Highest soloQ rank – #2
Opportunist & December 10th Patch
Jon (or any Anet staff),
Please reconsider the proposed changes to opportunist. This trait encourages thieves to stay in combat which is apparently what you are trying to accomplish in the December 10th patch. Moreover, destroying this trait with a 5 second ICD hurts so many builds which aren’t d/p or s/d (what seems to be the main focus of your warpath). So please don’t change this trait or at least don’t make the ICD 5 seconds; that’s totally unreasonable.
I agree, this minor trait is fine as it is I dont see a reason to nerf every single init gain trait that thieves have, it is simply to drastic.
For some reason, you guys “shave” some professions with a feather and others with a katana…
i doubt they will reconsider anything at that point…they are nerfing the class that is already undesired…. lol
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
If we get enough response they will hopefully look at the thread and maybe reconsider their decision. I encourage as many to post here as possible. We must be heard!
Highest soloQ rank – #2
Someone over at the gw2guru forum wrote a program to calculate to compare the init gain of Opportunist before and after the patch:
Results:
Against 1 foe, you’re basically exactly the same, doing 99.8% of current damage, with essentially the same number of unloads.
Against 2 foes, it’s 97.8% damage, and you’ve lost ~0.8 Unloads/minute.
Against 3 foes, it’s 96.8% damage, losing ~1.0 Unloads/minute.
Against 4 foes, is the same as ratios as against 3.So yes, it’s a nerf. But it’s only a 3.2% nerf when you were actually able to constantly fire into a crowd.
Well I doubt results of some simulation in which the methodology is extremely fuzzy especially since there have been numerous others who have posted more clear work with contradictory results. Overall, S/P and P/P will be hurt by this change a lot and they are some of the weaker sets as it is now anyway.
Highest soloQ rank – #2
Do you have any links to those?
Cause so far any numbers I’ve seen that look reliable indicate a init generation buff in the Dec. Patch:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/87008-changes-to-initiative-on-december-10th-preview/#entry2253455
Link you provided does not consider the Opportunist. The very thing this thread is about
Compare:
1 initiative. 50% on hit. 5 sec cooldown.
1 initiative. 30% on hit. 1 sec cooldown.
At some point (with high enough hits/second) this is a 80% nerf.
(edited by Ichishi.9613)
Sorry, the red names only post enough to make us think that they care – just enough to be able to say “We asked for feedback didn’t we?”.
The patch was already decided before they came in and “got feedback”. Just try to reimagine your builds, as it’s all that’s left for us to do.
Oh yeah, 80% nerf is before considering real situations where it can be a 100% nerf.
Sorry, the red names only post enough to make us think that they care – just enough to be able to say “We asked for feedback didn’t we?”.
The patch was already decided before they came in and “got feedback”. Just try to reimagine your builds, as it’s all that’s left for us to do.
Or just reroll. Don’t forget that they base much of their balancing on metrics. If the number of thief players drops enough it may force them to actually do something about this whole balance mess.
Sorry, the red names only post enough to make us think that they care – just enough to be able to say “We asked for feedback didn’t we?”.
The patch was already decided before they came in and “got feedback”. Just try to reimagine your builds, as it’s all that’s left for us to do.
Or just reroll. Don’t forget that they base much of their balancing on metrics. If the number of thief players drops enough it may force them to actually do something about this whole balance mess.
QFT.
As much as I hate to agree with such a dire option, it is indeed the most logical way out of this current situation. Hell, I had the exact opinion, regarding the original talk of NA Leagues (2 of 12 servers per).
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Link you provided does not consider the Opportunist. The very thing this thread is about
Compare:
1 initiative. 50% on hit. 5 sec cooldown.
1 initiative. 30% on hit. 1 sec cooldown.
At some point (with high enough hits/second) this is a 80% nerf.
Yes, if you have a 100% crit chance and attack an infinite number of times per second it’s a 80% nerf.
In a slightly more realistic setting, e.g. 100% crit chance and 4 attacks per second it’s already only roughly a 50% nerf.
And as quoted above, someone run a simulation for Ricochet Unload spamming, which is one of the build that is hit the hardest by this nerf, and according to his simulation it’s only a 0.2% to 3.2% nerf due to the passive regeneration buff.
I have already rolled a warrior, but it’s only level 23 at the moment.
It’s just the same old story, over and over. They want to nerf X specifically, but they use a machete instead of a scalpel. So instead of affecting X, they gut X, Y, and Z.
One of the few zerg utilities I have is blasting water fields, quite frequently in the middle of fights, where I’m hitting 5 enemies, crit’ing 3 of them every second or so, regaining 1 init every blast from Opportunist. So yeah, my regen is going to be cut in half by this “buff”.
We need p/p build buff hence we request you not to do opportunist nerf.
Oh well personnaly i’m trying to adapt through a weird d/d death blossom / SoM build, and surprisingly it gives pretty good results so far.
Sorry, the red names only post enough to make us think that they care – just enough to be able to say “We asked for feedback didn’t we?”.
The patch was already decided before they came in and “got feedback”. Just try to reimagine your builds, as it’s all that’s left for us to do.
Or just reroll. Don’t forget that they base much of their balancing on metrics. If the number of thief players drops enough it may force them to actually do something about this whole balance mess.
Their metrics have led to the December patch plans… Cut both ways.
OP’d thief, lol
Someone over at the gw2guru forum wrote a program to calculate to compare the init gain of Opportunist before and after the patch:
Results:
Against 1 foe, you’re basically exactly the same, doing 99.8% of current damage, with essentially the same number of unloads.
Against 2 foes, it’s 97.8% damage, and you’ve lost ~0.8 Unloads/minute.
Against 3 foes, it’s 96.8% damage, losing ~1.0 Unloads/minute.
Against 4 foes, is the same as ratios as against 3.So yes, it’s a nerf. But it’s only a 3.2% nerf when you were actually able to constantly fire into a crowd.
DesertRose, thanks for posting that. I wish he had shown his formulas because I cannot duplicate his results.
I’m not saying the guy in the link you posted is wrong, but I would like to see how he worked his figures out.
But just for fun, let’s say he’s right and the net result is a minor loss in both damage and initiative regen when you look at the change in base regen and opportunist. ANET is calling the change in base initiative gain a “huge” buff and if you look at it in isolation, sure, it is. But when you account for just one simultaneous nerf that reduces initiative regen, the buff is gone. Then there’s Klepto, Quick Recovery and Sig use to consider, all are getting nerfed.
How does this move satisfy the goal ANET set out to achieve of freeing up more trait options for thieves by reducing our dependence on traits that generate initiative?
Ultimately, if you rely on a lot of hits per second (what I would consider the active play style Anet is attempting to reward), this is going to suck.
On the other hand, watching game play footage of D/D thieves, I think they will feel like this is a buff.
For movement outside of combat (shortbow – 6, dagger – 2), this will feel like a buff because opportunist isn’t operating.
For a typical S/D thief that runs with Sig Use and/or Quick recovery, this is probably going to suck a lot.
For P/P thieves, this will feel like a nerf.
In the end, I do not see a scenario in which the Dec 10th changes, taken as a whole, amount to a “huge buff.”
Just my 2c.
Sanctum of Rall