Guild Wars 2

Skip to 32:30 of this video
- No Nerf for S/D Larcenous strike!

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/3084216

Wouldn’t get my hopes up, if I were you.

A) This was only a preview. They mentioned multiple times there is alot more to the patch then what was seen.
B) The purpose of this preview was to show off cool new stuff – “Hey thieves, S/D got nerfed!” isn’t cool new stuff for thieves.

Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but it looks like a major nerf inc. for Shadow’s Embrace (1 condi removed every 10s in stealth instead of every 3s). Will be interesting to see if that’s counter-buffed somehow.

(Dev hovers over the tooltip at 33:47 into the stream)

Jesus, some people really think that was the whole patch. lmao.

I think those were some new changes, and not balance.

“Sic em cannot be dodged” – I didn’t get a chance to watch the whole stream earlier (stopped after thief), and I just caught this watching the vid.

An unavoidable skill that locks a class mechanic…sigh Anet, just Sigh.

The fact that the Revealed on “Sic ’Em!” can’t be avoided seems like the developers just ran out of ideas for how to handle stealth/improve the Ranger.

The immobilize for Body Shot is an improvement, though, and I was surprised to see it.

lol come on people, we can get perma-stealth easily and you’re QQing for a skill which reveals you for 4 secs in a CD of 40 secs? come on.

Imagi.4561:

The fact that the Revealed on “Sic ’Em!” can’t be avoided seems like the developers just ran out of ideas for how to handle stealth/improve the Ranger.

The immobilize for Body Shot is an improvement, though, and I was surprised to see it.

Relax. It’s a 4s revealed on a 40s CD. It’ll only be effective at clutch moments, and if wasted (e.g., as an opener) the long CD will impede the ranger more than the thief.

Elxdark.9702:

lol come on people, we can get perma-stealth easily and you’re QQing for a skill which reveals you for 4 secs in a CD of 40 secs? come on.

It’s about principle – an unavoidable “kitten 33% of your class mechanics and up to 30 trait points” is unacceptably kittenty design. But lets not derail this thread, I’ve already thought better of posting my opinion here and started a new thread.

cyyrix.6105:

Imagi.4561:

The fact that the Revealed on “Sic ’Em!” can’t be avoided seems like the developers just ran out of ideas for how to handle stealth/improve the Ranger.

The immobilize for Body Shot is an improvement, though, and I was surprised to see it.

Relax. It’s a 4s revealed on a 40s CD. It’ll only be effective at clutch moments, and if wasted (e.g., as an opener) the long CD will impede the ranger more than the thief.

I didn’t say it would kill the class. I said it was poorly designed.

cyyrix.6105:

Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but it looks like a major nerf inc. for Shadow’s Embrace (1 condi removed every 10s in stealth instead of every 3s). Will be interesting to see if that’s counter-buffed somehow.

(Dev hovers over the tooltip at 33:47 into the stream)

Ugh that will be horrible if it goes through. Hopefully it’s just something they’re messing with on the dev servers and it’s not changing tomorrow. More than tripling the cooldown? What the hell…

FYI thief-onlies, stealth isn’t the thief’s class mechanic. It’s a game mechanic.

Initiative is the thief’s class mechanic.

L2P <—Just thought this was appropriate for the thief forum. I dunno why but its thrown around everywhere so I figured, why not.

If you want a laugh, go over to the ranger forum and see that panic over devilish thieves immobilizing poor helpless rangers until they die from pistol wounds.

A 10 cooldown on Shadow’s Embrace would really make me want to give up the game for a month though.

Redscope.6215:

FYI thief-onlies, stealth isn’t the thief’s class mechanic. It’s a game mechanic.

Initiative is the thief’s class mechanic.

L2P <—Just thought this was appropriate for the thief forum. I dunno why but its thrown around everywhere so I figured, why not.

You know nothing of thieves; your semantics and poor attitude aren’t welcomed

Sick Em being unavoidable is going to be really annoying. But I can live with that.
However, I can’t live with that huge cooldown on Shadow Embrace.

The huge cooldown on shadow’s embrace and sick em really takes a bite into stealth play.

I get the feeling i may be doing s/d permanently from this patch and good forbid condi…/shiver

Redscope.6215:

FYI thief-onlies, stealth isn’t the thief’s class mechanic. It’s a game mechanic.

Initiative is the thief’s class mechanic.

L2P <—Just thought this was appropriate for the thief forum. I dunno why but its thrown around everywhere so I figured, why not.

No other class gains special variants on their auto-attack while in stealth – stealth is part of a thief’s class mechanic. I learned that from playing, back in October 2012.

Redscope.6215:

FYI thief-onlies, stealth isn’t the thief’s class mechanic. It’s a game mechanic.

Initiative is the thief’s class mechanic.

L2P <—Just thought this was appropriate for the thief forum. I dunno why but its thrown around everywhere so I figured, why not.

We have:

• Stealth Attacks
• An entire traitline dedicated to it
• Access to it on 4 weapon sets + several utilities.

Yeah, I’d say it’s one of our mechanics.

Redscope.6215:

FYI thief-onlies, stealth isn’t the thief’s class mechanic. It’s a game mechanic.

Initiative is the thief’s class mechanic.

L2P <—Just thought this was appropriate for the thief forum. I dunno why but its thrown around everywhere so I figured, why not.

If you’re going to play the semantics game, then technically Steal is the Thief “class mechanic.” Many people who dislike Thieves are quick to point this out. However, initiative and stealth are mechanics that are essential to the class.

I like this ArenaNet censure Yesterday on http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/3084216 i have see Trait tree on Thief and today ArenaNet delete this part ?

When skill 2 was used, it only stacked 5 vulnerability, instead of the 10 right now. It also cost 4 initiative.

So I’m really not sure. Seems like a backwards change more than anything. Right now Body Shot’s best use was in solo PvE to soften things up before Unload or cloak and dagger. Its effectiveness for this has been halved.

hihey.1075:

Sick Em being unavoidable is going to be really annoying. But I can live with that.
However, I can’t live with that huge cooldown on Shadow Embrace.

No afaik they did not say it was unavoidable, I only heard them say it canot be dodged.

cyyrix.6105:

Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but it looks like a major nerf inc. for Shadow’s Embrace (1 condi removed every 10s in stealth instead of every 3s). Will be interesting to see if that’s counter-buffed somehow.

(Dev hovers over the tooltip at 33:47 into the stream)

Well this will be annoying Q_Q looks like i’ll have to let go of traveler runes and get melandru or hoelbrak

evilapprentice.6379:

“Sic em cannot be dodged” – I didn’t get a chance to watch the whole stream earlier (stopped after thief), and I just caught this watching the vid.

An unavoidable skill that locks a class mechanic…sigh Anet, just Sigh.

Stealth isnt your class mechanic.

Engineers have stealth, Mesmers have stealth, Rangers have stealth. Any smuck that happens across a smoke-field with a leap or blast has stealth.

Thief class mechanic is Intitiative.

And its not like you are suddenly the only one that has to deal with a counter. Example, i got an HgH Alchemy build. Its traitline is about boons and stacking boons, guess what, boons have a counter. Just like your stealth.

Ofcourse the counter to boons is far more abundant and far more severe. Rather then just, not being able to stealth for 4seconds (which is a reveal + 1sec) from 1 single ability on a long cooldown. I loose several cooldowns worth of stacking, across several cooldown cycles. To a spammable ability. Or one that cannot fail. Or even someone that picked up a certain sigil.

You have no right to complain. Its a joke that Stealth has gone so long without any counter as it is.

Terrahero.9358:

evilapprentice.6379:

“Sic em cannot be dodged” – I didn’t get a chance to watch the whole stream earlier (stopped after thief), and I just caught this watching the vid.

An unavoidable skill that locks a class mechanic…sigh Anet, just Sigh.

Stealth isnt your class mechanic.

Engineers have stealth, Mesmers have stealth, Rangers have stealth. Any smuck that happens across a smoke-field with a leap or blast has stealth.

Thief class mechanic is Intitiative.

And its not like you are suddenly the only one that has to deal with a counter. Example, i got an HgH Alchemy build. Its traitline is about boons and stacking boons, guess what, boons have a counter. Just like your stealth.

Ofcourse the counter to boons is far more abundant and far more severe. Rather then just, not being able to stealth for 4seconds (which is a reveal + 1sec) from 1 single ability on a long cooldown. I loose several cooldowns worth of stacking, across several cooldown cycles. To a spammable ability. Or one that cannot fail. Or even someone that picked up a certain sigil.

You have no right to complain. Its a joke that Stealth has gone so long without any counter as it is.

Stealth attacks however are a class mechanic… meaning stealth is integral to a thief class mechanic.

Terrahero.9358:

Engineers have stealth, Mesmers have stealth, Rangers have stealth. Any smuck that happens across a smoke-field with a leap or blast has stealth.

they don’t have a trait line + traits in other lines dedicated to stealth + specific abilities that can be used only when stealthed.

also they have other ways to keep alive.

thieves have good melee burst (not the best) and … low health, low armor, low access to boons, no immunities ….

we have stealth and they are taking it away because noobs’ endless QQ.

I wonder what will you cry for once we won’t stealth but still crush you.

Mesmer got trait for stealth actually

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer got trait for stealth actually

how many ?

i want an unavoidable hard counter to clones…. no clones for 4s.

I’m just saying that your post was wrong. I don’t care how many it is or what you want.

Simple statement. No hard feelings.

Kenmei.7138:

I’m just saying that your post was wrong. I don’t care how many it is or what you want.

Simple statement. No hard feelings.

it was not wrong: i said 1 trait line + traits in other lines + specific skills.

if mesmers have a couple of traits they don’t have what i said.

so it was right.
Read & comprehension before reply.

Elxdark.9702:

lol come on people, we can get perma-stealth easily and you’re QQing for a skill which reveals you for 4 secs in a CD of 40 secs? come on.

It’s more than 4s if you cnd/backstab (revealed 3s) and then Sick ’Em strikes you.. or get randomly revealed without noticing (since the icons are super duper small) and you land a CnD blowing out your initiative.

I’m not a fan of this skill because it FORCES errors onto you, a way more suitable fix would be just getting rid of perma stealth. Stealth stacks up to 3s (4s with trait).. of course such a nerf would come with more survivability (waiting for a reliable stability skill o.o)

If that Shadow’s Embrace thing is true.. dear god.. our ONLY reliable condi removal.. atleast for me since I don’t use HiS -_-" and Shadowstep I obviously hardly use for condi removal lol..

A-net is going to make runes of Melandru only attainable through the gem store…

Kinda like the bloodlust buffs and new sales on finishing moves. Shameless I say, shameless! :p

I don’t know why the main issue with thief: stealth, isn’t being addressed in a PROPER way. Now you force errors on good players, they will die due to circumstances they cannot avoid (undodgeable). Not only that but also remove our only “reliable” condition removal..

Ele heals every 15s and removes conditions with every pulse (Ether Renewal) for example, they can endure 1v5 fights (not saying they win, they can endure..) for minutes if they want to. Put a thief in the same spot without stealth, dies in 1s.

Stealth capped at 3s would be a MASSIVE nerf but it would also get rid of all the complaints people have about stealth, no more perma stealthing, no more running away freely whenever you want… this would have to come with buffs too ofc.

What is coming to Thieves now is just mindblowing… run into something with conditions and you’re insta screwed. It’s like they force everyone to go D/P, perma stealth around a corner and hope for one upscaled to come by..also hope it’s not a necro/engi or his upscaled condi damage may own you.

Maybe I’m being a bit “dramatic” but I’m sorta worried about what is coming here. :/

Sceinna.3561:

Maybe I’m being a bit “dramatic” but I’m sorta worried about what is coming here. :/

You’re indeed overdramatizing. Sic them won’t see much use outside of WvW and can actually provide some counterplay to the cheesy d/p permastealthing thieves. If you’re any good, you’ll outlast those 4 secs of revealed anyway.

I agree that the change to SE seems rather odd, because it also harms builds aside from D/P and our condition removal in general (which isn’t all that great), but I also think it’ll be a nerf to d/p, as they now can’t remove condis at will anymore and actually have to use their brain for once. I’ve always found it ridiculous that condi builds were mostly uneffective against d/p once they had SE traited, because they could always choose how much condi they want to clean, before engaging again.

Maybe ANet should make a distinction between stealth as something that is available to more classes via combos (BP+HS) etc. and just stealths the player without activating traits) and something like “cloaked in shadows” as a thief/mesmer mechanic that triggers stealth related traits. This way they wouldn’t necessarily nerf other weaponsets, just d/p, but well…idk.

laquito.5269:

Sceinna.3561:

Maybe I’m being a bit “dramatic” but I’m sorta worried about what is coming here. :/

You’re indeed overdramatizing. Sic them won’t see much use outside of WvW and can actually provide some counterplay to the cheesy d/p permastealthing thieves. If you’re any good, you’ll outlast those 4 secs of revealed anyway.

I agree that the change to SE seems rather odd, because it also harms builds aside from D/P and our condition removal in general (which isn’t all that great), but I also think it’ll be a nerf to d/p, as they now can’t remove condis at will anymore and actually have to use their brain for once. I’ve always found it ridiculous that condi builds were mostly uneffective against d/p once they had SE traited, because they could always choose how much condi they want to clean, before engaging again.

Maybe ANet should make a distinction between stealth as something that is available to more classes via combos (BP+HS) etc. and just stealths the player without activating traits) and something like “cloaked in shadows” as a thief/mesmer mechanic that triggers stealth related traits. This way they wouldn’t necessarily nerf other weaponsets, just d/p, but well…idk.

I dont think you realise how hard SE nerf is. SE internal cooldown dont reset each time u enter stealth. IF it would, then after nerf u would simply remove one condition when entering stealth, which is the case now if u dont sit in stealth all 4 seconds, sometimes it even dont remove it if u was 1 s in stealth last time, then u have to sit 2 extra s in stealth just for it to triger. After nerf it will be one condition every 10 s and in order to clean that single condi u will have to stealth. Can think even of worse situation … Atm SE internal cooldown ticks only when you are in stealth and skill description says “remove 1 condition every 10 s while in stealth”, so if you stealth and remove 1 condition, then stealth again in 10 s to remove another condition (just in theory, in reality with stealth based build you are allready dead) it wont remove it, couse internal cooldown is at 4s max (the ammount of time u spent in stealth last time).
So… thats basically one condi every 20 s if u sit 3 s in each stealth… You need 3 stealth with full duration just for internal cooldown to tick those 10 s, add 3s revealed in between that ( 3s revealed in perfect conditions, u might spend out of stealth more).

you can rely on many other condition removers… oh, wait…

So if they change how SE internal cooldown works u will remove 1 condition every 10 s if u stealth, so in reality it will be up to 13 s or more. If they dont … Add 6 s revealed in between if u sit our full duration of stealth each time, if not, add more …

Truely dissapointed with the SE change if true, seems Anet just wants thiefs to burst and run, while other classes can have fun in substained fights.

Daendur.2357:

Terrahero.9358:

Engineers have stealth, Mesmers have stealth, Rangers have stealth. Any smuck that happens across a smoke-field with a leap or blast has stealth.

they don’t have a trait line + traits in other lines dedicated to stealth + specific abilities that can be used only when stealthed.

also they have other ways to keep alive.

thieves have good melee burst (not the best) and … low health, low armor, low access to boons, no immunities ….

we have stealth and they are taking it away because noobs’ endless QQ.

I wonder what will you cry for once we won’t stealth but still crush you.

QQ at its finest. Its a 4s reveal with a 40s cooldown, only one profession has access to.

Every other profession has to deal with counters, so does you:

- boons are an integral part of guardian and ele mechanics, but theres both boon stripping and boon hate
- stuns are an integral part of hammer warriors, but theres both stun breaks and stability
- blocks are an integral part of various professions, but theres unblockable
- heal is an integral part of many profession, but theres poison
- conditions are an integral part of many professions, but theres condition remover and condition immunity

What makes thieves so special that there should be no counter to stealth?

Allready getting my berserker gear and scholar runes … 25/30/0/0/15 is back in game …

teg.1340:

Daendur.2357:

Terrahero.9358:

Engineers have stealth, Mesmers have stealth, Rangers have stealth. Any smuck that happens across a smoke-field with a leap or blast has stealth.

they don’t have a trait line + traits in other lines dedicated to stealth + specific abilities that can be used only when stealthed.

also they have other ways to keep alive.

thieves have good melee burst (not the best) and … low health, low armor, low access to boons, no immunities ….

we have stealth and they are taking it away because noobs’ endless QQ.

I wonder what will you cry for once we won’t stealth but still crush you.

QQ at its finest. Its a 4s reveal with a 40s cooldown, only one profession has access to.

Every other profession has to deal with counters, so does you:

- boons are an integral part of guardian and ele mechanics, but theres both boon stripping and boon hate
- stuns are an integral part of hammer warriors, but theres both stun breaks and stability
- blocks are an integral part of various professions, but theres unblockable
- heal is an integral part of many profession, but theres poison
- conditions are an integral part of many professions, but theres condition remover and condition immunity

What makes thieves so special that there should be no counter to stealth?

If you can’t differentiate a soft counter/game mechanic which can be dodged/blocked/cleansed/etc from an undodgeable, uncleansable hard counter, you really shouldn’t be posting – your opinion carries no worth.

Really, I’ll stop roaming as a thief if SE nerf is true.
Sickem on rangers could be a bother in nasty 1v2+s, but I learned how to escape shadow traps when being chased by 3 people so that’s not really an issue (although I agree that it’s the ONLY offensive skill which can’t be dodged in the whole game).
SE nerf will harm every thief, not just D/P.

@ teg.1340 : your argument is false. Is there a coutner to shouts for warriors meditation skills for guardians elixirs for engis and so on?

Eodwen.2613:

@ teg.1340 : your argument is false. Is there a coutner to shouts for warriors meditation skills for guardians elixirs for engis and so on?

Yes, and that is boon removal or boon stripping.

hihey.1075:

Eodwen.2613:

@ teg.1340 : your argument is false. Is there a coutner to shouts for warriors meditation skills for guardians elixirs for engis and so on?

Yes, and that is boon removal or boon stripping.

Because you can boon removal or boon strip “Shake it Off” right…

Because you can boon removal or boon strip Elixir S right…

No its not boons are not secondery class mechanic stealth is for theif. If thats wrong to begin with thats another topic entirely.

You can also remove conditions but thats not considered counter to to necro mechanics.

Sifu.6527:

hihey.1075:

Eodwen.2613:

@ teg.1340 : your argument is false. Is there a coutner to shouts for warriors meditation skills for guardians elixirs for engis and so on?

Yes, and that is boon removal or boon stripping.

Because you can boon removal or boon strip “Shake it Off” right…

Because you can boon removal or boon strip Elixir S right…

I never said theres a counter to EVERY skill in the game. That would be hilarious. Those skills mentioned are themselves COUNTER skills (condition remover, stun breaker). Sure, there is not a counter that counters the counter of the counter…

Or do you believe that Shake It Off – a skill which removes 1 condition (lol) – has the same weight to warriors as stealth has to thieves?

Eodwen.2613:

No its not boons are not secondery class mechanic stealth is for theif. If thats wrong to begin with thats another topic entirely.

Ever played a guardian or ele without boons? lol

So is that your answer to that im telling you its not a class mechanic and you answer with a build argument…

LionZero.3479:

Truely dissapointed with the SE change if true, seems Anet just wants thiefs to burst and run, while other classes can have fun in substained fights.

this game needs….
….more warriors!!!!!!