Guild Wars 2

In light of the upcoming changes to the traits I wanted to see people’s opinon on P/P and the trait Ricochet.

I think I always wanted Thief to get a 1200 range weapon like the other classes, and I still hope we will get a new weapon with that much range for our new Specialization, but if that’s not the case, maybe Ricochet has the potential to take us there and maybe it could give us a viable build for P/P.

So, I suggest to increase the bonus range to 300 instead of 150.

Ricochet:
Pistols shots have 50% chance to bounce to up to 3 additional targets. Pistol range is increase by 300.

Please discuss, thanks!

Yes.
Charrrrrrrrrrrrs.

Ricochet already bounces far enough…so, unfortunately, I have to say no.

That would be awesome!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ricochet already bounces far enough…so, unfortunately, I have to say no.

It might bounce, but your first bullet is still at the set range and won’t hit unless you respect that range, and then If it hits it will bounce if there are other targets nearby.

You can compare this trait to Mesmer GS Mirror Blade, which has 1200 by default and bounces (although this is not an auto attack, it has very short cd). You may also trait to have additional bounces.

Therefore, given that there is something similar in the game already, I don’t feel like the bounce effect is a good enough reason to say no, but there could be other reasons of course.

Lady Minuit.3186:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ricochet already bounces far enough…so, unfortunately, I have to say no.

It might bounce, but your first bullet is still at the set range and won’t hit unless you respect that range, and then If it hits it will bounce if there are other targets nearby.

You can compare this trait to Mesmer GS Mirror Blade, which has 1200 by default and bounces (although this is not an auto attack, it has very short cd). You may also trait to have additional bounces.

Therefore, given that there is something similar in the game already, I don’t feel like the bounce effect is a good enough reason to say no, but there could be other reasons of course.

Mirror Blade’s bounce is nothing compare to Unload + Ricochet bounce.

Apples and oranges.

I’m sick of Thief being stuck with the shortest range in the game. To no purpose! I’ve heard all the bologna about Stealing, shadow stepping, etc. None of it flies with me. Thieves deserve to have a 1200 range land weapon in the game. Ricochet is kind of annoying in that, while it gives a slight range bonus, still leaves us short of 1200 range AND forces a bounce effect on us of dubious nature.

Not to mention the sheer absurdity of certain range comparisons: apparently, Engineers can chuck grenades further then I can shoot a pistol…. or they can shoot a rifle ~_~

Ghost Bear.5280:

Not to mention the sheer absurdity of certain range comparisons: apparently, Engineers can chuck grenades further then I can shoot a pistol…. or they can shoot a rifle ~_~

:C

It would make up for the massive P/P nerf of removing IP + Ricochet combo. ;/

Turk.5460:

Ghost Bear.5280:

Not to mention the sheer absurdity of certain range comparisons: apparently, Engineers can chuck grenades further then I can shoot a pistol…. or they can shoot a rifle ~_~

:C

That’s nothing compare to Warriors — they have two 1200 range weapons. They shouldn’t have had the Rifle. It should have been exclusive to Medium Armor wearer — just like the shortbow.

As long as p/p is split between condi and power with no evade or stealth on the weapon set, and with unload as the only skill that deals decent power damage, the set will always be subpar to everything no matter what traits you take for it. Except maybe zerging but why would you want to zerg as a thief?

Maybe they will change some pistol skills with the specialization patch seeing how d/d will gravitate to the condi/hybrid role with potent poison and the poison stacking change.

foste.3098:

Maybe they will change some pistol skills with the specialization patch seeing how d/d will gravitate to the condi/hybrid role with potent poison and the poison stacking change.

This, basically, is what I’m hoping for. Especially since my Thief’s main set is a combo of zerker/valk/cav … a pure power-spec P/P set would be pretty darn beastly.

As for the idea of improving Richochet. Maybe any “concerns” can be sidestepped by boosting Pistol range. Then you can keep Richochet “as is?”

Not the worst suggestion ever, but here’s the problem with it -

As a trait in a vacuum, Ricochet is already arguably too powerful. Fixing broken weapons through traits is not only a bad idea conceptually, but the developers already stated they wanted to avoid doing that.

What they need to do to address P/P is address weaknesses directly in its skills so that it’s not crappy at baseline and dependent on an OP trait to be useful. Most importantly, it needs to not be so dependent on Unload to even maintain mediocre DPS.

As simple solutions go, there is one that is quite obvious, and that is to buff Vital Shot’s direct damage by about 33-50% and reduce its bleed damage by about 15-25%, essentially making it the opposite of the sneak attack. This would more or less balance out for P/D across most builds while being a substantial buff for P/P across most builds.

It would take more than changes to Vital Shot to fix P/P. It’s overall damage output is low if you build either power OR condition. However, for hybrid builds, P/P is just where it should be.

The underlying question is, why is Unload physical damage only? Why not make it deal bleeds also?

If they change Unload to also deal bleeding damage, it will finally end the speculation that it is a power-based weapon set.

Besides, it never made sense when Vital Shot and Sneak Attack cause bleeding but Unloading multiple bullets does not.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

It would take more than changes to Vital Shot to fix P/P. It’s overall damage output is low if you build either power OR condition. However, for hybrid builds, P/P is just where it should be.

The underlying question is, why is Unload physical damage only? Why not make it deal bleeds also?

If they change Unload to also deal bleeding damage, it will finally end the speculation that it is a power-based weapon set.

Besides, it never made sense when Vital Shot and Sneak Attack cause bleeding but Unloading multiple bullets does not.

It’s a fair point. I’ve always thought Unload was a little underwhelming as well and found P/P to work best with a hybrid build. Its damage is still on the low side though because Vital Shot is under-tuned no matter how you build.

The only thing I would say is a boon is the high hit rate on Unload making P/P an above average set for effect procs.

Einlanzer.1627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

It would take more than changes to Vital Shot to fix P/P. It’s overall damage output is low if you build either power OR condition. However, for hybrid builds, P/P is just where it should be.

The underlying question is, why is Unload physical damage only? Why not make it deal bleeds also?

If they change Unload to also deal bleeding damage, it will finally end the speculation that it is a power-based weapon set.

Besides, it never made sense when Vital Shot and Sneak Attack cause bleeding but Unloading multiple bullets does not.

It’s a fair point. I’ve always thought Unload was a little underwhelming as well and found P/P to work best with a hybrid build. Its damage is still on the low side though because Vital Shot is under-tuned no matter how you build.

The only thing I would say is a boon is the high hit rate on Unload making P/P an above average set for effect procs.

It quite true that P/P can only begin to compete with other power sets when it used when proc on crit effects taking advantage of the high number of shots off unload. It can not DO as much damage but it gets much closer and this predicated on a high crit rate.

Now the problem is crit rates for p/p will drop as there no longer practiced tolerance available and the trait line for IP will no longer add critical chance. This will make P/P less effective as a power weapon.

Leave vital shot as is. Leave sneak attack as is.

Add to vital shot.

33 percent chance on critical to gain fury for two seconds. Fury will not really help the P/d build relying on conditions but will help p/d power or P/P.

There an adept trait called Invigorating Bulwark for a mace in Guardian line. Perhaps something similar added to P/P unload where it can stack UP to 10 stacks of ferocity (100 total) for 10 seconds on Crit.