Guild Wars 2

I am noticing less GC bs thieves though there are still some but for the most part I am seeing more P/D, S/D thieves lately. If they are D/D I am noticing alot more carrying S/D on them instead of SB. I don’t see alot of D/D condi spec thieves though. Few P/P thieves and a few D/P.

Right now just from my play experience lately I would say S/P is what I run into the least of all the thieves I see. You guys think S/P is fine or needs as much or more love than P/P?

Neither S/P or P/P give me much of a problem. But having played P/P I think there is room for improvement. I don’t recall the last time I ran into a S/P in wvw though.

headshot needs to be from 1/4 second daze to 1/2 second.
infiltrator’s strike needs to be from 600 range to 900 range (5 initiative wtf?)
blinding powder should last 5 seconds instead of 4
S/p is a very costy build. Stealth does not compliment S/p whatsoever. You can still trait up for it but there are better utilities out there for s/p thieves other then more misc stealth skills.

Stealth trait compliments —--> p/d, d/p, s/d, and d/d. So that’s probably why you’ll see more of em out there.

Yea I can get see maybe a buff to 900 range on infiltrator strike.

I think headshot is fine from my understanding if you actually interrupt a skill during cast with headshot it cant be used for almost 3 seconds. 1/2 sec daze buff wouldn’t really change much. The wiki says its 5 seconds but I think its more around 3 seconds.

Everything else though sounds good to me bladie

I think the main reason you see less S/P in WvW is the lack of consistent stealth, especially when in melee range. When you can consistently hit a thief they are one of the easiest professions to kill, and you can only dodge so many attacks.
As for infiltrators strike the reason it’s 5 initiative is that it’s one of the only weapon skills (if not the only) that provides a stun breaker.

d/p is pretty balance (due to the dagger whether main or off hand, being pretty beast) But S/P and P/P is lacking. And here’s why.

One of the personal changes i wanna see is from pistol off hands, having the ability to place where you want your black powder to be. I do not understand the animation of it, where you’re shooting “powder” from your gun but it drops to your feet? Imho, that is quite laugable. The animation does take kinda long to complete [just like cloak and dagger] but the only difference is that you can actually instant give cnd w/ steal. You should be able to use skill#5 black powder as though you are using infiltrator’s arrow. I think that makes a lot more sense then the current powder skill. Back to Headshot. the skill needs to get re-named or have a slight dmg buff imo. Headshot (along w/ black powder) does the most poor damage in the thieves weapon options. when i say poor, i mean having 55+ crit dmg along with 2k power, and only being able to do 200 dmg for headshot (and black powder). I’m not saying give them super buffed up damage, but when a fire sigil does more dmg then ur 4-6 initiative skill, you know something’s wrong there.

that being said, I will post the rest in that one topic explaining and comparing #4 and 5 skills. “Thief and their gameplay”… Yeah, u know? that one topic where thieves are saying warriors are more mobile then thieves (lol). But yeah, D/D: 4 out of 5 skills that does satisfying numbers. Best weapon choice for burst.

S/P is a very stationary weapon set. It is not particularly well suited for fighting players.

Keltset.4738:

I think the main reason you see less S/P in WvW is the lack of consistent stealth, especially when in melee range. When you can consistently hit a thief they are one of the easiest professions to kill, and you can only dodge so many attacks.
As for infiltrators strike the reason it’s 5 initiative is that it’s one of the only weapon skills (if not the only) that provides a stun breaker.

that is pretty true. But infiltrator’s strike does not break stun (bugged), but it does shadow return. The skill itself is pretty bugged atm, which is a shame really because on launch it was perfectly fine. Now sometimes you infiltrator’s strike doesn’t even work when you click on it, or it doesn’t shadow return you on command.. OR.. Upon infil striking, you can’t shadow return at all! These are only buggy sometimes.. but in crucial moments it screws you over so well.

bladie.5084:

Back to Headshot. the skill needs to get re-named or have a slight dmg buff imo. Headshot (along w/ black powder) does the most poor damage in the thieves weapon options. when i say poor, i mean having 55+ crit dmg along with 2k power, and only being able to do 200 dmg for headshot (and black powder). I’m not saying give them super buffed up damage, but when a fire sigil does more dmg then ur 4-6 initiative skill, you know something’s wrong there.

I honestly think pistol 5 is fine. While the damage is lackluster the blind is nice against any melee, as well as a combo field. As for pistol 4 I agree it could use an increase in damage OR an increase in daze time.

Tbh, black powder is a very selective skill against classes or against numbers of people. and it sucks when the skill cast takes 1/4 seconds to do so. (shooting at point blank should be insta gib imo.) Blind is nice but remember, it’s a condition (which can be easily removed). Now lets compare that to another #5 skill, cloak and dagger. Satisfying damage along w/ stealth. I don’t think there’s much to say there. really, there is no competition between pistol off hand and dagger off hand.

Lets not forget that black powder in a sense is inferior to P/W. With P/W i can 1/2 second stun, doing actual DPS, while evading physical projectile and melee. Which skill are you actually going to use when you’re in melee range? I’d go for [Pistol whip], majority of the time. 4 seconds of blind is as long as one normal p/w. How sad is that?

It rly sucks that S/D is starting to come up … I was one of the players who was using it when GC was the trend .. I liked being special …

s/d + p/p is just to much fun to pass up.

O really?
Well about time, S/D loses to no one :O!

Running S/D myself here.. it a pretty awesome combo, you feel like your contribution to fights have gonne alot more up.. Not to say it incredibly fun to see people just getting confused like hell with the constant blinking :P
One Con is that its so much slower than daggers.. but you get alot more fun being SD rather than DD.. I seriously got tirred of DD Glass 5 f1 1 combo.. Just no fun killing people so fast.. Definatly more epic fights with SD.. not to say alot more durable

Cornholio.1567:

Running S/D myself here.. it a pretty awesome combo, you feel like your contribution to fights have gonne alot more up.. Not to say it incredibly fun to see people just getting confused like hell with the constant blinking :P
One Con is that its so much slower than daggers.. but you get alot more fun being SD rather than DD.. I seriously got tirred of DD Glass 5 f1 1 combo.. Just no fun killing people so fast.. Definatly more epic fights with SD.. not to say alot more durable

The swing animation of sword #1 feels slow, but it’s a cleave. Everything else about the sword feels greasy fast for myself. Sword/dagger is the set that brought me to this game, it’s felt about the same since the betas and always I feel like I’m shedding a few layers when I go back to it after trying something else. I still pretty much only see D/D or P/D thieves though, mostly D/D in our matchups or at least the 6pm pacific playtime.

oZii.2864:

I am noticing less GC bs thieves though there are still some but for the most part I am seeing more P/D, S/D thieves lately. If they are D/D I am noticing alot more carrying S/D on them instead of SB. I don’t see alot of D/D condi spec thieves though. Few P/P thieves and a few D/P.

Right now just from my play experience lately I would say S/P is what I run into the least of all the thieves I see. You guys think S/P is fine or needs as much or more love than P/P?

Thieves play a fast game in WvW, otherwise we’re toast. S/P is too sluggish on the Pistol side of the set (PW without Haste is a nightmare because it’s so easy to see coming…) and doesn’t take advantage of the issue that WvW still has with Stealth. Headshot is borderline worthless imo, and Black Powder is alright but doesn’t really compare to C&D. Way I see it, that pretty much sums up why S/D > S/P atm.

It’s hard for a D/D to run a Condition spec because Death Blossom is such a nightmare with Initiative. Although doable, it seems to require a lot of Initiative regen speccing, is a bit less efficient than Sneak Attack—which lets you continue to abuse Stealth—and makes Backstab somewhat pathetic. P/D drops conditions and lets you Stealth up and be more patient with C&D instead of burning Initiative and pushing for the regen to get C&D back up again.

And there are fewer D/D GCs running around for 2 basic reasons:
a) it’s gimmicky. Sure, you faceroll someone, but then you have to get the kitten out of the way while the big boys fight so you don’t get facerolled yourself. Just not as helpful as other specs for your team.
b) people have by and large figured it out. Though we still see complainers on the forums, there is a large number or WvW vets that simply laugh at GC Thieves nowadays. After all, they’re the easiest to kill once you hit them… even if you can’t see them.

kash.9213:

The swing animation of sword #1 feels slow, but it’s a cleave. Everything else about the sword feels greasy fast for myself. Sword/dagger is the set that brought me to this game, it’s felt about the same since the betas and always I feel like I’m shedding a few layers when I go back to it after trying something else. I still pretty much only see D/D or P/D thieves though, mostly D/D in our matchups or at least the 6pm pacific playtime.

ye gotta love the cleave damage.. in and out of zergs is fun :P
Btw mind if i ask what build your running on yours S/D
Atm I am 10 30 10 20 0.. works pretty great.. but I still dont think I hit the full potential of this spec.. landing the daze is pretty tuff, thinking of specing the the 50 movement speed while in stealth just for it..

Fizzlepip.5218:

b) people have by and large figured it out. Though we still see complainers on the forums, there is a large number or WvW vets that simply laugh at GC Thieves nowadays. After all, they’re the easiest to kill once you hit them… even if you can’t see them.

Just for the lulz how do you counter, Assasin signet + bassilisk venom + haste combination?

When I play my thief I lead with S/p to catch people off guard and usually hit them really hard right off the bat then after I open I switch to D/D and finish the job , usually a heart seeker with a steal plus a back stab does the trick.

Cornholio.1567:

kash.9213:

The swing animation of sword #1 feels slow, but it’s a cleave. Everything else about the sword feels greasy fast for myself. Sword/dagger is the set that brought me to this game, it’s felt about the same since the betas and always I feel like I’m shedding a few layers when I go back to it after trying something else. I still pretty much only see D/D or P/D thieves though, mostly D/D in our matchups or at least the 6pm pacific playtime.

ye gotta love the cleave damage.. in and out of zergs is fun :P
Btw mind if i ask what build your running on yours S/D
Atm I am 10 30 10 20 0.. works pretty great.. but I still dont think I hit the full potential of this spec.. landing the daze is pretty tuff, thinking of specing the the 50 movement speed while in stealth just for it..

Fizzlepip.5218:

b) people have by and large figured it out. Though we still see complainers on the forums, there is a large number or WvW vets that simply laugh at GC Thieves nowadays. After all, they’re the easiest to kill once you hit them… even if you can’t see them.

Just for the lulz how do you counter, Assasin signet + bassilisk venom + haste combination?

always have your infiltrator’s strike already activated. So once u see a lil dmg, u can simply shadow return. a sword main hand will always have the advantage over d/d imo.

bladie.5084:

Cornholio.1567:

kash.9213:

The swing animation of sword #1 feels slow, but it’s a cleave. Everything else about the sword feels greasy fast for myself. Sword/dagger is the set that brought me to this game, it’s felt about the same since the betas and always I feel like I’m shedding a few layers when I go back to it after trying something else. I still pretty much only see D/D or P/D thieves though, mostly D/D in our matchups or at least the 6pm pacific playtime.

ye gotta love the cleave damage.. in and out of zergs is fun :P
Btw mind if i ask what build your running on yours S/D
Atm I am 10 30 10 20 0.. works pretty great.. but I still dont think I hit the full potential of this spec.. landing the daze is pretty tuff, thinking of specing the the 50 movement speed while in stealth just for it..

Fizzlepip.5218:

b) people have by and large figured it out. Though we still see complainers on the forums, there is a large number or WvW vets that simply laugh at GC Thieves nowadays. After all, they’re the easiest to kill once you hit them… even if you can’t see them.

Just for the lulz how do you counter, Assasin signet + bassilisk venom + haste combination?

always have your infiltrator’s strike already activated. So once u see a lil dmg, u can simply shadow return. a sword main hand will always have the advantage over d/d imo.

Or be quick on the stunbreaker. I like using shadowstep for this: shadowstep away, shadowstep back and attack him

Cornholio.1567:

ye gotta love the cleave damage.. in and out of zergs is fun :P
Btw mind if i ask what build your running on yours S/D
Atm I am 10 30 10 20 0.. works pretty great.. but I still dont think I hit the full potential of this spec.. landing the daze is pretty tuff, thinking of specing the the 50 movement speed while in stealth just for it..

In my experience (been S/D since I got to 80 in October) 10/30/30/0/0 works best. Acrobatics points are nice for a bit more speed, but the health regen in stealth is just game changing. It lets you completely dictate the pace of any given fight.

Also, try running directly at an enemy to land daze. If you are clipping through them, it counts as hitting from behind. If you are still having issues, try 0/30/30/10/0. Mug is great, but the healing in stealth is more important.

oZii.2864:

I am noticing less GC bs thieves though there are still some but for the most part I am seeing more P/D, S/D thieves lately. If they are D/D I am noticing alot more carrying S/D on them instead of SB. I don’t see alot of D/D condi spec thieves though. Few P/P thieves and a few D/P.

Right now just from my play experience lately I would say S/P is what I run into the least of all the thieves I see. You guys think S/P is fine or needs as much or more love than P/P?

You are such a Jinqueeta Fanboi!!

Tho not running full zerk gear is just admitting you have horrible reflexes

0/20/30/20/0 is my flavor s/d. Lose a good bit of damage but your attrition value goes through the roof.
I too have been s/d since the beginning.

Jinks.2057:

Tho not running full zerk gear is just admitting you have horrible reflexes

This is true in even numbers fighting, but with some tanky gear mixed in, you can harass a pretty big group of enemies by yourself. Sure, you don’t kill any of the 10 people, but you are keeping 10 people busy.

I still run full bezerker most of the time, but having a defensive set has its uses.

Cornholio.1567:

Atm I am 10 30 10 20 0.. works pretty great.. but I still dont think I hit the full potential of this spec.. landing the daze is pretty tuff, thinking of specing the the 50 movement speed while in stealth just for it..

I’m still 10/30/0/20/10. Not the best build in general, but worked for the gear I could afford (p/v/t armor+looted rune of the pack, zerker trinkets+looted rubies and weapons) and the variety of stuff I end up doing. I’d recommend people check out the builds posted on these forums if they can afford the precise gear they have planned and all of that.

Try to get yourself the muscle memory for landing your stealth strikes or everything in general, like playing a piano, to where you’re not thinking about. You’ll have to spend some time to make and remake a keymapping that makes sense (always change it when you think of a better layout).

Jinks.2057:

Tho not running full zerk gear is just admitting you have horrible reflexes

At times it seems you may be right, but other moments … A bit less attack is compensated with an extra swing, a bit less defence is compensated with a repair-stop.

One thing I think is important is to always have an escape ability. The choice is either stealth or mobility. Lately I’ve been using d/p and using the shadow arts X trait for initiative regen in stealth. With this setup a zerg can cruise right past and leave me unmolested. I’m finding this stealth build very survivable.

The other option for escape is mobility, and the weapons that help with that are dagger main hand or shortbow. Even if you run with acrobatic traits it is good to have at least one weapon for added mobility. Sword or pistol main hand do not offer much mobility. Sword does offer some with shadowstep but it is not spammable.

Early on I played a mobile thief but now I play a much more stealthy style. It allows longer fights because I can heal up in stealth without running away when at low health. D/p is key to this style.