Guild Wars 2

I enjoy playing the thief and generally across fantasy based games it’s the style I instantly gravitate towards. Now that I’ve reached level 80, there are a few things from a game design standpoint that I feel may have been overlooked or kept too generalized compared to all the classes.

The general idea around the play style is that this character type should be fast, agile, stealthy and hits hard – gets out. There are a number of mechanics in place already that accomplish this however I think there is some room for improvement or could use some thought.

• The dodge which is available to all characters should either have a much faster recharge or a higher amount (I’m not in game and I cannot think of the term that’s used for the ‘power’ you’re afforded). The main reason is that as a melee character with lighter armor and a lack of avoidance in this game (at least that I can tell) the dodge is one of your few ways that we can manage incoming damage. The play style of the thief should support this. Don’t get me wrong – this is a fun and interesting challenge. But I feel it’s too unstable in its current state.
• Avoidance. This is a staple for this kind of character class in almost any other game simply for the fact that while they rely on lighter armor they’re also less likely to get hit. From what I can tell now (granted I’ve not played other character classes) you could take a melee based warrior with heavy armor, get decent damage output but a butt load of extra health because they can wear heavy armor. The whole point of the thief wearing medium armor (and thus lower health) is that it has the avoidance to mitigate the incoming damage that a warrior just takes.
• Reuse timers on abilities. I feel like most all of these are a bit too long. Especially traps and poisons. Yes I know you can change your traits to allow for a faster recharge but it’s not really much at all and kind of waste compared to what’s also offered. I feel like most of these should be chopped by at least a 1/4th (preferably 1/3) and made consistent on reuse across the class of ability (e.g. all traps, poisons, assist creatures/mobs, etc. get the same reuse). Healing is the only one where I feel you’re pretty spot on because of the very different ways each heal works.
• This last one kind of combines all of those together. With the lack of a steady dodging ability, no avoidance and medium armor, being heavily melee based and slow reuse timers on supporting abilities (traps, poisons, etc.) the use of dodge becomes extremely difficult especially as you get higher in levels. How? You aggro everything around you because the distance you roll is so far. I’ve found that at in the higher level zones, mobs start getting closer and closer together. Actually I think that dodge should not be a roll at all and just make it a shadow step around the mob you are attacking instead (but also letting you avoid the incoming hit).

I think the full circle of avoidance, dodge and reuse timers needs to be thought out and tweaked a bit more on the thief class (may very well be others too – I have no idea).

And as one final thing about dodge. I think you need to make it a little less ‘touchy’ – and I mean this in two ways. 1) There are plenty of times where I mysteriously dodge when I do not want to and I end up going off a cliff or something else and 2) even the slightest bump in the environment and I get stuck going nowhere (effectively taking the damage that I should have been avoiding).

However the last can be fixed easily if you take the suggestion on making the dodge a shadow step (it seems to work pretty well however you only really get to use it much when you’re sword & dagger and I prefer 2 daggers).

On the topic of combat abilities – I’m actually pretty happy with these overall and I’ve experimented with all weapon combinations. However, I think some of the initiative needed for the final attacks (#5) needs to be drastically dropped down. Again, I’m not in game but from what I remember all of those are low damage and throw you into some form of retreat (smoke, mist, move away, etc.) and I consider them more of an “oh kitten” ability when you’ve got too much in front of you. Your last resort shouldn’t need an excessive amount of initiative in order to use. I understand that the purpose of making it so high is probably to keep from it being exploited but if that’s the case perhaps this last slot should be rethought completely.

Just my two cents, would love to hear some feedback/thoughts.

Check out Feline Grace. That along with things like roll for initiative and d/d#3 you can be evading a whole heluvalot.

Make sure you turn dodge on double tap off and bind it to a good key. That way you won’t do it randomly.

I love my thief man…so fun…love the infiltrator stuff on wvw…run deep into the middle of the bad guys, drop some caltrops and run back to my side…then watch 50 dudes limpin around not sure where to go..lol…dats really all i gots to say

1. There’s a UI option to disable the double-tap (e.g. you only dodge with a manual key).

2. L2p. You’re not playing the class effectively in GW2. If you think a particular utility is underpowered and needs a shorter cooldown, that’s one thing. But you realize you’re basically saying that the entire class is subpar?

@Stiv I had been using both of them. However I’ve been spending a lot of time in… I’m not in game so I can’t think of their names – Not all the way south and mostly center to the world map. Almost everything is related to the undead (70-80 content). Seeing as most of that is in ruins, I found that I was getting caught on little bumps and only doing flips and staying where I was instead. So I’ve been experimenting with other combinations – none of which I’m overly impressed with.

I also don’t think I’ve ever opened the settings other than to change the volume ha ha. But that being said 1) I’m using the default setting and it’s flaky so that’s an issue seeing as I would assume most people entering the game will be using this setting as well. 2) When you bind it to a key, do you have control over the direction? I feel like you’d end up pulling random mobs you don’t want to that way.

@FatFuzzy I’ve not touched PVP here yet. I left a pure PVP game and I need a break from the … colorful… attitudes that PVP can bring out in people.

Thief = HS spam.

EasymodeX.4062:

1. There’s a UI option to disable the double-tap (e.g. you only dodge with a manual key).

2. L2p. You’re not playing the class effectively in GW2. If you think a particular utility is underpowered and needs a shorter cooldown, that’s one thing. But you realize you’re basically saying that the entire class is subpar?

I never said the class was subpar. I simply stated that there were things I felt could use improvement. I also didn’t say that I didn’t enjoy the class. In fact I point out that I enjoy the challenge that dodge introduces. However, if it’s going to be a flaky system, shouldn’t that be addressed? If a class’ main form of defense is something that can easily get stuck on the environment and thus killing that defense or if that defense is constantly putting that character into other mobs, that’s an issue. So why don’t you l2r?

@Nkata…It’s actually not to bad, I do the wvw not so much the pvp, it’s usually off the hook and there’s not to many kids running around screaming and freaking out like they do. Sorrow’s furnace has a pretty good player base from what I’ve seen so far. But, Tbh…i’m already kinda bored w/ it., i get outta work and can go for an hour or so then i’m off to diablo land, or battlefield, or dead island or something. GW cool mmo tho

If you bind dodge to a key, whatever way you are moving when you hit that key, you will dodge in that direction. It’s much better than dbbl taping a key.

Go through settings and read each one. I have auto target turned off (for Heartseeker as movement, otherwise you go toward an enemy when you want to maybe run). Lots of default settings aren’t ideal. I can’t remember them right now but defiantly read through them, it’s worth the time.

@FatFuzzy Someone else was telling me pretty much the same thing about the PVP so I’ve been debating it as I too. I kind of feel like I leveled too fast and now I’m just poking around as to what to do next.

This is the first fantasy based game I’ve played in a long time. EQ2 was my last one and I stopped playing that like 5 years ago or so. Been playing mostly sci-fi based MMOs (who didn’t want to grow up and be an astronaut?

@Shiv I’ll definitely look at them tonight when I get home from work. I actually feel kind of silly that it hasn’t dawned on me to look in the key bindings.

Only problem with thief is when someone attempts to play it in a way it is not meant to be played. The class excels with hitting hard and quick and getting out. If you attempt to sit there and take shots, you will die a lot and cry underpowered. If you attempt to be the king of range dps, you will cry underpowered. However, if you learn how to be a jump in and out of fights and pick your fights well… Well… You’ll think you are a God.

Slight exaggeration aside, there are many times a night where I’ll feel unstoppable and joke with friends that thief is broken. Of course, they normally tell me how much they hate me as they are running back from the graveyard and somehow I didn’t die… again…

I never said the class was subpar. I simply stated that there were things I felt could use improvement.

You state that basically all of the utility abilities need to be on shorter cooldowns. Like I said, one or two may be a useful discussion, but saying that all your utilities are too slow = you’re probably just playing poorly.

In fact I point out that I enjoy the challenge that dodge introduces. However, if it’s going to be a flaky system, shouldn’t that be addressed? If a class’ main form of defense is something that can easily get stuck on the environment and thus killing that defense or if that defense is constantly putting that character into other mobs, that’s an issue.

Dodges are not the “Thief class main form of defense”. You’re bleeding D&D into GW2. Like I said above: you’re not playing a GW2 Thief.

Specifically, all classes in GW2 dodge. All classes are balanced around using dodge. Hell, Rangers have even better “dodge all the time” traits that are easier to access than Thieves.

Thieves use CC, burst, stealth, blinds to avoid damage. That, and several attacks provide bonus evasion.

Dodging is not a “THIEF MECHANIC” which you’re supposed to rely on for 100% of your survivability. Sure, you can augment it if you trait it up, but that is a build specific decision.

i was surprised as well when i found out that the thief has the same dodging ability with all the other classes.
i expected such a class type to have a higher endurance regeneration by default.

and i wouldnt mind having lower cooldowns on our abilities. but its ok.
and shadow refuge should reduce aoe dmg… srsly.

what annoys me very much is that most of our shadowstepping skills cant be used over gaps or on other platforms.

@Excidium I agree. I like the fact that the thief is made for that kind of attack. My big issue though is that I constantly get stuck on the environment and I don’t end up leaping/dodging out (effectively making the intended play of the thief pointless). Now granted, this may have something to do with the fact that I use double-tap to dodge. Regardless as I said before if this is the default behavior it’s an even bigger issue that attempting to dodge with a particular setting gets you stuck on the environment.

And I’m not talking about me running into a wall or a large step/block next to me. I’m talking about not even being able to see what’s preventing me from rolling away happening a good 75%+ of the time or it’s some little crack/fracture on the ground which would never actually prevent a person from rolling over it.

Dodge itself adds a very good likelihood of extra mobs. Which generally isn’t an issue – it’s just annoying. But it’s easy to get sucked into a multitude of mobs because of dodge (or your option is to stand there and take the hits which the thief is not meant to do). Which is why I bring up the other points: You’ve got reuses on other abilities that just sit there ticking away and if you want to use your escape features you’ve got to wait for initiative to build up. And really, I’d rather have poison/traps that do less but can be used frequently than ones that do a lot and I have to constantly wait on.

And I’m not complaining per se. I like the challenge of the thief I just feel like you get punished as you get into higher levels for playing your character the way it’s meant to be played.

@Easymodex So you’re effectively saying I have one way to play the thief (your way apparently). Don’t you think there is something wrong with that? Especially when you can easily find on the forums how versatile the other classes are. Why even bother giving the user options in that case.

I would rather have lower effect & shorter cool downs (mainly for effective mob management) than high effect & high cool down regardless of what class or game I am playing.

I’ve also never played D&D in any of its forms – so sorry, I’m not pulling its concepts into this game.