Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone! First a backgrounder. I’ve been roaming almost exclusively for a long while now in WvW. I’ve seen my share of good and bad fights including ones I had no chance of winning which is pretty much acceptable.

Ever since the patch, I couldn’t kill thieves. Even with a pure burst mediguard. How do you kill something that’s stealthed 90% of the time and always has the initiative? With the current damage models now very fast and very bursty, anybody who has initiative in combat will have a significant advantage.

I’m not hating on thieves, they will take any advantage they can get, that’s just what combat is all about. I’m more concerned about the power of stealth over everybody in this current damage models. They are the ones who dictate who will attack first and attack they will with gusto! Factoring in the damage we all deal these days, they will more likely kill you.

Furthermore, I’ve seen 2 thieves duel, and even they couldn’t kill each other. Took a long long time! Any thoughts on this everybody?

you kill something that is stealthed by hitting where they are, it only makes them invisible, NOT invincible, and most stealths only last a few seconds so keep moving around and away from where they stealth, in unpredictable patterns so the stealth run out before they can attack you, and if they use shadow refuge (the only truely long lasting stealth) well kill them by aoeing the refuge before it goes down, or simply push them out of it with some knockbacks, and they be revealed as well… and i could go on and on and on about easy counters… stealth is like the defensive mechanic with the MOST counters, unlike skills that other class have that give invulnerability and the like, only think you can do on that kind of stuff is more or less wait it out

That’s how I used to do it. No longer applicable now for some reason. Their stealth is longer now.

It’s not enough that thieves can’t kill you. Now you want them to be free kills with their already nerfed stealth and survivability?

yea, they are OP now. I took a full pvt guard into battle with a guildy thief… was downed in less then 1 second… it was “poof” pistol whip for 9x dmg"dead guard" before I had even a second to pop renewed focus or any other blocking utility… the only chance I had to beat the thief was to completely respect traits and what not to fitthat specific fight scenario, and even then I had to have a bit of a pre warning he was coming to be quick enuff to out live the initial burst… only to die in the second burst cuz the CD’s on thiefs specs are half what a guard has. He hit me again wit ha second burst while 60% of what I had was still on a 15+ sec cd…. This rebalancing is pure crap TBH.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

yea, they are OP now. I took a full pvt guard into battle with a guildy thief… was downed in less then 1 second… it was “poof” pistol whip for 9x dmg"dead guard" before I had even a second to pop renewed focus or any other blocking utility… the only chance I had to beat the thief was to completely respect traits and what not to fitthat specific fight scenario, and even then I had to have a bit of a pre warning he was coming to be quick enuff to out live the initial burst… only to die in the second burst cuz the CD’s on thiefs specs are half what a guard has. He hit me again wit ha second burst while 60% of what I had was still on a 15+ sec cd…. This rebalancing is pure crap TBH.

What you described has nothing to do with stealth…

yes it does, cuz the whole time I was waiting on my CD’s, he was stealthed and was able to bring to bear a second full burst strike while still remaining in stealth…

Medi guard is dead – don’t ask me why, I didn’t really listen when my friend who mains medi guard tried to explain it to me. He also part time mains a thief, so I guess he knew what he (tried to) was talking about. I’ll ask him again and listen this time.
Stealth (for thieves) doesn’t last longer, sorry to disappoint you.

so let me recap for you… there I am wandering around looking for the thief. “poof” thief appears next to me, does 18k dmg in less than 1.5 seconds and “poof” back into stealth. I spam everything in gods creation to clear condi, heal and keep from being downed by it, placing 60% of all my utilitys and virtues on a 30+ second cooldown, then 5 seconds later, “poof” thief appears again, bursts another 18k damage and laughs as I lay there a burning/poisoned heap…. this is broken and needs fixed. no one should be able to do 40k burst damage in a total of less than 3 seconds visible time, and another 5 seconds stealthed…

my issue isn’t with whether or not the stealth is longer, its the fact that damage is so blown out of proportion that a full spec heal/tank guard cant last 3 seconds in a fight against 40k dmg bursts…

CorrynnStarr.7942:

so let me recap for you… there I am wandering around looking for the thief. “poof” thief appears next to me, does 18k dmg in less than 1.5 seconds and “poof” back into stealth. I spam everything in gods creation to clear condi, heal and keep from being downed by it, placing 60% of all my utilitys and virtues on a 30+ second cooldown, then 5 seconds later, “poof” thief appears again, bursts another 18k damage and laughs as I lay there a burning/poisoned heap…. this is broken and needs fixed. no one should be able to do 40k burst damage in a total of less than 3 seconds visible time, and another 5 seconds stealthed…

Everybody does an insane amount of damage right now because anet have broken their game. Other than that thieves have always fought like this.

Azure Prower.8701:

It’s not enough that thieves can’t kill you. Now you want them to be free kills with their already nerfed stealth and survivability?

This is totally untrue. I got in a fight with a another thief who was able to remain in stealth using black powder / heart seeker, longer then my shadow refuge. In fact, i could get him near death but he would weapon swap then perma invis till he was full health with heal on stealth. I assure you. Perma stealth is very good for surviving.

I don’t think playing perma stealth is fair so i refuse to do it, but to say thief stealth has been nerfed is ridiculous.

yea I understand the tactic has always been the same etc, there is just no way to even counter it unless you spec fully tank and KNOW the thief is coming… which a smart thief will make sure you don’t see him coming… and if you are anything other then full vit tough heal spec… your just dead… period… POOF dead 1 second later…

CorrynnStarr.7942:

yea I understand the tactic has always been the same etc, there is just no way to even counter it unless you spec fully tank and KNOW the thief is coming… which a smart thief will make sure you don’t see him coming… and if you are anything other then full vit tough heal spec… your just dead… period… POOF dead 1 second later…

Can you counter any other classes right now?

its funny tho.. :/ cuz actually our Stealth was nerfed quite alot. now we cannot regain ini so fast like we used to. nor we can cleanse all condis. lots of thieves now dropping Shadow Arts trait line entirely and goin full glass. (thnx Anet tho.. many ppl wanted for stealth to be nerfed so there u go. now enjoy new era of thieves. “either u die in 1sec or thief dies in 1sec” )

I’ve been playing my goku guardian build and thieves just can’t handle the kamehameha

choovanski.5462:

I’ve been playing my goku guardian build and thieves just can’t handle the kamehameha

This^

This is the sad state of the thief. Some will laugh when i say the thief has been nerfed but it is true. You either run something close to berserker or you die… period. We have been reduced to troll burst damage.

Now, more then ever, skillfully placed interrupts and dodges are insignificant compared to the massive heap of trash effects, invulnerabilities, etc. This is most noticeable playing the thief… none of the thiefs little tricks and interrupts work because people have a boat load of anti-traps, anti-cc, anti damage. So the new strategy is to burst.. if they are not dead, come and burst again later.

Invulnerabilities need to be nerfed, but only if dmg output across the board is nerfed.

Also high damage and low damage are both problematic…
It needs to be balanced in the middle. high damage is problematic because there is like 0 chance of escape once you are focused on by 2 or 3. It promotes zerg.

Low damage is problematic because 1. long fights are boring and 2. it takes so long to kill off your enemy that zerg has enough time to focus on you.

This is what they need to do

1. decrease damage across the board (means all classes)
2. decrease trash effects and skill less interrupts that are way too spammable. (as if 3v1 wasn’t hard enough as it is)
3. decrease effectiveness of invulnerabilities. , especially not being able to stun someone. This isn’t a problem if we get rid of all the extra junk interrupts that seemed to pop up.

With these measures in place, dodging and well timed interrupts become much more important. Instead of this press a button now all my cc and skillful interrups don’t work.

So instead of me skillfully dodging an onslaught of warriors stuns and damage dealing abilities, then placing a perfectly timed tripwire, basilisk venom, etc, only to have the warrior not skillfully dodge it, but just hit a panic button and be able to invuln/ heal rotation…. instead of this< make skillfull abilities more important and let the mindless passives fade away.

This is all in the understanding that damage needs to be reduced. If the above mentioned is not fixed along with damage… then thief will simply not exist.

Jana.6831:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

so let me recap for you… there I am wandering around looking for the thief. “poof” thief appears next to me, does 18k dmg in less than 1.5 seconds and “poof” back into stealth. I spam everything in gods creation to clear condi, heal and keep from being downed by it, placing 60% of all my utilitys and virtues on a 30+ second cooldown, then 5 seconds later, “poof” thief appears again, bursts another 18k damage and laughs as I lay there a burning/poisoned heap…. this is broken and needs fixed. no one should be able to do 40k burst damage in a total of less than 3 seconds visible time, and another 5 seconds stealthed…

Everybody does an insane amount of damage right now because anet have broken their game. Other than that thieves have always fought like this.

Exactly this! Before, you could still counter and MAYBE if you’re good enough you survive and win. Now, whoever bursts first, wins. So it’s basically an initiative fight and stealth offers LOADS of initiative since only the thief can dictate the fight.

Thieves are choiceless as well, they need to concentrate on dealing as much damage in a window of a couple of seconds before they re-stealth so as to avoid death. Wait for their cooldowns then burst again dictating the pace of the fight.

The other classes need to concentrate on damage as well so when the thief comes out of stealth you can deal your entire burst in a couple of seconds as well before the thief re-stealths.

So all in all, everybody goes zerk/full condi, damage builds that deal damage REALLY quickly. No variety.

ThePaladin.2140:

Exactly this! Before, you could still counter and MAYBE if you’re good enough you survive and win. Now, whoever bursts first, wins. So it’s basically an initiative fight and stealth offers LOADS of initiative since only the thief can dictate the fight.

You have an invulnerability skill, unlike thieves, use it – or extend your complaint to the state of wvw right now in general as it’s not only thieves who burst.

ThePaladin.2140:

Thieves are choiceless as well, they need to concentrate on dealing as much damage in a window of a couple of seconds before they re-stealth so as to avoid death. Wait for their cooldowns then burst again dictating the pace of the fight.

Did you know you can hit thieves while they’re stealthed? Did you also know that they have got no reliable condi removal since the patch anymore?

Jana.6831:

ThePaladin.2140:

Exactly this! Before, you could still counter and MAYBE if you’re good enough you survive and win. Now, whoever bursts first, wins. So it’s basically an initiative fight and stealth offers LOADS of initiative since only the thief can dictate the fight.

You have an invulnerability skill, unlike thieves, use it – or extend your complaint to the state of wvw right now in general as it’s not only thieves who burst.

ThePaladin.2140:

Thieves are choiceless as well, they need to concentrate on dealing as much damage in a window of a couple of seconds before they re-stealth so as to avoid death. Wait for their cooldowns then burst again dictating the pace of the fight.

Did you know you can hit thieves while they’re stealthed? Did you also know that they have got no reliable condi removal since the patch anymore?

So it’s burst condi or bust. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m not complaining about thieves alone. I’m more concerned about the sad state of affairs regarding the current meta being heavy burst plus the fact that they have stealth which gives them a significant advantage.

For sure let them keep stealth but let’s reign in the condi+damage on everybody so as to avoid everyone going zerk or bust.

dun worry paladin. im sure there’ll be less and less of us with time. once Anet nerfed our Stealth and condi removals people will be either offline or playing other classes. imma just roll braindead ranger and pewpew. if Anet will not change this then like 30-40% thieves gonna just quit

ThePaladin.2140:

So it’s burst condi or bust. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m not complaining about thieves alone. I’m more concerned about the sad state of affairs regarding the current meta being heavy burst plus the fact that they have stealth which gives them a significant advantage.

For sure let them keep stealth but let’s reign in the condi+damage on everybody so as to avoid everyone going zerk or bust.

Yes, I agree – the patch was a disaster but it was forseeable.
Maybe they nerf it again or maybe they just nerf certain classes but wvw is unplayable right now, no matter with which class. And who knows when it will change again or how long it will take until we get to the nearly “perfect” state the game had before this patch.

Funny. I tried a sentinel build with a lot of healing. Still died the same way and almost the same uptime as the burst mediguard. So “tanking” is basically useless. Everybody melts in 5 seconds or less, even more so now these days.

OP seriously what are you talking about? I also play medi guard and melting/BBQing thieves is easier than ever.

their condi remove no longer cures immob so just land a scepter/hammer immob after withdraw and burst stealth wont clear it. even if you were so incompetent to not be able to pressure a thief have your smite condition/smiter’s boon, retal and shattered aegis do it for you.
sentinel with a lot of healing? what is the point if your counter pressure is zeros. clearly something is wrong with either your play-style, understanding of your tools or your build.

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

so let me recap for you… there I am wandering around looking for the thief. “poof” thief appears next to me, does 18k dmg in less than 1.5 seconds and “poof” back into stealth. I spam everything in gods creation to clear condi, heal and keep from being downed by it, placing 60% of all my utilitys and virtues on a 30+ second cooldown, then 5 seconds later, “poof” thief appears again, bursts another 18k damage and laughs as I lay there a burning/poisoned heap…. this is broken and needs fixed. no one should be able to do 40k burst damage in a total of less than 3 seconds visible time, and another 5 seconds stealthed…

The thief needs some serious work – totally agreed. I just hope they get round to it sooner rather than later as its attracting the worst sort of people – the player that is purely playing the class to annoy as many players as possible.

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

About what I saw here written I think they should be worried about every class/specc ^^
Thinking sentinel-amu gonna do the work is hilarious.
“Furthermore, I’ve seen 2 thieves duel, and even they couldn’t kill each other. Took a long long time! Any thoughts on this everybody?”
SA with a lot of (full) valkyrie or soldier? Yeah, that could take some time especially If they are both good or bad. If they are bad they wont be capable to do damage correctly to down the other one. If they are good they can stealth to full health every time. Blame Shadows rejuvination (what we need now with all that damage flying around).

CorrynnStarr.7942:

so let me recap for you… there I am wandering around looking for the thief. “poof” thief appears next to me, does 18k dmg in less than 1.5 seconds and “poof” back into stealth. I spam everything in gods creation to clear condi, heal and keep from being downed by it, placing 60% of all my utilitys and virtues on a 30+ second cooldown, then 5 seconds later, “poof” thief appears again, bursts another 18k damage and laughs as I lay there a burning/poisoned heap…. this is broken and needs fixed. no one should be able to do 40k burst damage in a total of less than 3 seconds visible time, and another 5 seconds stealthed…

So you went panic-mode and wasted everything you had, what makes you to be a bad player? As a guard you normally have TWO times invulnerability, good heal, good CC, passive damage through reteliation and a lot of blocks. At the end you are exaggerating and should look if you had armor on you, know what the thief did exactly, what your skills are doing and learn to read the combat log.

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

While I have taken every profession to 80 invcluding the mesmer, I would never consider myself a great Mesmer player. 80 percent of my time is on thief.

So last night I take my first look at my mesmer in the new system and rebuild him. That 100 percent to stealth duration caused my jaw to drop. I than set him up as a Condi PU mesmer build , which I had not played before, and went into WvW.

SO easy. Of all the classes I have tried in the new system this was the easiest and deadliest out of the gate. I was 1v4ing guys and not coming close to dying even as they got downed. Yeah they were poor players testing their own builds no doubt bt I am NOT good at mesmer either.

I than ran into other such mesmer builds and it was the same thing. 4 guys and more chasing them around and getting no where.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

OP seriously what are you talking about? I also play medi guard and melting/BBQing thieves is easier than ever.

their condi remove no longer cures immob so just land a scepter/hammer immob after withdraw and burst stealth wont clear it. even if you were so incompetent to not be able to pressure a thief have your smite condition/smiter’s boon, retal and shattered aegis do it for you.
sentinel with a lot of healing? what is the point if your counter pressure is zeros. clearly something is wrong with either your play-style, understanding of your tools or your build.

Might I ask what server do you represent and where do you roam? It might be we’re dealing with different playclass thieves.

babazhook.6805:

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

While I have taken every profession to 80 invcluding the mesmer, I would never consider myself a great Mesmer player. 80 percent of my time is on thief.

So last night I take my first look at my mesmer in the new system and rebuild him. That 100 percent to stealth duration caused my jaw to drop. I than set him up as a Condi PU mesmer build , which I had not played before, and went into WvW.

SO easy. Of all the classes I have tried in the new system this was the easiest and deadliest out of the gate. I was 1v4ing guys and not coming close to dying even as they got downed. Yeah they were poor players testing their own builds no doubt bt I am NOT good at mesmer either.

I than ran into other such mesmer builds and it was the same thing. 4 guys and more chasing them around and getting no where.

This right here is why stealth is a BIG draw to your initiative.

Really? I whole-heartedly disagree. I believe this game offers too many comeback mechanics to respond to a thief’s opener, after which they are fairly easy to deal with. In sPvP at least, if a thief opens on my ranger, they either have to kill me instantly or they will lose. They won’t kill me instantly, no build can pull that off.

ThePaladin.2140:

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

OP seriously what are you talking about? I also play medi guard and melting/BBQing thieves is easier than ever.

their condi remove no longer cures immob so just land a scepter/hammer immob after withdraw and burst stealth wont clear it. even if you were so incompetent to not be able to pressure a thief have your smite condition/smiter’s boon, retal and shattered aegis do it for you.
sentinel with a lot of healing? what is the point if your counter pressure is zeros. clearly something is wrong with either your play-style, understanding of your tools or your build.

Might I ask what server do you represent and where do you roam? It might be we’re dealing with different playclass thieves.

babazhook.6805:

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

While I have taken every profession to 80 invcluding the mesmer, I would never consider myself a great Mesmer player. 80 percent of my time is on thief.

So last night I take my first look at my mesmer in the new system and rebuild him. That 100 percent to stealth duration caused my jaw to drop. I than set him up as a Condi PU mesmer build , which I had not played before, and went into WvW.

SO easy. Of all the classes I have tried in the new system this was the easiest and deadliest out of the gate. I was 1v4ing guys and not coming close to dying even as they got downed. Yeah they were poor players testing their own builds no doubt bt I am NOT good at mesmer either.

I than ran into other such mesmer builds and it was the same thing. 4 guys and more chasing them around and getting no where.

This right here is why stealth is a BIG draw to your initiative.

If a thief uses his Initiative on stealth all the time he will have little left for his attacks. Further to that while stealthed he does not have clones and illusions out there doing damage. Added to that the thief is only ONE target not several that the mesmer can create with illusions and clones.

Now I have dealt with a lot of thieves that rely on stealth and while my current iteration does not use stealth have played one. They are much easier to counter and predict.

It is pretty amusing that stealth is probably the most hated mechanic in the game, but anet made it even better than before and now every thief can run full SA where previously you had to sacrifice damage for it.
And at the same time they nerfed the non stealth builds. Go figure.

ThePaladin.2140:

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

OP seriously what are you talking about? I also play medi guard and melting/BBQing thieves is easier than ever.

their condi remove no longer cures immob so just land a scepter/hammer immob after withdraw and burst stealth wont clear it. even if you were so incompetent to not be able to pressure a thief have your smite condition/smiter’s boon, retal and shattered aegis do it for you.
sentinel with a lot of healing? what is the point if your counter pressure is zeros. clearly something is wrong with either your play-style, understanding of your tools or your build.

Might I ask what server do you represent and where do you roam? It might be we’re dealing with different playclass thieves.

babazhook.6805:

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

While I have taken every profession to 80 invcluding the mesmer, I would never consider myself a great Mesmer player. 80 percent of my time is on thief.

So last night I take my first look at my mesmer in the new system and rebuild him. That 100 percent to stealth duration caused my jaw to drop. I than set him up as a Condi PU mesmer build , which I had not played before, and went into WvW.

SO easy. Of all the classes I have tried in the new system this was the easiest and deadliest out of the gate. I was 1v4ing guys and not coming close to dying even as they got downed. Yeah they were poor players testing their own builds no doubt bt I am NOT good at mesmer either.

I than ran into other such mesmer builds and it was the same thing. 4 guys and more chasing them around and getting no where.

This right here is why stealth is a BIG draw to your initiative.

My server is mentioned in my signature and I roam the borderlands, rarely do I visit eb.

The stealth issue is something i really don’t understand. Burst, do over 10k, stealth so there is nothing the other non stealth class can react to, come back, do another 10k stealth…i mean it is absurd. That is why of all the defensive mechanics on thief i assumed stealth would be the one that would get limited.

I expected more emphasis to be put on active defense such as blind, ports and evades so its no longer a game of hide and seek but a test of reaction time and decision making. It did not cross my mind that Anet would be so blind enough to encourage unskillful gameplay like stealth spamming so this Acro nerf really came as a shock.

Theres nothing more painful to watch than 2 dp stealth reliant thieves fighting. or one of them fighting a class like necro. Necro is always the one that is forced to waste staff and wells cooldowns while thief is invisible just to avoid or mitigate the high damage attack advantage. Often times youll see a guardian waste shield of wrath to avoid the same thing.

Blinds can be countered by, condition transfer, condi conversion and fast cleanses like smite conditions . Evades can be countered by well timed skills, pressure and conditions but Stealth can only be countered by sheer luck or revealed that either not every class has access to or those who have access to it has to sacrifice something important.

A few weeks ago Devs were talking about putting emphasis on skillful gameplay like steal shortening trap cd and stuff happening when you meet certain conditions, i was silently rejoicing thinking we are going to see dynamic play at its finest, no more passive damage negation like endure pain, signet of stone and excessive access to stealth. Wow was I wrong.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

ThePaladin.2140:

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

OP seriously what are you talking about? I also play medi guard and melting/BBQing thieves is easier than ever.

their condi remove no longer cures immob so just land a scepter/hammer immob after withdraw and burst stealth wont clear it. even if you were so incompetent to not be able to pressure a thief have your smite condition/smiter’s boon, retal and shattered aegis do it for you.
sentinel with a lot of healing? what is the point if your counter pressure is zeros. clearly something is wrong with either your play-style, understanding of your tools or your build.

Might I ask what server do you represent and where do you roam? It might be we’re dealing with different playclass thieves.

babazhook.6805:

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

While I have taken every profession to 80 invcluding the mesmer, I would never consider myself a great Mesmer player. 80 percent of my time is on thief.

So last night I take my first look at my mesmer in the new system and rebuild him. That 100 percent to stealth duration caused my jaw to drop. I than set him up as a Condi PU mesmer build , which I had not played before, and went into WvW.

SO easy. Of all the classes I have tried in the new system this was the easiest and deadliest out of the gate. I was 1v4ing guys and not coming close to dying even as they got downed. Yeah they were poor players testing their own builds no doubt bt I am NOT good at mesmer either.

I than ran into other such mesmer builds and it was the same thing. 4 guys and more chasing them around and getting no where.

This right here is why stealth is a BIG draw to your initiative.

My server is mentioned in my signature and I roam the borderlands, rarely do I visit eb.

I’m on blackgate and T1 is a totally different story my friend. Thieves there who roam melt faces.

Ragion.2831:

The stealth issue is something i really don’t understand. Burst, do over 10k, stealth so there is nothing the other non stealth class can react to, come back, do another 10k stealth…i mean it is absurd. That is why of all the defensive mechanics on thief i assumed stealth would be the one that would get limited.

I expected more emphasis to be put on active defense such as blind, ports and evades so its no longer a game of hide and seek but a test of reaction time and decision making. It did not cross my mind that Anet would be so blind enough to encourage unskillful gameplay like stealth spamming so this Acro nerf really came as a shock.

Theres nothing more painful to watch than 2 dp stealth reliant thieves fighting. or one of them fighting a class like necro. Necro is always the one that is forced to waste staff and wells cooldowns while thief is invisible just to avoid or mitigate the high damage attack advantage. Often times youll see a guardian waste shield of wrath to avoid the same thing.

Blinds can be countered by, condition transfer, condi conversion and fast cleanses like smite conditions . Evades can be countered by well timed skills, pressure and conditions but Stealth can only be countered by sheer luck or revealed that either not every class has access to or those who have access to it has to sacrifice something important.

A few weeks ago Devs were talking about putting emphasis on skillful gameplay like steal shortening trap cd and stuff happening when you meet certain conditions, i was silently rejoicing thinking we are going to see dynamic play at its finest, no more passive damage negation like endure pain, signet of stone and excessive access to stealth. Wow was I wrong.

THIS! Ever wonder why non detection is the primary concern of most modern military engagements? It provides a significant initiative advantage as I have stated. Good if you can counter AFTER they’ve made their move, but the way stealth and damage interact in the new system is absolutely ridiculous.

ThePaladin.2140:

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

ThePaladin.2140:

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

OP seriously what are you talking about? I also play medi guard and melting/BBQing thieves is easier than ever.

their condi remove no longer cures immob so just land a scepter/hammer immob after withdraw and burst stealth wont clear it. even if you were so incompetent to not be able to pressure a thief have your smite condition/smiter’s boon, retal and shattered aegis do it for you.
sentinel with a lot of healing? what is the point if your counter pressure is zeros. clearly something is wrong with either your play-style, understanding of your tools or your build.

Might I ask what server do you represent and where do you roam? It might be we’re dealing with different playclass thieves.

babazhook.6805:

Nephrite.6954:

PU mesmers are farrrr more dangerous now compared to thieves. They’ve got bigger burst and better escape thanks to longer stealth duration. I’d worry about them more.

While I have taken every profession to 80 invcluding the mesmer, I would never consider myself a great Mesmer player. 80 percent of my time is on thief.

So last night I take my first look at my mesmer in the new system and rebuild him. That 100 percent to stealth duration caused my jaw to drop. I than set him up as a Condi PU mesmer build , which I had not played before, and went into WvW.

SO easy. Of all the classes I have tried in the new system this was the easiest and deadliest out of the gate. I was 1v4ing guys and not coming close to dying even as they got downed. Yeah they were poor players testing their own builds no doubt bt I am NOT good at mesmer either.

I than ran into other such mesmer builds and it was the same thing. 4 guys and more chasing them around and getting no where.

This right here is why stealth is a BIG draw to your initiative.

My server is mentioned in my signature and I roam the borderlands, rarely do I visit eb.

I’m on blackgate and T1 is a totally different story my friend. Thieves there who roam melt faces.

Ragion.2831:

The stealth issue is something i really don’t understand. Burst, do over 10k, stealth so there is nothing the other non stealth class can react to, come back, do another 10k stealth…i mean it is absurd. That is why of all the defensive mechanics on thief i assumed stealth would be the one that would get limited.

I expected more emphasis to be put on active defense such as blind, ports and evades so its no longer a game of hide and seek but a test of reaction time and decision making. It did not cross my mind that Anet would be so blind enough to encourage unskillful gameplay like stealth spamming so this Acro nerf really came as a shock.

Theres nothing more painful to watch than 2 dp stealth reliant thieves fighting. or one of them fighting a class like necro. Necro is always the one that is forced to waste staff and wells cooldowns while thief is invisible just to avoid or mitigate the high damage attack advantage. Often times youll see a guardian waste shield of wrath to avoid the same thing.

Blinds can be countered by, condition transfer, condi conversion and fast cleanses like smite conditions . Evades can be countered by well timed skills, pressure and conditions but Stealth can only be countered by sheer luck or revealed that either not every class has access to or those who have access to it has to sacrifice something important.

A few weeks ago Devs were talking about putting emphasis on skillful gameplay like steal shortening trap cd and stuff happening when you meet certain conditions, i was silently rejoicing thinking we are going to see dynamic play at its finest, no more passive damage negation like endure pain, signet of stone and excessive access to stealth. Wow was I wrong.

THIS! Ever wonder why non detection is the primary concern of most modern military engagements? It provides a significant initiative advantage as I have stated. Good if you can counter AFTER they’ve made their move, but the way stealth and damage interact in the new system is absolutely ridiculous.

Thieves are the same everywhere. I have another Account on piken and thieves are no different and actually find the ones i face on my main account better sometimes. It is the same 3 builds that reign with variations in survive-ability choices through gear/rune/food. If they hit hard you will hit harder and catch them when they over extend. if you are running a burst build and allow a defensive battle you wont be the one winning. so instead of complaining how about you post your build? the thief build you are having trouble with? how you go about your fight? what do you know about the class to help you predict the flow of their moves? you are looking for advice/help aren’t you? so help us to help you

Thieves are the same everywhere. I have another Account on piken and thieves are no different and actually find the ones i face on my main account better sometimes. It is the same 3 builds that reign with variations in survive-ability choices through gear/rune/food. If they hit hard you will hit harder and catch them when they over extend. if you are running a burst build and allow a defensive battle you wont be the one winning. so instead of complaining how about you post your build? the thief build you are having trouble with? how you go about your fight? what do you know about the class to help you predict the flow of their moves? you are looking for advice/help aren’t you? so help us to help you

As stated this is no complaint against thieves and not a gameplay thing. It’s the system that I’m questioning. Heavy burst damage with conditions on something that stealths 90% of the time and will continue to have an initiative advantage. Not looking for help, I can handle myself pretty well thank you very much. It’s the idea I’m concerned with. Not everything especially systemwide can be answered by “Git Gud Nub!”.