Guild Wars 2

cyyrix.6105:

Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but it looks like a major nerf inc. for Shadow’s Embrace (1 condi removed every 10s in stealth instead of every 3s). Will be interesting to see if that’s counter-buffed somehow.

(Dev hovers over the tooltip at 33:47 into the stream)

This and sword nerf are the real problems the ranger reveal is poorly implemented and will not be a problem.

Terrahero.9358:

evilapprentice.6379:

“Sic em cannot be dodged” – I didn’t get a chance to watch the whole stream earlier (stopped after thief), and I just caught this watching the vid.

An unavoidable skill that locks a class mechanic…sigh Anet, just Sigh.

Stealth isnt your class mechanic.

Engineers have stealth, Mesmers have stealth, Rangers have stealth. Any smuck that happens across a smoke-field with a leap or blast has stealth.

Thief class mechanic is Intitiative.

And its not like you are suddenly the only one that has to deal with a counter. Example, i got an HgH Alchemy build. Its traitline is about boons and stacking boons, guess what, boons have a counter. Just like your stealth.

Ofcourse the counter to boons is far more abundant and far more severe. Rather then just, not being able to stealth for 4seconds (which is a reveal + 1sec) from 1 single ability on a long cooldown. I loose several cooldowns worth of stacking, across several cooldown cycles. To a spammable ability. Or one that cannot fail. Or even someone that picked up a certain sigil.

You have no right to complain. Its a joke that Stealth has gone so long without any counter as it is.

According the official website (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/)

The following are part of thief class mechanic:
- the resource system: Initiative
- signature move: Steal
- special skills: Stealth skills, Shadowstep skills, and Dual skills.

So yes, stealth is part of the class mechanic and if u play the class, u know it’s a big,… no, huge part of it.

Other classes have access to stealth, sure, but they are nowhere as good as thieves, and they shouldn’t anyway.

Karolis.4261:

I dont think you realise how hard SE nerf is. SE internal cooldown dont reset each time u enter stealth.

Actually I do know about the consequences, but I can’t really tell where this nerf is coming from (it has to be WvW related, cuz noone uses SA in sPvP/tPvP anyway). The trait itself is fine, because you have to meet certain preconditions to remove a condition (stealth), what definitely isn’t fine and not working as intended is that d/p pushes the trait way over the top, as they can stealth without fulfilling any preconditions, making them almost immune to condis.

It’s not really my concern anyways, as I’m not using the SA trait line, but still do fine against condition builds, but I’m with you that this is a weird change, if they wanna adress d/p in WvW, this isn’t the right way, cuz it harms other weaponsets aswell.

I play mostly WvW and a stealth/condi removal thief (quite tanky, I have actually Guardians laughing at me for making 0 damage to them I PROMISE I CANT ONE HIT OR EVEN TWO HIT YOU QQers!). Even with the stealth removal trap and arrow carts mastery and all this existing reveals going on, it is ridiculous how easy I melt without stealth. Basically this 4 sec are enough for conditions to down me.

It is going to be interesting, I imagine all the rangers are gonna skill this in WvW (as thieves are so hated because it is difficult to kill a stealth build) and I am gonna run around being squishy.^^

Might just play warrior (like everyone in WvW) because I AM SO TIRED OF CHANGING MY BUILD AFTER EVERY UPDATE! Because it means new armor, new weapons, new sigils, and now with the ascended stuff it is even more tiring. -.-

btw making a class stealth dependent and nerf stealth utility traits is indeed a great move.
Full of genius the dev team, huh?
And keep buffing warriors, they are indeed a priority!

Nerfing perma stealth thieves is fine, but I don’t see the point of nerfing this useful trait in the condimeta instead of infusion of shadow with an ICD for example.
However, anet should remember that we had several nerfs and we seriously need some improvements to be viable in more aspects of the game.

Pistolwhip for example. It roots you!?! A thief with a root that is not moving even if it is evading will be dead in a few after that. As a thief you have to keep moving, positioning, anticipate on incoming people. You can’t stay at one place. Why not make it so that you can move while using it? It is easy to evade with one dodge through the thief, It won’t be OP in PvE or atleast more OP than warriors. The S/P set has not access to stealth so it wouldn’t be have the stealth S/D has. It will, however, give thieves an extra really viable weapon set.

If the 10 second CD on SE is real, it may be there is change to another trait that perhaps, lowers this CD. They did say they were re-working some traits and abilities.

It also may be a mistake. It is Anet, after all.

Fade.7658:

If the 10 second CD on SE is real, it may be there is change to another trait that perhaps, lowers this CD. They did say they were re-working some traits and abilities.

It also may be a mistake. It is Anet, after all.

10 seconds CD on Shadow’s Embrace only encourages D/P perma-stealth. I cannot see how this is a reasonable change on its own without some other factor affecting (reducing) it.

As with all things Arena Net, the only thing to do is wait until patch hits and verify changes. :(

mrmadhaze.8706:

btw making a class stealth dependent and nerf stealth utility traits is indeed a great move.
Full of genius the dev team, huh?
And keep buffing warriors, they are indeed a priority!

Of course they are warrior is the most played class after all ><;

They also stated that they are trying to make the thief better, support-wise. Maybe there’s another condi removal they’re adding, or modifying.

I suspect that it’s a nerf, plain and simple, though. It won’t be too bad a nerf, if every time you enter stealth, one is removed, (which I find very possible) but not being able to cleanse that second condi will suck, especially with how easily condis are being applied nowadays.

So months of waiting and setting a new hard counter for thieves without buffing thieves in return.

read the notes…..nothing I see allows us to be better in support. The only thing I see that catches my attention is the stealth nerf to our SE

I just tested Shadow’s Embrace. It removes a condi every time you enter stealth. I haven’t tested the interval portion as of yet.

Did anyone else notice that Bassy Venom got nerfed into the ground? It’s one redeeming feature was that you couldn’t stunbreak the petrify…And entire subset of thieves relied on that.

Fade.7658:

I just tested Shadow’s Embrace. It removes a condi every time you enter stealth. I haven’t tested the interval portion as of yet.

So the ICD resets if you leave and re-enter stealth less than 10 seconds later?

Fade.7658:

I just tested Shadow’s Embrace. It removes a condi every time you enter stealth. I haven’t tested the interval portion as of yet.

so essentially the CD resets upon exiting stealth. Well I don’t see then how this is….helping other classes against us. Most D/P thieves tend to go in and out of stealth rapidly to begin with.

I just tested the interval portion. It does indeed take at least 10 seconds to remove a second condition while in stealth.

I used Shadow Refuge, and it honestly looked like the interval timing started at 3 seconds AFTER I entered stealth. I was in stealth for ~14seconds, and the second condition didn’t even get cleansed, it fell off due to duration ending.

Fade.7658:

I just tested Shadow’s Embrace. It removes a condi every time you enter stealth. I haven’t tested the interval portion as of yet.

1 cnd every 10 seconds, it’s stated in the tooltip of the trait.

I just tested again in sPvP standing in middle of caltrops & perma stealthing, 2 conditions every 3s (dunno where that 2nd cure came from tbh :/)

Sceinna.3561:

I just tested again in sPvP standing in middle of caltrops & perma stealthing, 2 conditions every 3s (dunno where that 2nd cure came from tbh :/)

I tried it now to be sure, it seems you’re right, in sPvP we get 1 condition cleansed every 3 seconds of stealth (with 1 condition cured as soon as we enter stealth).

Bug or intended?

Galandil.9641:

Sceinna.3561:

I just tested again in sPvP standing in middle of caltrops & perma stealthing, 2 conditions every 3s (dunno where that 2nd cure came from tbh :/)

I tried it now to be sure, it seems you’re right, in sPvP we get 1 condition cleansed every 3 seconds of stealth (with 1 condition cured as soon as we enter stealth).

Bug or intended?

Tooltip Bug. More Info here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Shadow-s-Embrace/first#post3027588

Sword/Pistol was super nerfed.
Pistol whips stun now lasts half as long. It cannot hold anyone which means it struggles far more than ever to get damage

Galandil.9641:

Sceinna.3561:

I just tested again in sPvP standing in middle of caltrops & perma stealthing, 2 conditions every 3s (dunno where that 2nd cure came from tbh :/)

I tried it now to be sure, it seems you’re right, in sPvP we get 1 condition cleansed every 3 seconds of stealth (with 1 condition cured as soon as we enter stealth).

Bug or intended?

Im pretty sure thats d/p and its pulsing stealth perk, it allso heals double every 3d tick (dunno if it used before). Its hard to notice it w/o any long conditions but im pretty sure CnD still removes 2x conditions in 4s time.

ensoriki.5789:

Sword/Pistol was super nerfed.
Pistol whips stun now lasts half as long. It cannot hold anyone which means it struggles far more than ever to get damage

The tooltip always states 1/2 sec for the stun, I tried it and to me it seems that the stun lasts 0.5 secs, did you try it and you counted only 0.25 secs?

@evilapprentice: tnx for the link.

ensoriki.5789:

Sword/Pistol was super nerfed.
Pistol whips stun now lasts half as long. It cannot hold anyone which means it struggles far more than ever to get damage

Due to the sigil of paralyzation fix?

Karolis.4261:

Im pretty sure thats d/p and its pulsing stealth perk, it allso heals double every 3d tick (dunno if it used before). Its hard to notice it w/o any long conditions but im pretty sure CnD still removes 2x conditions in 4s time.

Huh, no, I tried a simple setup vs the engi npc in the mist, with just 15 in SA and using Blinding Powder I got Vulnerability and Bleeding both removed just 1 second before BP ended. No d/p at all, I had s/p equipped.

Galandil.9641:

ensoriki.5789:

Sword/Pistol was super nerfed.
Pistol whips stun now lasts half as long. It cannot hold anyone which means it struggles far more than ever to get damage

The tooltip always states 1/2 sec for the stun, I tried it and to me it seems that the stun lasts 0.5 secs, did you try it and you counted only 0.25 secs?

@evilapprentice: tnx for the link.

I guess you only started playing the game so I’ll let you know the situation.
All Stuns and Dazes rounded up to the nearest second, this is how the game has played out for more than a year now (this existing into the beta’s and possibly the alphas but I wasnt in the alpha).
This meant if a daze was .25s it would round up to 1 second but even with stun duration increases such as paralyzation and rune of the mesmer, it would never be able to round up to .25s. This is what they knowingly used against Tactical Strike (Sword stealth attack) in spvp back in November. They changed it from 2s to 1.5s so that it in reality was still a 2s daze, but you could never increase it to 3s.
Pistol whip was 0.5s, but because of how the game worked that meant it was a 1 second stun.

Now this affects skills like headshot but headshots inherit purpose is to interrupt a skill, which is continues to do just fine regardless of it lasting 1 second or not. It fits its role.
Pistol whip holds a target down momentarily so you can get some (not all) of the damage, with teamwork, utility skills, sigils or strong positioning being used to get the full damage. At 0.5s it does not hold a target. Essentially if you press pistol whip now and blink, when you open your eyes the stun is already over and they are moving. It can’t function against players anymore. Secondly because the stun doesn’t last as long and your invulnerability still start at a fixed point they actually break out before the stun occurs. It remains to be tested but this now leaves room for Runes of Melandru for instance to put pistol whip to 0.25s in scaling, which means even after stunning someone they’ll be interrupt you with non-instant skills. It is completely unfeasible outside of PvE now, and even in PvE will become significantly more questionable.

@maugetaurr that’s exactly it. The Fix to sigil of paralyzation is to change the way the game handles stun and daze which effects every skill with that property. Essentially meaning pistol whip is a self-root without the power of hundred blades, the projectile reflection, range and tracking of zealot defense, the total immunity of Blurred frenzy and a mere .5s stun at the end of a ~.75s cast.
R.I.P all S/P thieves.

S/P was nerfed to oblivion, what the hell. Here goes my favorite spec since release getting hit once again for no reason whatsoever.

I give anet 2 patch max before nerfing devourer venom to 1s immobilize instead of 2, , thus further proving venomous aura is a design flaw and should either be removed or be a given to the poison without a trait. Also really funny how i have a choice between 4s immobilize (up to 6+ or more with venomous aura) or 3s of chill (up to 4+ or more with venomous aura).

Fade.7658:

I just tested the interval portion. It does indeed take at least 10 seconds to remove a second condition while in stealth.

I used Shadow Refuge, and it honestly looked like the interval timing started at 3 seconds AFTER I entered stealth. I was in stealth for ~14seconds, and the second condition didn’t even get cleansed, it fell off due to duration ending.

Time to level up my 15lvl warrior;) My thief is going to sit down for while ^^ Anet: thx for another nerf.

@ ensoriki: well this is why I usually try to defend thief specs that I typically don’t like to play or even play against. From the changes/nerfs/balances we’ve seen in the past usually a lot of collateral damage occurs often harming uninteded targets more.

So I take it the stun duration is somewhere around .57 seconds now instead of 1 second.