Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp:
“Keeping an eye on something means we’re watching it, seeing how it plays out, and making sure we don’t make knee jerk reactions (nerfs or buffs).
Having said that, Dagger/dagger Ele needs help. Some defensive Ele specs are too good. Some of their sustained damage is too low, while some spike builds are pretty rough. Keeping an eye on it means we’re not going to nerf/buff it without thinking very carefully about it – that’s what my first update was about.
We’re also keeping an eye on Thieves, both in regards to damage output and sustained defense through stealth.
We’re also looking at the balance for all the downed skills for all classes. Some are riding the high end of the power curve, while others feel weaker in comparison.
Anddddddddddd we’re also looking at buffs/nerfs to all classes as apropos – I’m just not listing every single one. For many classes this means that we want them to have different builds that are equally viable, and making sure that no single build outshines all others in efficacy. Also, this means that JUST BECAUSE I DIDN’T SPECIFICALLY CALL OUT YOUR CLASS in a post, that DOES NOT MEAN WE’RE NOT LOOKING AT IT.
Communication in-and-of-itself is a complicated thing, and the inherent complication of human communication is further exacerbated when it’s done via a web-based medium. We’re trying to do our best to communicate with you, so please understand that just because I say “keeping an eye on something”, that doesn’t mean we are nerfing X from orbit with a Nerf nuke – as it’s the only way to be sure. It simply means we’re keeping an eye on it.
/salute

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Quick-update/page/3#post354773

Then I look at the first page of the thief forums and see the following thread titles:

“What’s your highest backstab hit?”
“Thief base hp too low”?
“So exactly how much damage can a burst thief do against…”
“28.3k damage on steal”

So before you title your next thread, consider how people might view it when happening across the thief forum for a casual read.

Umm… What part of those thread titles entail that a nerf is incoming?
Are you so blind that you did not even read what John himself explained?

Silly rabbit..

Nefarious.2014:

just because I say “keeping an eye on something”, that doesn’t mean we are nerfing X from orbit with a Nerf nuke – as it’s the only way to be sure. It simply means we’re keeping an eye on it.
/salute

The bat is taking aim…

Reading comprehension too strong.

@Knyx

ANet implied they are keeping an eye on thief damage output and OP listing of threads from first page is supporting the fact thief community is supporting damage output potential being great

John from ANet expressed there won’t be any knee jerk reaction to buff/nerfs but since thief damage is specifically listed as what they are keeping an eye on, it doesn’t take English major to figure out what OP/ANet is trying to convey

Nefarious.2014:

“28.3k damage on steal”

Question: Did you bother looking into any of those threads, including this specific one? Steal can’t do 28.3k damage…maybe in a neutral critter…but you can hit those for over 300k from a normal attack.

Nefarious.2014:

“What’s your highest backstab hit?”
“Thief base hp too low”?
“So exactly how much damage can a burst thief do against…”
“28.3k damage on steal”

The bat is taking aim…

In order:
1: Done against probably a lvl 10 (or less) target.
2: Lowest in game atm; shared with 2 other classes.
3: Varies depending on target’s spec from ‘a lot’ to ‘not much’.
4: Misleading title is misleading. Most of that damage was easily preventable.

Wow guys, really….

1. I never said a nerf is coming did I? They have highlighted aspects of the thief that have the potential to get balanced or tweaked in the future.

2. I’m not validating ANY of those threads. Yes I have read them all. Each one is terrible. I’m just saying that there is a disconnect between how ANET is viewing thieves right now and how thieves perceive their own position. I wanted to point out how the titles of these threads, combined with ANETs statement, could have some people screaming for thieves to be tweaked.

3. Anyone who doesn’t think that “Keeping an eye on X”, when X is specifically called out (damage, stealth, defense, etc) will tend to be a bad thing is delusional. Acknowledgement is a step in the direction of getting something changed.

That’s all I’m saying guys. I thought people would like to see this quote. It is FYI.

To avoid more people flipping the kitten out, I removed the aiming bat reference.

What is it that people want exactly? Thief already has one of the lowest HP pools in game. Our survivability is based in our movement/evades (even stated we have no real “defense” to speak of). Our defense is our offense, hit hard and fast and get out it’s the same basic idea of any stealth/rouge/thief class from any mmo.

I see so much crying in the thief forums (from people that don’t play the class) and it gets old. Dmg output is our thing, and if your stated to maximize it (Glass Cannon) you can kill in 1-3 hits but you can also die in 1-3 hits. I personally don’t play that way and have gotten hammered by them, it’s frustrating. So you know what? I learned to counter them. OMFG I had to change MY tatics and adjust MY playstyle. Sometimes they still get me but not every time now.

Whiners are going to whine and cry no matter what. next it will be a different skill set/build or a different profession all together. The thief class does have some things that need to be addressed but how about this, let’s just skip a few steps here so that the cry babys will all be happy. Let’s just remove the thief class from the game and give all of the thief players a refund.

Nefarious.2014:

Wow guys, really….

1. I never said a nerf is coming did I? They have highlighted aspects of the thief that have the potential to get balanced or tweaked in the future.

Nefarious.2014:

The bat is taking aim……

Nefarious.2014:

1. I never said a nerf is coming did I?

To avoid more people flipping the kitten out, I removed the aiming bat reference.

lol. “I never said a nerf was coming.”
“I removed the comment about saying a nerf was coming.”

Shadow Phage.9084:

Nefarious.2014:

“What’s your highest backstab hit?”
“Thief base hp too low”?
“So exactly how much damage can a burst thief do against…”
“28.3k damage on steal”

The bat is taking aim…

In order:
.
.
.
4: Misleading title is misleading. Most of that damage was easily preventable.

And just to make it even more clear…The major bulk of 28k damage came from a certain warrior’s skill that got stolen.

The title isn’t misleading. I used steal to get the whirlwind that did 28.3k aoe damage lol. The whirlwind ability comes specifically from stealing, and there’s no other way to obtain it as a thief. If anyone watched that video they would see what I was talking about :P

No. Pickpocket and Whirlwind are separate abilities. You did 28k globally, not with Pickpocket.

blackgoat.5172:

…it’s the same basic idea of any stealth/rouge/thief class from any mmo.

Which is funny, because I seem to remember this was the game that was going to design a thief class that didn’t have the issues that the basic flawed premise of stealth->huge burst->being able to escape, cause in just about every MMORPG, all Anet managed to do was remove permastealth, other than that, it is same old same old.

blackgoat.5172:

I see so much crying in the thief forums (from people that don’t play the class) and it gets old. Dmg output is our thing, and if your stated to maximize it (Glass Cannon) you can kill in 1-3 hits but you can also die in 1-3 hits. I personally don’t play that way and have gotten hammered by them, it’s frustrating. So you know what? I learned to counter them. OMFG I had to change MY tatics and adjust MY playstyle. Sometimes they still get me but not every time now.

What gets old is people defending bad game design and pure cheese like 14k backstabs on targets with 1300 toughness, because they lack any objectivity.

And yes I do play a thief amongst other things, but then I don’t really see how it is relevant, no one needs to play a class to have a perfectly valid view that the damage output is too high in relation to healh pools, it is meant to be an MMORPG not a third rate FPS.

Lastly in regard to the glass cannon nonsense, that is part of the problem, I’m not punished on my thief in the same way as most classes are for going glass cannon, because I have moblity and escapability that most classes do not possess.

Its pretty obvious Thiefs nerfs will be coming. Doh !
And in all fairness its needed.

Sylosi.6503:

What gets old is people defending bad game design and pure cheese like 14k backstabs on targets with 1300 toughness, because they lack any objectivity.

Just because you, or anyone for that matter doesn’t like the way something is doesn’t make it bad game design. Without that 1300 toughness that backstab just became alot more. The toughness did it’s job

Sylosi.6503:

And yes I do play a thief amongst other things, but then I don’t really see how it is relevant, no one needs to play a class to have a perfectly valid view that the damage output is too high in relation to healh pools, it is meant to be an MMORPG not a third rate FPS.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, it’s not about that. Please just post the complaints in the appropriate threads and stop coming at thieves in their Profession forum it’s not the appropriate place.

A thief with very high dmg output trades that for survivability some people are very good at this playstyle. That doesn’t mean the class needs “nerfed”. I’m well aware that there are issues with the class and Anet has their eyes on this (along with A LOT of other things). The company has an excellent track record for this kind of thing so lets all just relax a little they’ll get to it.

I’m excited to see what tweaks we get.

yea hopefully they will turn the class more into what they advertised from the get go it was going to be..

The thief indeed needs tweaks. TONS.

Nerfs in some areas, buffs in some others. It’s obvious.

GET OVER IT.

High five, Knyx and Big.

I love my Thief, but I’m not adverse to some dial tuning. I can’t imagine that we’re one of the those professions that only needs the nerfs and not buffs or fine tuning in other areas. If they did that, then I’d raise an eyebrow.

But I also play a Mesmer and Elementalist, and between the three I really feel like the classes aren’t exactly where they want them to be, even with the best intentions. Heck, hold any profession up against the Warrior (the only one I recall them saying was “finished” back this summer) and everything needs refining.

And that’s cool. It’s an MMO. I’m used to this.

Pistol whip needs removing and just making a new skill really,

Backstab is only doing good damage due to assassins signet, its easily fixed by changing assassins signet. In general PvE backstab isnt the monster it is in PvP and the dps you lose by moving to the back of mobs in dungeons etc or chasing them around warrents the hits you get as a level 80 thief. I mean I only hit for about 3k average on a level 80 mob in my knights + mf gear + Zerker weapons with 1810 power and 33% bonus crit damage.

much work needs doing on our ranged, and almost all of the duel skills could use a tweak or re design I feel..

If pistol whip is removed, similar skills from other classes needs to be removed.

Personally I think mesmers need to be removed because they’re an obnoxious class. Let the qq-ing begin!!!

For many classes this means that we want them to have different builds that are equally viable, and making sure that no single build outshines all others in efficacy.

I think thief is sitting pretty good in that regard. Almost everything is viable, and no one build really outshines others in anything but the lowest brackets of play. The only thing that could use a little work is the Sword/Dagger dual skill. It’s just… well, not good.

In my professional opinion, Warrior, Thief and Guardians are balanced, nothing wrong with them. It’s the other classes that need small buffs, more-so Elems.

Auron.2657:

In my professional opinion, Warrior, Thief and Guardians are balanced, nothing wrong with them. It’s the other classes that need small buffs, more-so Elems.

I’m not even sure how much of a buff they really need. I think what they may really need is just a simplification of mechanics if the skill floor isn’t right. But good elementalists can absolutely destroy things just as well as anyone else, if not better. Heck, I saw something on reddit the other day that an elementalist solo’d an explorable dungeon. That’s a feat I can barely even dream of on my thief… My ranger might be able to do it, but it would be sketchy.

bwillb.2165:

For many classes this means that we want them to have different builds that are equally viable, and making sure that no single build outshines all others in efficacy.

I think thief is sitting pretty good in that regard. Almost everything is viable, and no one build really outshines others in anything but the lowest brackets of play. The only thing that could use a little work is the Sword/Dagger dual skill. It’s just… well, not good.

I know you post on this forum a lot and do contribute to threads but I couldn’t agree less with this post. (apart from the S/P dual)

There are currently 3 skills which define most thief’s right now,
These are:
Backstab
Pistol Whip
and to a lesser extent Sneak attack

Due to there being so few options for us with weapons I feel there is some need to review the class due to the gimmicky specs. But that’s me, everyone is entitled to their opinions

Auron.2657:

In my professional opinion, Warrior, Thief and Guardians are balanced, nothing wrong with them. It’s the other classes that need small buffs, more-so Elems.

Warriors are the best rounded class

they have good range, good mitigation options, good melee, good condition options, good aoe options, good ultility and buff options..

you cannot say the same about any other class in GW2 right now, they all fall down somewhere. Ele has an overpowered water spec that heals for far too much which I expect to get toned down but they need some love in other areas just as Thief and guardian need to have a little review

Nerf the class and be done with it, then I can get on with playing my favorite all time class in all MMOs.

Woop woop! Good to know thief nerfs are incoming. (It’s obvious that they are, it’s just a matter of when and how… He just didn’t want to sent the entire thief community into a rage prematurely).

TBH, thieves need it. Badly. Real strategy is getting overshadowed by cheese instagib builds.

The good thieves will still continue to own you, and people will STILL complain.

And more nerfs will come, until the thief requires a pro gamer to be able to get anything done.

This post is directed to all those braggers and whiners are who committed to wrecking the profession for all thieves. For the rest of you, feel free to laugh and nod.

Honestly, people, this is demented.
Nefarious was just saying something that was needed, “tone down the names of your posts.”
Since I actively play all classes, I frequent the boards of each type of character.
As much as I enjoy the thief, the forums here are far different.
There are more flames, fallacies, and foolish posts on the thieves board then anywhere else.
We have:

1. Thieves misleading people about how much damage they can do, if they prep the conditions so that the average moa could achieve the same damage rating.
2. Every whiner who happened to be killed by a thief screaming for a nerf, because they are “too good” to have been killed by a medium-armor class character.
3. Thieves whining about not being able to stay alive with because their armor and health sucks.

I have news for all those whiners:
The thief is neither awesome nor does it suck. It, like most classes is very balanced.

1. For all you idiots tooting your own horns: You can’t deal damage like an ele or a burst warrior, period. Stop twisting things to make that one shining moment seem like it is typical. Talk about the thief’s strategies, tactics, etc. If you want to brag, how overpowered you are, talk to your girlfriend. That will get you brownie points. Right. We want to hear it less than her.
2. For those of you who can’t understand how you at your awesome play level were actually killed by a thief: Grow up. Thieves are burst-only combatants. If you give them free shots on you, they will kill you. If you want to stay alive then: ( A ) break stun, for goodness sakes. ( B ) Move! Just bloody move out of the way. ( C ) Target them, use a distance closer or cripple, and freakin kill them. Seriously, how many of you have been killed by dead thieves?!?! Thieves are glass cannons, if you catch them, they die. If you can’t do that, you aren’t very good, are you?
3. For all you thieves convinced that we are all underpowered, it is time you went through Thieves Guild 101. Thieves – absent a trait-equipment specialty build – are always glass cannons. You have no armor and no health. So get bloody-well used to dodging attacks.

Of all the classes I have played – everything but engineer – the thief is the most balanced by far. It makes it fun and challenging. But everyone, thief or not, is whining about this class. If you think it is overpowered then: as a thief, you haven’t played enough other professions; as a non-thief, you just haven’t figured out how to play against thieves. If you think it is underpowered: as a thief, you haven’t figured out how to evade and disappear correctly; as a non-thief, you haven’t fought a really good thief.

In summary in GW2, like in all games, the good players are all overpowerd and the bad are all underpowered. Deal with it.

The moral of the story is stop whining and stop bragging. You aren’t doing anybody any good.

@Jack Angelfoot.2697
100% agree with you. Haters always gonna hate. Whiners always gonna whine.

Glass cannon ele v. glass cannon thief = thief comes up on top EVERY TIME because they simply have better survivability

blink.4239:

Glass cannon ele v. glass cannon thief = thief comes up on top EVERY TIME because they simply have better survivability

Not an indictment of thief, that’s an indictment of ele.
And it’s not true.
And it has no place here.

Notably, I would like to point out all the information that you included as a basis for that insightful comment. Without your thorough analysis, we would think you were whining.

Oh, wait. You just wrote one sentence without proper punctuation. My bad.