Guild Wars 2

It has been said that Thieves are “deadly in one-on-one combat,” yet they no longer live up that claim. Let us restore that ability. How? I give you a new Critical Strikes trait…

Easy Pickings

What does it do?
It awakens the Thief’s natural assassin’s abilities. When a lone Thief detects an opponent who is meandering in solitude, the Thief is able to place all of his focus on the poor, unfortunate soul. No distractions. No doubts. No fear. Only predator and prey.

Then, with a flash, blades slash and blood splash. The once strong warrior, barely able to stand, stares at his attacker in despair and sorrow. With futility, he swings his weapon. The assassin, feeling playful, easily evades the blows, then strikes twice more with pinpoint precision, slicing across each shoulder of his foe. In one last display of domination, the normally fragile Thief actually walks directly into the last-ditch swing of his helpless opponent. The attack was so weak, the armor stopped the weapon at contact. Accepting defeat, the forlorn fighter drops his weapon, his head, and to his knees. Having stolen his mark’s pride and hope, the Thief steps forward, places the point of his blade to the throat of the fallen, then proceeds to steal one last thing… his life.

How does it work?
When a Thief strikes an opponent, and there is not another player within a large distance of either (say a range of 2,000), the Thief “marks” the target. This mark remains until another player (from either side) enters within the set distance of the target or the Thief.

While the mark exists, the target’s ability to fight is directly connected with its health. When the target loses health, its offensive stats are reduced by the same amount. Power, Precision, Ferocity, Condition Damage… when health is full, they are at 100%. If health is at 83%, they are reduced to 83%. This holds true all the way down to 1%. Healing will improve both health and stats.

When another player enters within the set distance, the Thief loses focus, and the mark disappears, though the current stat levels remain until the health improves. Any further health loss will not result in reduction of stats.

If you want to get really nasty, why not reduce the target’s movement speed and endurance regeneration rate by the same percentage as well?

Why make this happen?
The Thief is the master of precision and surprise. Choosing to engage a lone target in the most unfair methods should have major advantages. As it stands now, a tanky guardian can withstand even the most brutal of opening bursts. Even if a Thief knocks such an armored foe down to 1%, the tank can turn around and counter with full power, completely downing the Thief with just a few sneezes. What good did that 99% opener do? It’s as though it didn’t even faze him!

With this change, that will no longer happen. If the target outplays the Thief, it can still win. If the opponent’s team rotates well, the target need only to survive until reinforcements arrive. However, if no one else joins the fray, then the Thief need only to whittle the target down little by little. With each strike, the target becomes less and less of a threat. In other words, the Thief has the ability to level the playing field… and to actually reverse it if played well.

Ps. Whether Thieves are immune to the marking of other Thieves is something yet to be discovered. While it could lead to some epic Thief duels… there are already epic Thief duels. Besides, Thieves are trained to fight even at death’s door… because they already live so close to it, so I wouldn’t think they would be so susceptible to such a marking.

PPs. Combining this Critical Strikes trait with Deadly Arts/DareDevil’s ability to apply Weakness would make this even more deadly! :-D

The real world need not apply to fantasy

Im not sure, if this is precisely the right way to go. But I sure like the idea, of boosting our capabilities based on the target we fight.
Meaning we could regain our ‘godlike’ status for duels (well, maybe not godlike, since its unhealthy for the game as whole) without changing anything at all for teamfights.
It is also a good attempt, to weaken the targets offensive not defensive, so they still have a chance to hold their ground, until help arrives.
Nice thinking here, a lot of potential.
But try working out some of the details. For example I would not make it a trait. Cause that trait would become a must-have for all builds that want to fight.
If somehow possible I would try to implement something similar in the class mechanics, but in a more indirect way.
I’d love to try and help you developing this, but I wont be having much time in the coming days.
You could also think about drastically increasing our endurance and ini regeneration if fighting only one target. That would fit the concept, fit our class better since active defense>passive defense. And also allow for better use of f.E. stealth against single targets. And most ini skills dont deal much damage, so it would still mostly be a defensive boost.

Kageseigi.2150:

Easy Pickings

What does it do?
It awakens the Thief’s natural assassin’s abilities. When a lone Thief detects an opponent who is meandering in solitude, the Thief is able to place all of his focus on the poor, unfortunate soul. No distractions. No doubts. No fear. Only predator and prey.

Then, with a flash, blades slash and blood splash. The once strong warrior, barely able to stand, stares at his attacker in despair and sorrow. With futility, he swings his weapon. The assassin, feeling playful, easily evades the blows, then strikes twice more with pinpoint precision, slicing across each shoulder of his foe. In one last display of domination, the normally fragile Thief actually walks directly into the last-ditch swing of his helpless opponent. The attack was so weak, the armor stopped the weapon at contact. Accepting defeat, the forlorn fighter drops his weapon, his head, and to his knees. Having stolen his mark’s pride and hope, the Thief steps forward, places the point of his blade to the throat of the fallen, then proceeds to steal one last thing… his life.

might have to lower the amount of words for this tool lip.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

might have to lower the amount of words for this tool lip.

Kageseigi.2150:

Easy Pickings

OP

How about this?
And: Can you make the lone assassin carve a J into the chest of the fearsome warrior – has always been my dream.

ETA: Which then fills with poison making it glowing green… Although blood and red would be ok too.
ETA²: Pros call this: Brutal Cheese.

That’s actually…not a bad idea.

It would need a bit of a rework but the concept is really cool.

I would say if there is not a target within 1200 range you mark them, and at the mark your stats get reduced at intervals.

at 100% hp: No stat loss

75% hp: 7% stat loss

50% hp: 15% stat loss

25%: 33% stat loss

Just my suggestion, but I do like the idea.

Serious: That would be OP – the enemy would become a sitting duck, unable to recover.
You can apply weakness, poison and chill and that would be what you’re looking for.

Asrat.2645:

I’d love to try and help you developing this

alchemyst.2165:

It would need a bit of a rework…
…stats get reduced at intervals.

Jana.6831:

You can apply weakness, poison and chill

Streamlining and making it simpler… it can definitely be done! Yes, I can see it be interval-based with boons and conditions.

When initially struck, a “Marked Prey” effect is applied to the target. The attacking Thief receives a “Deadly Predator” effect. While under these effects, based on the health interval of the target, a boon/condition is applied with a 1 second duration that pulses each second for the duration of the effects.

Based on the health percentage of the Marked Target
75%: Thief receives Swiftness

66%: Thief receives Protection

50% Thief receives Stability

33%: Target receives Weakness

25%: Target receives Slow

All intervals are cumulative. So when the target is below 25% health, all five effects are applied.

You could still apply effects that reduce Condition Damage received by the Thief dependent on the health interval if you wished.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

might have to lower the amount of words for this tool lip.

That’s true for the trait tool tip. But it may be advantageous to leave it so long on the “Marked Prey” tool tip. So by the time the target completely read it, he would already be dead ;-)

Jana.6831:

How about this?
And: Can you make the lone assassin carve a J into the chest of the fearsome warrior – has always been my dream.

ETA: Which then fills with poison making it glowing green…

Sure, why not? Though the letter would need to be customizable, and should probably default to the letter “Z” ;-)

Oh, and when the target’s health reaches zero, his head could explode and instantly die. Definitely not required, but it could be fun. Just throwing it out there :-)

Ps. Seriously, though… if this concept were implemented, instant death instead of simply downing the opponent would be preferably… at least in the case of Rangers and Necromancers! I hate getting into downed wars with them :-(

Ahhrg, boons. Protection. stability? What are we? Revenants?
Event tho I said I wouldnt, ive spent some more thought into it: the ‘mark’ should also be removed if 0 Targets are in range. meaning: if you screw up, despite your powers and disengage, you get punished.
Icd about 40-50 seconds, so you cant finish them of one by one as they come.

Asrat.2645:

Ahhrg, boons. Protection. stability?

The boons/conditions are simply an alternative to directly reducing stats.

Protection and Weakness come from their effects in relation to the target’s health.

When the target’s health is reduced by a third, Protection kicks in which reduces the damage the Thief takes by a third.

When the target’s health hit’s the 33% mark, Weakness is applied. That reduces critical damage by, what, 50%? And normal damage by 25%? Along with halving the target’s dodges.

The Swiftness, Stability, and Slow are there to give a larger sense of progression in crippling the target’s ability to fight effectively (rather than simple damage reductions), making it vital for the target to react quickly as soon as he notices the incoming attack. The more damage the target takes, the more important it is to heal up before using important skills like a stun.

This would simulate a proper ambush/assassination attempt. Hit hard and fast in order to debilitate your opponent. If the target survives, he is in a weakened state.

I’m not so sure about Slow, though. Chill may be a better effect as suggested. Or even Crippled.

Asrat.2645:

the ‘mark’ should also be removed if 0 Targets are in range. meaning: if you screw up, despite your powers and disengage, you get punished.
Icd about 40-50 seconds, so you cant finish them of one by one as they come.

Yeah, I was thinking of how to handle that. My thought being that if a Thief Stealths away, I don’t really want the target to know that. Maybe have it based on “combat range/cooldown?” Basically, if the Thief does run far enough away for long enough, he will automatically exit “combat mode.” The mark can disappear when he exits.

As for the cooldown and punishment, allow only one opportunity to mark a target during in each “combat session/mode.” As above, when the Thief exits combat mode, the ability to mark is reset. However, in order to successfully mark a target, the Thief MUST strike first. That is, marking a target cannot be done if already in combat. This provides the much needed counterplay. If a target sees you or gets lucky, he has the ability to avoid this altogether. If you want to go even further, do not allow a victim to be marked if he has the Thief selected as his target. This means that stealth and surprise are vital to the Thief’s success.

Health and stat reduction ratios could in no way be feasibly balanced at 1:1. Way too overpowered, and even drastically-reduced ones would need a lot of math done per class to justify such cuts; not to mention the change affects power builds more than say, condition ones.

It’d also be useless in PvP and PvE and would have pretty impractical uses in WvW since in these formats you’re almost always that close to another enemy, so justifying its use without it being blatantly overpowered on a per-situation basis would be immensely difficult.

The prospect of marking a target is a good idea, and is something a guildmember of mine (inspired by my Deadeye idea) is working out his own concept of involving a similar system.

DeceiverX.8361:

Way too overpowered

Hehe, I hope the thread title was enough of a warning :-P

Why bother making such discussions if they’re intended to be so ridiculous they’re not feasible? Just bumps legitimate suggestion threads down further on the page.

Unfortunately, feasibility and legitimacy are in the eyes of the Beholder. And in this general case, Anet is the only Beholder around. Not a comforting thought at all, I know. But perhaps, just perhaps, something we feel may be too “flashy” might catch at least one of its eyes. It’s happened before. Shiny!

Besides, the truly worst ideas aren’t actually the poor ones. The worst ideas are the ones that never get expressed, leaving untapped potential to die without even a chance to bloom.

I just wanted to say that I killed a chrono (gold rank) (three times) yesterday and a condi reaper (silver rank) on an ac in a camp (took a while) – guess he was really mad. Makes me actually wonder if I think thief is that bad or.. don’t know. I guess that what I have the most trouble with are blocks – the mesmer fortunately didn’t use the traits that make him passively block everything (yes, I still don’t know what traits that are) and well necros don’t have blocks.
I hit Guards/DHs for 8-9k in wvw – that’s why I said you’d give them no chance to recover with your idea. Problem: They have a lot of blocks.

Well we basically counter necros in many ways. And mesmers? well, they cant deal with stealth, sustained pressure and people avoiding their bursts. Try fighting an ele.

On topic: I would still stick to the concept of masively increased endurance regeneration. First: it is more active gameplay, second: If your enemy keeps up the pressure, you have to keep evading and cant attack back, third: It is potentially much stronger in the hands of an experienced player.
For the stealth part: well, either initiative or severely reduced cd on deception skills.
If I keep thinking about it: the ‘mark’ mechanic could become baseline, but does not really do anything.
You could then add traits to all lines that work with that ‘mark’. A stealth enchantement from shadow arts, an endurance enchantement from acrobatics, ini regen from trickery….and so on.
Every trait taken increases either the cooldown or the ‘detection range’ so you cant amass them and specializing in one or maybe two is more beneficial.

D/D power thief here – come again?
I can’t fight classes/builds that have too many blocks, like I said, that’s why I said that maybe working on a counter to that would be the way to go.

D/D as a set struggles against mesmers running popular PU (Chaos + Illusions) due to the plethora of ways to mitigate/prevent CnD without the thief burning massive amounts of initiative, critical utilities, or standing around waiting while getting pounded on.

It’s a lot easier on D/P where one effectively has the counters necessary to kill the mesmer; ranged damage/engage to avoid their blind on evasion/The Pledge blind (SS), channel interruption (Headshot), and on-demand sustained stealth at range to bait and negate skills like shatters.

Also, condi reaper is just straight up OP. Power is fine. Condi though is in no way a remotely balanced build against anything but thief due to Daredevil/Dash.

Asrat.2645:

If I keep thinking about it: the ‘mark’ mechanic could become baseline, but does not really do anything.
You could then add traits to all lines that work with that ‘mark’. A stealth enchantement from shadow arts, an endurance enchantement from acrobatics, ini regen from trickery….and so on.

Ah, so it will be more about strengthening the Thief’s natural abilities instead of weakening the enemy. And would boons be a frowned way of doing so? Without boons, I guess we’d have possibilities like this…

(Example is for simplicity, not balance)

Deadly Arts: Utilites cool down at twice the rate
Critical Strikes: Critical hits that are blocked (or would do no damage) do non-critical damage instead
Shadow Arts: Revealed duration is halved
Acrobatics: Endurance regeneration rate is doubled
Trickery: Initiative regeneration rate is doubled

Numbers would need to be worked on, but is that the basic concept?

Hmm, trying to think of other options for the trait lines…

Deadly Arts: Poison does not reduce your healing rate
Critical Strikes: Ferocity affects normal hits
Shadow Arts: Can only be self-Revealed
Acrobatics: Cannot be critically hit (all hits are normal hits)
Trickery: Stuns/Damage cannot be reflected (Retaliation, Mirror of Anguish, Reaper’s Protection, etc.)

Jana.6831:

I guess that what I have the most trouble with are blocks – the mesmer fortunately didn’t use the traits that make him passively block everything

What I REALLY hate are passives that make me hurt myself. As listed above, Mirror of Anguish and Reaper’s Protection drive me insane! As far as I’m aware, I can’t tell if anyone has those traits until I stun them. And if they do, it’s too late for me to take off Sleight of Hand in PvP. It’s bad enough when I’m running my normal build with stun breakers. But when I’m using a condi or trapper build or something like that, my own stuns do more harm to me than my opponent. I suppose it’s even worse with Dagger/Dagger builds that rely on Stealing to get Cloak and Dagger to hit.

Some of those Sound extremely interesting. Extremely op, but that is something that could be worked on.
For starters:
Critical strikes#1 sounds pretty good.

Deadly arts: ‘trickery#2’. I like the idea of not having to deal with retaliation. But maybe its a bad idea to invent a counter to our counter…

Shadow arts: decrease the cooldown of deception abilities by 60?% (maybe merge with concealed defeat)

Acrobatics: gain endurance (static amount) if you hit a marked target.

Trickery#1 but only ‘x1,5’ meaning 1 initiative/2sec or perhaps even less.

A lot of what you ask for is pretty powerful. (a lot of what I ask for too^^) I really want us to become a strong dueling class again, but we have to keep in mind, that a lot of the op choices will probably be nerfed soon. We should ask for reasonable buffs, not for powercreep. Also since we are able to choose our opponent, we can never be completely unbeatable in 1v1

Asrat.2645:

Deadly arts: ‘trickery#2’. I like the idea of not having to deal with retaliation. But maybe its a bad idea to invent a counter to our counter…

I can see the reason to not allow that with Retaliation. Because the target is taking damage also. But I do wish to be able to “counter a counter” in other aspects. For example, Mirror of Anguish… I’m fine if my Stun is simply negated by the trait. But please don’t let me stun myself. Just don’t stun anyone. I’d be happy with that.

Along with that, being able to negate reflected projectiles and burning from Amplified Wrath would be very nice. In those cases, no one would be taking damage.

Asrat.2645:

Shadow arts: decrease the cooldown of deception abilities by 60?% (maybe merge with concealed defeat)

I was thinking about each trait line being able to lower the cooldown of a specific type of utility, though I couldn’t fit all of them thematically…

Deadly Arts: Traps/Venoms
Critical Strikes: Signets
Shadow Arts: Deception/Venoms (why are venom traits in SA anyway?)
Acrobatics: ?
Trickery: Tricks
DareDevil: Physical

I guess you could put a Steal rate reduction in Acrobatics, but it seems to fit Trickery more.

Asrat.2645:

Acrobatics: gain endurance (static amount) if you hit a marked target.

Ah, there you go. Gain more dodges the more you hit the target. I wonder if you could do the same with initiative. Maybe 25% chance to gain 1 initiative every critical hit?

Asrat.2645:

I really want us to become a strong dueling class again, but we have to keep in mind, that a lot of the op choices will probably be nerfed soon.

Oh, that’s fine. At least it’s better to actually be powerful enough where nerfs are justified. It’s definitely better than being in a position where buffs are justified! :-D