Guild Wars 2

Another day, another thread like this. Move a long, nothing to see.

Anatol.4193:

THIEF is total OP class for little noobs who are only able to push 4 buttons in correct order.. omg arena net sucks in this class so much…
every noob thief has invis for XY second, so many evades and OP DMG. You cry you have low HP? you nooobs…. you are 3/4 of combat in invis and evades every attack. This class need nerfs

SPvP ( hot join ) min. 6 thiefs from 16 players LOL…. easy to play for noobs and OP… + 4 players are mesmers and rest classes are for rest 6 players

when I see thief I only see noob with no skill. but this class is only way how this noob can kill somebody. I will laught when they nerf this kitten class HAHA

I hear 100 Blades takes skill too. I can direct you to the warrior subforums so you can cry about another 4-skill wonder build. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior

Mesmers can kitten well nearly annihilate someone in 4-5 seconds as well. Here’s their forums: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer

I’m sure the other professions have glass cannon OP builds as well. I’m too lazy to look them up and to link their respective forums.

Funny thing is, I doubt you even know why the builds are OP. (Hint: most have something in common regardless of class.)

Fiennes.9568:

Another day, another thread like this. Move a long, nothing to see.

You won’t find many threads like this in the elementalist forum.

And yes. Thieves have stupid burst.

Thieves got stupid burst? Well… if you really believe that, roll one, make a full dps build and join tournaments. Two things will happen:

1. you will be able to kill some players which are new to the game, unaware of the combat situation, already low on health (add more reasons…) and even pump out some high damage numbers

2. you will die often to the more experienced players and will notice, that your “burst” is laughable compared to the ability-chains other classes can use. If you are out of initiative —> no burst. Think of it.

Just another “OP” thread. Move along… nothing to see here.

I play thief as my main and have no real alts. I’d say the original point is over-stated and melodramatic, but I do think there are a couple of OP Thief builds.

Backstab build – stealth, immob/backstab, HS to death. Can reliably kill people in a tiny amount of time before they have any time to react or anyone can intervene.

PW build – stack buffs, immob, PW. Also kills people too quickly with no chance for them to react.

People state various counters for these builds, but all the counters are impractical in a fast-moving, multi-participant environment. If the counter requires you to be completely devoting your time to not getting backstabbed, then the thief has won anyway.

I realise that these builds require compromises elsewhere, like hit points and general survivability. I also realise that both builds are not for key mashers. They do require timing and skill. But personally I don’t think either of those facts mitigates the over-poweredness.

The burst on these skills might need to be capped or reduced.

you cant evade backstab

the moment you see thief he already used steal and you are turned to stone by his venom, no breaking stun skills work and you cant move, then he uses backstab and poof you are dead

no skill required at all and no way to counter it

now someone will tell me evade the steal
you cant evade instant cast skills that instantly teleport thief to you and hit you in less than a 0.1 sec

saurus.8290:

you cant evade backstab

the moment you see thief he already used steal and you are turned to stone by his venom, no breaking stun skills work and you cant move, then he uses backstab and poof you are dead

no skill required at all and no way to counter it

now someone will tell me evade the steal
you cant evade instant cast skills that instantly teleport thief to you and hit you in less than a 0.1 sec

No, you can’t avoid an instant cast skill like steal off of pure reaction, but what you’re talking about is the C&D → steal → backstab combo. C&D Has a distinct, fairly slow animation that is easy to see, and thus is easy to avoid. If he ueses that animation from a distance, he’s going to steal you.

The problem with thieves, and mesmers, is stealth, or clones, has lag to it. Every time you exit stealth or create a new clone, there’s a 3 second lag where the character is still fading in, meaning they are pretty much untargettable for those 3 seconds. This affects mesmers more than thieves, imo, as that is exactly why it is so hard to fight mesmers right now.

^As Loki said, I believe I might actually have a screenshot like this, where the thief broke stealth, and I have the target indicator over him, but he did not appear on screen. This is a major issue, which causes me to die from thieves, even though I play a thief. Because 3 seconds of not actually seeing someone, is 3 seconds they can break stealth, hit haste, and spam Heartseeker, and that 3 seconds with haste is all you need to get off 5 HS’s. >.>

That said, there was one time I was capping Waterfall, saw a thief running up. I had seen this thief earlier in the fight, and new she used the Devourer > Steal > Haste > Pistol Whip combo. So, I dodged as soon as I expected the steal. And there she was just slashing…at the air.

Turned around, CnD > Steal > Assassin’s Signet > Backstab, dead. Funny kitten. But yeah, you can be dodging mid-steal, they’ll port but the actual hit, (Mug) trait, wont connect I believe. After that the venom (Basilisk, or Devourer) will be used, as it’s per attack. Not only when the attack lands.

Pistol Whip will be needed to hit fast before your opponent breaks it, so they will probably go into that without seeing if it landed, as I described above. Therefore, their 2nd charge of Devourer, is used up as they slash into the wind.

Ergo, yes, you can evade steal… The proof is in the fact that I was not immobilized when expecting to get Pistol Whipped…

“You won’t find many threads like this in the elementalist forum.
And yes. Thieves have stupid burst.”

Most likely because the majority of people playing the profession are not very good. A good Ele is a god.

“That said, there was one time I was capping Waterfall, saw a thief running up. I had seen this thief earlier in the fight, and new she used the Devourer > Steal > Haste > Pistol Whip combo. So, I dodged as soon as I expected the steal. And there she was just slashing…at the air.
Turned around, CnD > Steal > Assassin’s Signet > Backstab, dead. "

You’re obviously lying, seeing as how Steal has a ~30-45 second cooldown, and seeing as how the steal would both be redundant and break the stealth from CnD.

use venom before fight
use steal (venom recharged becouse of trait)> stealth> c&d > stealth> backstab > target dead if target still alive becouse he running thougnes vit build finish him with skill spam

repeat

while having 100% crit chance becouse of Hidden Killer trait
and +20% more dmg from traits only

no way to counter it

4 buttons you say? That’s 3 more than most people claim.

The trait that recharges his skills, only has a 20% chance of recharging the venom. Which means only 1 of the 5 fights he’s in, it’ll work.
This means that if you encounter a thief that just starts attacking a friend of yours, attacking him in the back will give you 30 seconds time to beat him.
Counter? Kill him in time

Also, evading a backstab isn’t that hard. Even though he’s stealthed, it’s not hard to know how he’ll position himself. Always have a stunbreaker in case he uses devourer. If he’s using basilisk (petrify) … well then you’ll have to endure his first attacks. But read first paragraph, he’ll only have 20% chance of using it after a last fight. Otherwise he’ll have to wait at least 35 seconds.

Once you can stop one of his attacks. Freeze the thief, fear him, kd him. All ways to counter him from killing you. A thief isn’t op’d. Learn how they fight and counter it.

Simple solution for the insanely huge burst – delete Assassin’s signet and Haste from the game – problem solved.

No, the OP has it right. I know you guys get hammered with these threads but there really is a reason for it. In WvW, Thief catches you you’re dead. Then as your friends try to help you, the Thief is gone. Just… gone. It’s DAoC rogue classes all over again and I’m really unhappy that Anet brought them back. WTF are these MMO companies thinking?

From my combat log about 10 minutes ago. I’m alt tabbing to manually type this out:

6449 Steal
1350 Double Strike
7473 Cloak and Dagger
2164 Lightning Strike
1339 Double Strike

18775 points of damage and I didn’t even see him until I was downed. That’s an issue and one that needs serious looking at. You’re kidding yourself if you think any of this is okay.

Well, seeing as some of you guys aren’t very skilled players I will give you the benefit of a doubt. However, for those players that are good and do have high skill cap like me only then you will realize there is nothing wrong with Thief. But don’t let me tell you this, just watch this, this shows the general way of dealing with a Thief.
We do have weaknesses, it’s not as OP and easy as half of you idiot’s claim, it’s not oh we go invis-backstab-HS and we win 100%. Stop whining, making accusations, and l2p.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq8BJrmrUaU

Too much of everything rolled into one whilst being painfully easy to play.

Its obvious the nerf is coming.

No nerf is incoming. You are all whining about haste basilisk and steal which are all on ludacrisly long cooldowns, and can be used only once per encounter.

And on top of that, there would be no reason to play a Thief if you take away their burst, because that is all they bring to the table, if they have no burst, they become underpowered and are already extremely ludacrisly squishy.

A thief kills 1 person quick that is bad and doesnt dodge or kite. I don’t understand how people can be so bad? I mean, I have fought every class, and the better players can get it right, and time dodges negating my opener, and kite my steal.

But you always have the majority, which happens to be the less skilled population, the bads, whine and want nerfs to offset their lack of skill, when in fact, the class is already working as intended and balanced.

And the devs better realize this, because here is the fork in the road that makes or breaks MMOs, when they introduce that first big class balance patch. They better think hard of the consequences, or they will label themselves as “just another MMO company that listens to the less skilled population and imbalances classes”.

More people saying something doesnt = correct. And you cannot balance a game around the less skilled players. You balance on what can happen, within reason. And the funny thing, is this game doesn’t take much to be skilled.

This games hotbar system is ridiculously small. You only have a few LIMITED skills you can use. At max, what? 10 hotkeys? And you can’t get it right? Many other MMOs I have used over 30 hotkeys.

Martym, how exactly was I supposed to dodge any of that. I heard the buzz of the lightning strike and I was downed. I had no time to do anything at all. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that I was able to somehow know this was all going to happen and in a tenth of a second get a good dodge in. Then what? Seriously, then what? Run? Can’t. Hide? Can’t. Try to do anything at all to the Thief? POOF! Stealth. Gone.

It’s easy to say all this. “He’s bad”. “He should have dodged”. “Blah blah blah” when you’re not on the receiving end of this crap. And that’s what it is. Crap. I showed you above how exactly a blink and your dead happened to me. Go ahead and justify it in your mind all you like, but you’re fooling yourself into thinking that this is okay. I can only hope ANet get’s some sort of a wake up call to this and does something about it.

Martym.6971:

No nerf is incoming. You are all whining about haste basilisk and steal which are all on ludacrisly long cooldowns, and can be used only once per encounter.

And on top of that, there would be no reason to play a Thief if you take away their burst, because that is all they bring to the table, if they have no burst, they become underpowered and are already extremely ludacrisly squishy.

A thief kills 1 person quick that is bad and doesnt dodge or kite. I don’t understand how people can be so bad? I mean, I have fought every class, and the better players can get it right, and time dodges negating my opener, and kite my steal.

But you always have the majority, which happens to be the less skilled population, the bads, whine and want nerfs to offset their lack of skill, when in fact, the class is already working as intended and balanced.

This, it’s a thief guys seriously that in itself should explain it. Thieves, rogues, assassins, etc are all about taking down your opponent as fast and as soon as possible with no room for error cause they know they can be easily kill in less than 5sec (especailly by a warrior, they scare me everytime I appraoch). So the whining is pointless it’s how the mechanics of this class works and if you don’t like it…well nothing I can say but deal with it.

@ Brogarn – You listed a combat log of him performing a steal > double strike> CnD > then the buzz of the lightning strike.

That is 3 globals you had time to react, which is 3 seconds not including time you prep for the incoming BEFORE he jumps on you.

You absolutely had plenty of time to react, and thank you for proving my point of bad players will always whine.

That’s all I needed to see, was that combat log, then Brogarn saying he “didn’t have time to react”, which is obviously a joke.

I’m back to the game, have a great day.

blink.4239:

Joric.5376:

Thieves got stupid burst? Well… if you really believe that, roll one, make a full dps build and join tournaments. Two things will happen:

1. you will be able to kill some players which are new to the game, unaware of the combat situation, already low on health (add more reasons…) and even pump out some high damage numbers

2. you will die often to the more experienced players and will notice, that your “burst” is laughable compared to the ability-chains other classes can use. If you are out of initiative —> no burst. Think of it.

Just another “OP” thread. Move along… nothing to see here.

I wouldn’t know about sPVP because I don’t play that garbage. I have full exotic gear with a health dose of toughness and was 3-shotted by a thief using backstab. It is absolutely kitten just how little skill that requires.

so what do you play? anet said they will not balance around wvwvw

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Well that was a refreshing post.

If you can’t beat a Thief, then you also can’t beat a dungeon.
It’s called skill.

You need to learn animations, and you need to learn to react incredible fast to avoid
crucial attacks with the awesome tool given to you, namend dodge.

As far as I’m concerned, PvP (the classes) and PvE (open world, story and dungeons) are all fine in balance difficulty, you just can’t suck.

There are some problems with Mesmer portals on certain maps etc., but otherwise the balance is in a pretty good place.

And honestly, the pro scene would laugh extensively at the OP and the rest of the QQ’ers in this thread, if they would read the crap you guys type.

I at least do.

OP is reported for simply trolling/QQ’ing with no intentions of a discussion, which the forum is for.

blink.4239:

Joric.5376:

Thieves got stupid burst? Well… if you really believe that, roll one, make a full dps build and join tournaments. Two things will happen:

1. you will be able to kill some players which are new to the game, unaware of the combat situation, already low on health (add more reasons…) and even pump out some high damage numbers

2. you will die often to the more experienced players and will notice, that your “burst” is laughable compared to the ability-chains other classes can use. If you are out of initiative —> no burst. Think of it.

Just another “OP” thread. Move along… nothing to see here.

I wouldn’t know about sPVP because I don’t play that garbage. I have full exotic gear with a health dose of toughness and was 3-shotted by a thief using backstab. It is absolutely kitten just how little skill that requires.

It takes alot more skill than you think, backstabing requires precision, postioning, and timing which all has to be done within 3-4secs and if you miss a backstab you’re screwed. I remember when I was a newbie theif and tried to backstab someone while they where moving all over the place I missed the backstab and got destoryed. But eventually I got better at playing my theif and now I can backstab flawlessly…..see skill is a key factor regardless, good day to you sir.

Hi,

as this conversation seems to have run its course, the thread will now be locked.

Thanks for your contributions.