Guild Wars 2

Withdraw 15s -> 18s recharge (healing also inc. by 10%)
Cloak and Dagger Damage reduced by ~17% (increased in PvP by 25%)
Devourer Venom Immob Reduced from 2s -> 1s.
Choking gas Reduced duration from 3s -> 2s.
Resilience of Shadows 50% -> 25% reduced damage

However they DID move Last Refuge -> Adept trait line which makes it ALL worthwhile ;P

The withdraw had to happen because it’s a trick now and we’ve got a trait that reduces the recharge of tricks by 20%
Don’t really get the nerf of choking gas though and it’s 4 seconds on my short bow right now, so I’m confused. Would be ok if it would also cost less initative as that is what I’m spamming in zerg fights.

Jana.6831:

The withdraw had to happen because it’s a trick now and we’ve got a trait that reduces the recharge of tricks by 20%
Don’t really get the nerf of choking gas though and it’s 4 seconds on my short bow right now, so I’m confused. Would be ok if it would also cost less initative as that is what I’m spamming in zerg fights.

Just that it has to compete with bountiful theft. Thats like: “Nerfed cause of maybe buff with a trait, just that it can´t compete. Enjoy your hidden nerf.” Anet so sneaky.
Yeah, got nerfed once. Gets nerfed again. I´m not surprised. Why should a skill called Choking Gas with 4 initiative cost provide that amount of poison when keep staying inside? x) Maybe add Vulnerability to it at least?
Funny that this is our way to compete with Looting-machines like Guard, necro and ele ^^
Some main thief got Ultimate dominator? Or they all died of boredom ^^
The other things are ok imo

Oh that’s a long story, I don’t care about the loot, also not about ultimate dominator.
When the ferocity change hit last year I have been unable to run with the zerg anymore so I was standing around in towers for a few months. Every other person would’ve rerolled another class, I couldn’t. So I became a roamer (10 kills per day woohooo).
A few months later I started to join zergs with my valk/zerker thief again – a really bad idea usually, but it works, even frontline with the right commanders. And our server isn’t underpopulated – we have got queues for the maps I’m on.
A few weeks ago we fought hard to get in first and I killed 500 guys within one day
I just want to be useful actually, not so sure if this nerf was really neccessary.

Jana.6831:

Oh that’s a long story, I don’t care about the loot, also not about ultimate dominator.
When the ferocity change hit last year I have been unable to run with the zerg anymore so I was standing around in towers for a few months. Every other person would’ve rerolled another class, I couldn’t. So I became a roamer (10 kills per day woohooo).
A few months later I started to join zergs with my valk/zerker thief again – a really bad idea usually, but it works, even frontline with the right commanders. And our server isn’t underpopulated – we have got queues for the maps I’m on.
A few weeks ago we fought hard to get in first and I killed 500 guys within one day
I just want to be useful actually, not so sure if this nerf was really neccessary.

You got up again. I like you.
I didn´t liked thief that much. Starting with Pistols and rifles in the game and choice of name. “Thief” – great >_<
and was sad about a lot what happened in the last 3 years. Started with thief, over a year until sec class. What I began to love was what I could do with him. Nerf after nerf. Adapting to every single nerf that happened. That improvement you got through is what makes you better in that game. People will go on because of what they do with the class, not what anet makes it. And it got so hard for thieves to play on high niveau. You not only need to know your own class perfectly, but what every other class could have for you, what you have to do in PvP and rotate correct. Making mistakes doesn´t only punishes you, but your hole team. I don´t know how much I changed in options or asked very good players to improve my own skill. But in the next moment 2 players are crossing your way, for example a ranger with auto targeting just pressing a skill one after another and hitting hitting with some without thinking. Why nerfing Felina Grace that way? Letting the effect only occur when successful evading would have been enough. But no, giving 2sec nerfed vigor with an ICD. Kinda gott of topic

Withdraw":https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw 15s -> 18s recharge (healing also inc. by 10%)

Withdraw is very very very strong so this is logical.

Devourer Venom Immob Reduced from 2s -> 1s.

It has 2 changes baseline now

New trickster + old withdraw cd really made me think about switching bountiful theft to trickster, it’s less appealing now.

Quadox.7834:

Withdraw":https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw 15s -> 18s recharge (healing also inc. by 10%)

Withdraw is very very very strong so this is logical.

Devourer Venom Immob Reduced from 2s -> 1s.

It has 2 changes baseline now

I agree with the guy above:P To add:

Resilience of Shadows was a bit too powerful at 50 percent I think.
Cloak and Dagger has a nice increase in PvP! (I am not sure how much the decrease in damage affects WvW though)

The only thing I don’t really understand is this:
Choking gas decreased to 2 seconds. I’d rather hope they would buff this because now we can’t rely on the skill to keep players from healing themselves. But that’s just my opinion of course.

Need some confirmation on this fellow thief players:

So let me get this straight. Shadow’s rejuvenation and Blind on stealth are both buffed but are put in the grandmaster line and I can’t have them both now. CnD damage will be reduced in PVE which means WvW too? If that’s the case, reduce CnD damage, remove blind on stealth and shadow’s rejuvenation together it’s either no blind but more init regen and HP regen, I like it on DD but I think on D/P I can reset fights fast and stealth more + I still get the blinds from shadow shot and BP while regaining more init and HP for moar stealth. hmmm… D/P it is for SA. For usual D/D 2 6 6 or 0 6 6 2 builds will need more tweaking it seems.

Resilience of shadows or meld with shadows/shadow’s embrace/buffed shadow’s rejuvenation on D/P seems really good and better than before.

Strategist.6132:

Resilience of Shadows was a bit too powerful at 50 percent I think.
Cloak and Dagger has a nice increase in PvP! (I am not sure how much the decrease in damage affects WvW though)

The only thing I don’t really understand is this:
Choking gas decreased to 2 seconds. I’d rather hope they would buff this because now we can’t rely on the skill to keep players from healing themselves. But that’s just my opinion of course.

personally i hoped for 33% for RoS

for the C&D change i think they are leaving the C&D dmg as it is in WvW and just rebalance the rest to the WvW level – dont quote me on that though, maybe the -17% in PvE may also apply to WvW as i dont know whether C&D deals different dmg at in these two game modes

and totally agree with you on the next choking gas nerf, would rather see the duration increased as we dont get condition duration with DA now and the poison wont stay on for long because everyone can just move out of it before the second tick
guess i will be using it even less now and more clusterbomb

WvW is PvE. At least as far as balance goes, so C&D is taking a ~17% damage hit. That is totally worth it not to have all the timing be different in PvP. I can actually play the same character in WvW and PvP and not have it feel alien and weird with all the timings/damage being different.

As a side note: I don’t think it will be worthwhile to detonate cluster bomb anymore, at least on a power build. The added bleeds will do so little damage that it won’t compensate for the chance of a missed cluster and loss of blast finisher.

Kadin.2356:

WvW is PvE. At least as far as balance goes, so C&D is taking a ~17% damage hit. That is totally worth it not to have all the timing be different in PvP. I can actually play the same character in WvW and PvP and not have it feel alien and weird with all the timings/damage being different.

As a side note: I don’t think it will be worthwhile to detonate cluster bomb anymore, at least on a power build. The added bleeds will do so little damage that it won’t compensate for the chance of a missed cluster and loss of blast finisher.

Your post sounds like anet are also giving revealed the same duration in wvw and pvp, truth or not? i didnt see anything like that

Tarkan.5609:

Kadin.2356:

WvW is PvE. At least as far as balance goes, so C&D is taking a ~17% damage hit. That is totally worth it not to have all the timing be different in PvP. I can actually play the same character in WvW and PvP and not have it feel alien and weird with all the timings/damage being different.

As a side note: I don’t think it will be worthwhile to detonate cluster bomb anymore, at least on a power build. The added bleeds will do so little damage that it won’t compensate for the chance of a missed cluster and loss of blast finisher.

Your post sounds like anet are also giving revealed the same duration in wvw and pvp, truth or not? i didnt see anything like that

They stated that there weren’t going to be any divisions between PvP and PvE as far as skill balance goes as it was too hard for them to balance them both.

I think they decreased the damage in WvW (and buffed it in PvP) because the revealed duration in WvW is 3 seconds while in PvP it is 4 seconds and thus you can use it less often and with more risk in PvP.

CnD dmg is reduced in wvw too? i hope they consider wvw as pvp.