , So i have faith this will be great.

My mistake, when i say clones i am including phantasms too, dont flip out or anything.

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

I try to be positive, but the last 4 E-specs weren’t Karl.

Gray.9041:

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

I try to be positive, but the last 4 E-specs weren’t Karl.

It doesn’t mean they can’t be good though.

Tempest feels uninspired, but it’s basically because Elementalists can do everything except physical melee or tanking already and they do it all very well, so there is little to work with. In fact, I would hate to be on whatever team has to keep making up specs for the Elementalist because of what it already offers. Tempest does have a lot of potential for WvW and PvP (8 AoE stunbreaks?), though I probably wouldn’t take it into open world PvE.

A lot of people want to hate on DH, and it has its downsides, but the traits aren’t bad and if you’re going for a long-range build it is a must-have. I thought it worked fairly well in the Beta, and they have upped the numbers since then too.

Chronomancer is awesome with passive +25% move speed, Berserker is awesome with the new fire-y mechanics, Reaper is awesome with the new AoE capabilities, and Herald seems quite nice too (but we’ll see when we actually get to play it). Ultimately, my point is that there are going to be less-appealing E.specs, but it would be unfair for it to be assumed in advance that it is going to be bad. They really haven’t set such a precedent.

Gray.9041:

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

I try to be positive, but the last 4 E-specs weren’t Karl.

I play guardian and thief. I’m so tired of getting Karl’d. Please please give at least one of my classes the Robert Gee treatment.

Drennon.7190:

Gray.9041:

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

I try to be positive, but the last 4 E-specs weren’t Karl.

I play guardian and thief. I’m so tired of getting Karl’d. Please please give at least one of my classes the Robert Gee treatment.

Karl made the last thief overhaul so it is very likely that thief won’t get Robert’s treatment… also guys try not to mention Karl in a bad way because he might even read a few articles in the thief forum this week.

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

Karl brought this on himself it’s called a track record you know like we have them for everything we don’t believe change until we see it.

MiniEquine.6014:

Gray.9041:

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

I try to be positive, but the last 4 E-specs weren’t Karl.

It doesn’t mean they can’t be good though.

Tempest feels uninspired, but it’s basically because Elementalists can do everything except physical melee or tanking already and they do it all very well, so there is little to work with. In fact, I would hate to be on whatever team has to keep making up specs for the Elementalist because of what it already offers. Tempest does have a lot of potential for WvW and PvP (8 AoE stunbreaks?), though I probably wouldn’t take it into open world PvE.

A lot of people want to hate on DH, and it has its downsides, but the traits aren’t bad and if you’re going for a long-range build it is a must-have. I thought it worked fairly well in the Beta, and they have upped the numbers since then too.

Chronomancer is awesome with passive +25% move speed, Berserker is awesome with the new fire-y mechanics, Reaper is awesome with the new AoE capabilities, and Herald seems quite nice too (but we’ll see when we actually get to play it). Ultimately, my point is that there are going to be less-appealing E.specs, but it would be unfair for it to be assumed in advance that it is going to be bad. They really haven’t set such a precedent.

Karl is responsible for DH, Tempest, and the new thief specialization.

He is not responsible for the positive changes to the other professions.

I fully anticipate not playing the new thief specialization as I have no doubt in my mind it’ll be uninspired and gimmicky. My only positive outlook on the future of this reveal is that we may finally get some developer attention on the fundamental problems with this class, just as how Robert made a pose recently how he plans on addressing the core necro specializations/mechanics of its weapons in the upcoming months as well to solve fundamental issues with the class.

Getting at least some kind of input about the thief through to ANet is about all the good I see coming.

At this point, I couldn’t care less about the actual elite spec. I’m hoping more that the announcement means our core stuff will be getting an actual, proper look-see.

All the elite specs in the world won’t fix a rotten foundation.

I truly wish Robert Gee would take care of us, but I don’t think ONE dev takes care of the whole profession. They must work together and give each feedback because… balance.

Is Karl the one who pulled a stunt on Acrobatics? If so… meh. If not… meh.
What really matters now is that throughout BWE, they will be given the chance to rework the Thief. This is the most important point. I mean they have to make the elite Spec very appealing for the noobs.

They are putting all their marketing investment on drawing new GW2 players for HoT. So with that logic, it is safe to say that have no choice but to fix things. pretty much fix everything. Pretty sure they don’t want new players to read the kitten we are going through right now. That’s just bad looks.

So to be honest Karl or not, Gee or not. I remain positive to the fact that Anet has a serious stake at tidying up the huge mess we are in before the honored new guests arrive. Trust Anet’s will to make a profit, and not the devs.

Kocoff.7582:

I truly wish Robert Gee would take care of us, but I don’t think ONE dev takes care of the whole profession. They must work together and give each feedback because… balance.

Is Karl the one who pulled a stunt on Acrobatics? If so… meh. If not… meh.
What really matters now is that throughout BWE, they will be given the chance to rework the Thief. This is the most important point. I mean they have to make the elite Spec very appealing for the noobs.

They are putting all their marketing investment on drawing new GW2 players for HoT. So with that logic, it is safe to say that have no choice but to fix things. pretty much fix everything. Pretty sure they don’t want new players to read the kitten we are going through right now. That’s just bad looks.

So to be honest Karl or not, Gee or not. I remain positive to the fact that Anet has a serious stake at tidying up the huge mess we are in before the honored new guests arrive. Trust Anet’s will to make a profit, and not the devs.

I’d like to think that, and I’ve heard some devs suggest similarly – but you can’t deny that classes and specs looked after by Gee and Roy have been better thought out, better made, and better maintained that those done by karl. (Rev/Reaper/Chrono work thematically, mechanically and have had great dev interaction – less so on DH/Tempest)

MiniEquine.6014:

Gray.9041:

MiniEquine.6014:

Black Box.9312:

Expect about the quality of traits you’ll find in Tempest or Dragonhunter. Or lack of quality, rather.

You are truly the most negative person here (and on every single thread, mind you). Could the same be said about what they did with the Reaper, Chronomancer, Herald, and Berserker? What indication do you actually have that the traits will be bad when they are quite good on at least 4 of the revealed E.specs and at least decent on DH.

Elementalists can do tanking really well and in some cased better than any other class. That said I am not talking about traditional tanks, since GW2 does not let us have those at least not until now. Ele is quite bad in condi dmg and melee dmg. Do not get me wrong his condi is exceptionally good now that burn stacks, but they dont have multiple conditions so its easy to remove. I hope thief is going to be as good as chronomancer which is by far the best elite spec. Berserker is not bad but is not good either. Not much too offer, rather than torch for condi warrior.
I try to be positive, but the last 4 E-specs weren’t Karl.

It doesn’t mean they can’t be good though.

Tempest feels uninspired, but it’s basically because Elementalists can do everything except physical melee or tanking already and they do it all very well, so there is little to work with. In fact, I would hate to be on whatever team has to keep making up specs for the Elementalist because of what it already offers. Tempest does have a lot of potential for WvW and PvP (8 AoE stunbreaks?), though I probably wouldn’t take it into open world PvE.

A lot of people want to hate on DH, and it has its downsides, but the traits aren’t bad and if you’re going for a long-range build it is a must-have. I thought it worked fairly well in the Beta, and they have upped the numbers since then too.

Chronomancer is awesome with passive +25% move speed, Berserker is awesome with the new fire-y mechanics, Reaper is awesome with the new AoE capabilities, and Herald seems quite nice too (but we’ll see when we actually get to play it). Ultimately, my point is that there are going to be less-appealing E.specs, but it would be unfair for it to be assumed in advance that it is going to be bad. They really haven’t set such a precedent.

Gray.9041:

but you can’t deny that classes and specs looked after by Gee and Roy have been better thought out, better made, and better maintained that those done by karl. (Rev/Reaper/Chrono work thematically, mechanically and have had great dev interaction – less so on DH/Tempest)

I feel a bit bad saying it, but… I can’t deny it either.

There’s a disparity in quality so far, and it doesn’t make me very hopeful for the Thief reveal.
I really don’t want to seem like I’m putting down our primary dev, but… not sure if it even matters, since all signs seem to indicate that he doesn’t pay any attention to us at all.
I don’t doubt that Karl can do work as elegant as the other devs. It’s more a matter of “does he really even care?”

But then, I guess that the Daredevil is at least potentially the exact thing I want for my Thief (certainly more than the much-predicted sniper would be) so… I may have to eat my words when the reveal hits properly.
Fingers are crossed.

Try not to put all the blames for bad Thief profession on one designer because it is a team effort when it comes to balancing it. As far as we know, Karl might have a lot good ideas for Thief that other designer like Robert and Roy just shut down — thus it looks like their professions look a lot better.

Again, this is just a speculation but I won’t be like one of you guys who blames a particular designer.

However, all the blame will always fall on the head of the balance team — that is his responsibility.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Try not to put all the blames for bad Thief profession on one designer because it is a team effort when it comes to balancing it. As far as we know, Karl might have a lot good ideas for Thief that other designer like Robert and Roy just shut down — thus it looks like their professions look a lot better.

Again, this is just a speculation but I won’t be like one of you guys who blames a particular designer.

However, all the blame will always fall on the head of the balance team — that is his responsibility.

I don’t mean to, and I couldn’t say if Karl’s to blame. but whatever’s happening, there’s a disparity that needs addressed. either a specific dev’s messed up, or the team as a whole has, but there needs to be some consistency.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Try not to put all the blames for bad Thief profession on one designer because it is a team effort when it comes to balancing it. As far as we know, Karl might have a lot good ideas for Thief that other designer like Robert and Roy just shut down — thus it looks like their professions look a lot better.

Again, this is just a speculation but I won’t be like one of you guys who blames a particular designer.

However, all the blame will always fall on the head of the balance team — that is his responsibility.

My issue is not about who is at fault… I truly do not doubt that Anet is aware we’re feeling sleighted, and I absolutely do not believe that anyone is trying to leave us in a bad state. I did not at all mean to imply that.
All I want is someone to say “We hear you”
If they’re working on it, I want to be told so. If they don’t know how to fix it, say so.
It’s not the lack of active changes, exactly; The lack of communication about the concerns of the community is the major part of what bothers me. A candid one-sentence acknowledgement would do a great deal to put my fears to rest. It’s all I want, really… some sign that the Six Gods haven’t abandoned us, so to speak.

I think you’re looking a little too much into a teaser pic.
Best to reserve judgement until Wednesday (when some stuff are hopefully revealed)
THEN go crazy

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Try not to put all the blames for bad Thief profession on one designer because it is a team effort when it comes to balancing it. As far as we know, Karl might have a lot good ideas for Thief that other designer like Robert and Roy just shut down — thus it looks like their professions look a lot better.

Again, this is just a speculation but I won’t be like one of you guys who blames a particular designer.

However, all the blame will always fall on the head of the balance team — that is his responsibility.

Do I think it’s 100% his own fault? Probably not. I don’t think people are saying that it’s literally his and only his responsibility. But as the lead of his team, he represents them as a whole, and therefore must accept the credit/blame on their behalf, and clearly there’s a disparity in feedback between the things his team is working on and the things that Robert’s team is working on.

Foverine.5342:

I think you’re looking a little too much into a teaser pic.
Best to reserve judgement until Wednesday (when some stuff are hopefully revealed)
THEN go crazy

Eh I’d start throwing concerns as early as possible.

Look at the tempest
Originally datamines sword eles = stoked
Finally a true melee zerker option with auto attack chains! we can finally camp attunements and be effective!
Later datamined WH eles = disappointed/denial
Well lets just hope its still sword, if not i guess summoned storms and CC spec could be cool
Confirmed WH (teaser) = Attempted to speculate best case but seriously concerned
Dont freak out guys. We can play a storm summoner class and get a control AOE damage style of play
Announcement (wend) = Where getting kittened boys
Just wait until the full reveal, I’m sure the traits will be good
Full Reveal = They didn’t bring lube either
Just wait until we play it, I’m sure it can be viable in some small niche market!
Beta = Literally no one left in support of tempest other than die-hard anet fanboys and even them are very hesitant.
well um maybe beta 2, but i guess they cant redesign that fast so the number boosts should fix the entire class with bad mechanics, traits, utilities, and elite right!

Seriously you guys are in for it if they still let Karl own this spec. Start telling your fanboys to gtf out or hes going to think he did a good job, like he thinks he did with the tempest.

Thief is not Ele. Ele already has 95% of what they need to be an effective class, so Tempest was never going to be anything beyond a “win more” elite spec.

Thieves on the other hand have everything to lose if this elite spec (and/or the uptick in developer attention that comes with it) fails to pan out.

Amante.8109:

Thief is not Ele. Ele already has 95% of what they need to be an effective class, so Tempest was never going to be anything beyond a “win more” elite spec.

Thieves on the other hand have everything to lose if this elite spec (and/or the uptick in developer attention that comes with it) fails to pan out.

We’ve played the same build in pvp since beta 3 years ago… It’s because our class is designed from a fundamental level badly, just like thief. And just like thief has only one option “all in” we have one option “all defense” This was our chance to leave defense behind and have a burst spec, or a effective condi spec or a active, non boon defense. To have a spec that doesn’t rely on massive spam rotations. Making the excuse that “ele are viable right now so your spec doesn’t matter” is just silly. Thief is completely viable right now as well, doesn’t mean you don’t want a new role viable role that brings a new working mechanic.

Gray.9041:

I don’t mean to, and I couldn’t say if Karl’s to blame. but whatever’s happening, there’s a disparity that needs addressed. either a specific dev’s messed up, or the team as a whole has, but there needs to be some consistency.

They have been consistent, but no to what we wanted but to what they wanted. I believe that Karl is doing his best in making sense of the Thief — we all know that Thief can suck in PvP but dominate in WvW. So there is already inconsistency with the profession. What we really need is for them to go back in separating skills stats for each game mode because each skill does not function the same way in each game mode

I understand that they choose to consolidate the skills to make their job easier (balancing one set of skill across the board instead of for each game mode), but the problem with this approach is what we’re seeing now. They want a fuel efficient car that runs on city streets and also qualify for NASCAR — that’s never gonna happen.

Slowmelt.8547:

All I want is someone to say “We hear you”
If they’re working on it, I want to be told so. If they don’t know how to fix it, say so.
It’s not the lack of active changes, exactly; The lack of communication about the concerns of the community is the major part of what bothers me.

They always have this policy to never say anything about “who”, “when”, “why”, or “how” unless they have officially announced it. So yeah, we’ll never see them posting even a simple “we hear you” without official internal approval.

Black Box.9312:

Do I think it’s 100% his own fault? Probably not. I don’t think people are saying that it’s literally his and only his responsibility.

Well, then let’s not name names, instead use “ArenaNet” rather than “Karl”.

Black Box.9312:

But as the lead of his team, he represents them as a whole, and therefore must accept the credit/blame on their behalf, and clearly there’s a disparity in feedback between the things his team is working on and the things that Robert’s team is working on.

We don’t really know the internal working of ArenaNet so from the outside, your perspective is shared with everyone including me. However, there’s also a possibility that all members of their team are consolidating their time to focus on one profession to get it ready for the reveal, so it is entirely possible that some professions are pushed to the back burner. Since a lot of the professions have already been revealed, they maybe consolidating all their time into one profession that is set to be revealed next.

In my experience, each team might have their own responsibility but often times, the other teams resources are reallocated to help out the other struggling team especially when there’s a deadline to meet. Then when the struggling team is done, their resources are now reallocated to help out the other teams. This is typical in any big company.

My point is, the lack of feedback about other professions might be caused by resources allocation within the company. Since they are not working on it because they are helping other teams for the next reveal, there will be no new information to share.

Just something to think about.