Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing P/D for a long time now running with apothecary, carrion and settler gear sets. I switch between a mix of apoth/settler or full carrion.

I’m however curious if anyone has also tried full dire stat set in addition to trying gear with healing/vit/tough/condi.

Whats the noticeable differences? – does the toughness and vit added from dire overcome the healing from apoth/sett? I know the added condi damage will be much higher than apoth/sett.

I run full dire armor, 1 dire/1givers weapon, with dire+rabid trinkets and backpiece. 3k armor 21000 hp with guard stacks/bloodlust. 2k condi damage (with BL. 1900 without) and 76% duration.

I will never run anything else on p/d.

EDIT: missing 1 of my dire/rabid trinkets in the screenshot. 3k armor with p/d out and 3100 with SB. HP was 20,800.

Full dire is what I run and I am nearly immortal, even commanding. Zergs=no problem, and I love it, though settlers was one that skipped my mind, so May farm some and try it, keep you posted

Dire armor is the reason I think they’ll nerf P/D next. It’s not like thieves rely on crits to trigger conditions, so we don’t have to invest anything in precision to proc. On top of that, the damage portion is the main stat while the other 2 are purely defensive. I sort of think that’s what’s leading to the condi meta right now because there’s no real tradeoff like a direct damage build which requires 3 stats to be effective. It’s not a thief specific thing, it’s just a general condi thing. On top of the passive stat defense you have the thief active defenses. At least we don’t have the variety of conditions that the others do. If we could burst conditions like necros or engis the outcry would be horrendous.

Maugetarr.6823:

At least we don’t have the variety of conditions that the others do. If we could burst conditions like necros or engis the outcry would be horrendous.

This is the reason I don’t think it will receive any nerfs. Most of the condi thieves I’ve encountered don’t run perplexity so they really dont have much other than the bleeds themselves and some mild torment stacks. There isn’t much to buffer the bleeds. I also wouldn’t want any other conditions. I’ve been running P/D prior to the buff to shadow strike and even then it was a good set.

Plus, if they did nerf it you would have nothing left but burst builds.

You dont think they’d nerf shadowshot to have a cast time? Perhaps the retreat range is too far (based on sword changes these 2 seem possible). Maybe they decide that sneak attack has too many bleeds or the bleeds it has last too long.

Mordecai.6318:

Most of the condi thieves I’ve encountered don’t run perplexity so they really dont have much other than the bleeds themselves and some mild torment stacks.

Poison and weakness are fairly easy to add into the mix, as well as blind and cripple.

I’m investing in the dire – sounds all very good. And I thought I was already immortal in apoth. Just made my ascended weapons for dire. I’ll get back to this later.

The one thing that sets major rage to me is that the ascended gear stats are so stupid – why on earth did they stick that tiny offstat of precision onto the dire stat gear?? Also no pure carrion gear stat..

frans.8092:

Mordecai.6318:

Most of the condi thieves I’ve encountered don’t run perplexity so they really dont have much other than the bleeds themselves and some mild torment stacks.

Poison and weakness are fairly easy to add into the mix, as well as blind and cripple.

The blind instantly falls off and crippling is typically something I dont waste my initiative on unless i need to chase since I’m ranged. Poison does buffer it some (I’m using 10 in DA), but it still doesnt have as long as a duration as my bleeds do.

slender.1482:

I’m investing in the dire – sounds all very good. And I thought I was already immortal in apoth. Just made my ascended weapons for dire. I’ll get back to this later.

The one thing that sets major rage to me is that the ascended gear stats are so stupid – why on earth did they stick that tiny offstat of precision onto the dire stat gear?? Also no pure carrion gear stat..

That precision is from dire+rabid stats. Dire alone is Toughness/Vit/Condi Dmg.

p/d is a very defensive set.

Blind on Stealth
Heal in stealth
remove condi in stealth
Shadow strike gap creator
CND stealth+heal+blind+condi removal
dancing dagger keeps opponents slowed and away
immob keeps opponets pinned down
High hp
High toughness
high Healing

with all this…… thats pretty much standard…. id suggest using…

CARRION armor. it gives you atleast double dmg and going from 450 to over 1k on sneak attack really adds up. even normal auto attacks. you know how many sneak attacks you use and shadow shots>

if you are a new player yeah get that dire….. itll help a newer player stay alive much better.

mobility is low however i just use p/d p/d and on both daggers i use 50% engery on switch so every 8 secs i get one more evade…..that is basically the same as “energy on dodge trait” so now u dont have to spec into acrobats.

i run mug + slieght of hand for more healing and more dmg so power is better here.

basically run a dmg armor. its like telling a guardian to go shamans when hes using GS and S/F .. . . just not what he needs.

again all depends on your experience.

Travlane.5948:

p/d is a very defensive set.

Blind on Stealth
Heal in stealth
remove condi in stealth
Shadow strike gap creator
CND stealth+heal+blind+condi removal
dancing dagger keeps opponents slowed and away
immob keeps opponets pinned down
High hp
High toughness
high Healing

with all this…… thats pretty much standard…. id suggest using…

CARRION armor. it gives you atleast double dmg and going from 450 to over 1k on sneak attack really adds up. even normal auto attacks. you know how many sneak attacks you use and shadow shots>

if you are a new player yeah get that dire….. itll help a newer player stay alive much better.

mobility is low however i just use p/d p/d and on both daggers i use 50% engery on switch so every 8 secs i get one more evade…..that is basically the same as “energy on dodge trait” so now u dont have to spec into acrobats.

i run mug + slieght of hand for more healing and more dmg so power is better here.

basically run a dmg armor. its like telling a guardian to go shamans when hes using GS and S/F .. . . just not what he needs.

again all depends on your experience.

I’m glad you made your appearance here again just to judge someone elses skill set by the armor attributes they choose. I’ve got 1.5k hours on thief. That’s far from new and I use the dire prefix. I’ve also won a notable amount of duels against notable players from amazing guilds in T1.

It does not depend on your experience. Carrion was the only prefix available when I started running P/D 5 months ago. I ran the weapon set just fine being brand new to the set and its play style. The difference is I have never been hit for more than 5800 on a backstab using dire, ever. Whereas, 8k was frequent with carrion. If you want to talk about things “adding up” then you should probably think about the damage you’re taking, considering its significantly higher. Condition thieves are mostly attrition based.

The best offense is a good defense. Welcome to biggest, yet true cliche ever.

Lastly,

p/d is a very defensive set.

Correct. So why use offensive armor?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYFmI4e40k2UvHfdsmVrANB-jUBBIhCiZoFRjtsuIasaGYaUER1SBAz0I-w

1600 power/2600 attack is laughable for anything trying to do actual damage.

Whenever I ran a normal P/D build, i generally ran healing sets, It might not seem like, but if you’re running around with 1k healing power, all those heals you have add up very quickly.

Again, the Carrion vs. Dire is purely down to player preference. Both works, and pick one suited to your play style.

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d is a very defensive set.

Blind on Stealth
Heal in stealth
remove condi in stealth
Shadow strike gap creator
CND stealth+heal+blind+condi removal
dancing dagger keeps opponents slowed and away
immob keeps opponets pinned down
High hp
High toughness
high Healing

with all this…… thats pretty much standard…. id suggest using…

CARRION armor. it gives you atleast double dmg and going from 450 to over 1k on sneak attack really adds up. even normal auto attacks. you know how many sneak attacks you use and shadow shots>

if you are a new player yeah get that dire….. itll help a newer player stay alive much better.

mobility is low however i just use p/d p/d and on both daggers i use 50% engery on switch so every 8 secs i get one more evade…..that is basically the same as “energy on dodge trait” so now u dont have to spec into acrobats.

i run mug + slieght of hand for more healing and more dmg so power is better here.

basically run a dmg armor. its like telling a guardian to go shamans when hes using GS and S/F .. . . just not what he needs.

again all depends on your experience.

I’m glad you made your appearance here again just to judge someone elses skill set by the armor attributes they choose. I’ve got 1.5k hours on thief. That’s far from new and I use the dire prefix. I’ve also won a notable amount of duels against notable players from amazing guilds in T1.

It does not depend on your experience. Carrion was the only prefix available when I started running P/D 5 months ago. I ran the weapon set just fine being brand new to the set and its play style. The difference is I have never been hit for more than 5800 on a backstab using dire, ever. Whereas, 8k was frequent with carrion. If you want to talk about things “adding up” then you should probably think about the damage you’re taking, considering its significantly higher. Condition thieves are mostly attrition based.

The best offense is a good defense. Welcome to biggest, yet true cliche ever.

Lastly,

p/d is a very defensive set.

Correct. So why use offensive armor?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYFmI4e40k2UvHfdsmVrANB-jUBBIhCiZoFRjtsuIasaGYaUER1SBAz0I-w

1600 power/2600 attack is laughable for anything trying to do actual damage.

i give more than just your one sided view. you think dire is better i think carrion is better. who is right? well i supposed that depends on goals and playstyle/experience. my thief has 4400 hours logged. screen shot is available. 3 legendies (incin,quip,dreamer and firebringer) while finishing my 4th. full ascended now for a while and lots n lots of everything else extras etc etc.

still dont see how you need the extra “toughness” when its so defensive. its literally the most defensive build a thief can have. high HP high toughness high healing high blinds etc etc. so yeah. prolly a good idea to bring a toughness set of armor to really boost the build where its weak right? hrm….. well its ok if u need the toughness. some players do. but its also good to let other people know theres another side. why are you so narrow minded and spiteful. your views arent any more correct than anyone elses. thats why they are YOUR views. and mine are….well…mine. this is a public forum and people come here to ask questionslike this for thieves just like me. so if u think yours is better….fine. no need to even bring me up. almost like you have a lil…crush or something. plz refrain for attacking the person and just give advice to the OP. my post has nothing to do with you and never will so you have no need to respond. come correct.

@ OP. again its however much exp you have and how your playstyle is. if u have bad reaction time/ low exp yes dire is better. if u wanna actually be able to kill guardians and defensive players you will need a bit more dmg. if you [plan on going in zerg and fighting on the front line….none will help you. i suggest go SPVP and try out some amulets. see how it goes. youll get the hang out it!

I have to agree with Trav. Who cares? If you want more pressure, go Carrion. If you really want to bunker, go Dire. The whole, “This is the best and everything else can eff off” is what kills this class for me sometimes.

Right now, I run a mix (3dire/3 carrion – carrion weaps, rabid trinks, perplex runes) and do just fine. Shadowshot ain’t nothing to laugh at damage-wise.

Mordecai.6318:

I run full dire armor, 1 dire/1givers weapon, with dire+rabid trinkets and backpiece. 3k armor 21000 hp with guard stacks/bloodlust. 2k condi damage (with BL. 1900 without) and 76% duration.

I will never run anything else on p/d.

EDIT: missing 1 of my dire/rabid trinkets in the screenshot. 3k armor with p/d out and 3100 with SB. HP was 20,800.

guessing you will not say your runes/traits? ;p

If you plan on going the full bunker route, consider using Anti-toxin runes:

(1): +28 Condition Damage
(2): -4% condition duration applied to you.
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): -8% condition duration applied to you.
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): -12% condition duration applied to you. Gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds on incoming poison or torment (20s cooldown)

You’ll get to a point with toughness that you’d be better served by investing elsewhere. Having -24% condition duration is nice, and the 5 stacks of might would be up most of the time, with how much poison gets thrown around.

I have been P/D for a long time and used Carrion but I am currently using Dire. It’s simply more damage(power) versus more survivability(toughness). When I first hit 80 Carrion was the only option for my build. After Dire was available I purchased a set and I have like it so far. I have pretty much played both sets the same way….just something I really like about applying poisons and bleeds to my enemies.

As far as which is better? I would say it’s down to taste. I like them both.

Travlane.5948:

i give more than just your one sided view. you think dire is better i think carrion is better. who is right? well i supposed that depends on goals and playstyle/experience. my thief has 4400 hours logged. screen shot is available. 3 legendies (incin,quip,dreamer and firebringer) while finishing my 4th. full ascended now for a while and lots n lots of everything else extras etc etc.

You dont give more than a 1 sided view and you have a very skewed perspective. Every thread where I’ve ever said anything about dire you have came in with your counter argument of carrion. Which is fine, but don’t pretend like you advocated any different. And if I recall, carrion wasn’t even in the armor sets that the OP was curious about trying. So take your argument to a thread that wants a carrion comparison.

Also, what does legendaries have to do with anything? I have the same 3 legendaries in less than half the playtime. Irrelevant.

Travlane.5948:

still dont see how you need the extra “toughness” when its so defensive. its literally the most defensive build a thief can have. high HP high toughness high healing high blinds etc etc. so yeah. prolly a good idea to bring a toughness set of armor to really boost the build where its weak right? hrm….. well its ok if u need the toughness. some players do.

Here, since I apparently haven’t been as direct as possible. Why the extra toughness? If you cant answer that for yourself then you must be a god at this game. You must never take any damage, you must never get “trained” or “focused”, you must never miss a cloak and dagger or shadow strike, and you must time all of your dodges so perfectly that you avoid all CC. Perfect gameplay all the time.

Your build doesnt have high toughness. 1200 toughness/2300 armor is nothing. High blinds only occur if you’re traited for it, which was/is still a preference thing even after the initiative buff.

Travlane.5948:

@ OP. again its however much exp you have and how your playstyle is. if u have bad reaction time/ low exp yes dire is better. if u wanna actually be able to kill guardians and defensive players you will need a bit more dmg. if you [plan on going in zerg and fighting on the front line….none will help you. i suggest go SPVP and try out some amulets. see how it goes. youll get the hang out it!

…And you call me spiteful, yet you’re being completely condescending, all while misinterpreting facts. My reaction time is great and so is my experience. I can kill ANYTHING. Let me repeat, ANYTHING, guardians included, using dire. Why? Because I know how to set up bursts, because I land critical interrupts, etc. Stop making the argument that dire thieves just have absolutely zero damage. They have a kitten ton.

And please do not bring a condi thief into spvp. That might be the most laughable statement you’ve made Mr. 4k hours.

NyuuLucy.4307:

Mordecai.6318:

I run full dire armor, 1 dire/1givers weapon, with dire+rabid trinkets and backpiece. 3k armor 21000 hp with guard stacks/bloodlust. 2k condi damage (with BL. 1900 without) and 76% duration.

I will never run anything else on p/d.

EDIT: missing 1 of my dire/rabid trinkets in the screenshot. 3k armor with p/d out and 3100 with SB. HP was 20,800.

guessing you will not say your runes/traits? ;p

You can figure out the traits from the screenshot.

Fade.7658:

If you plan on going the full bunker route, consider using Anti-toxin runes:

(1): +28 Condition Damage
(2): -4% condition duration applied to you.
(3): +55 Condition Damage
(4): -8% condition duration applied to you.
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): -12% condition duration applied to you. Gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds on incoming poison or torment (20s cooldown)

You’ll get to a point with toughness that you’d be better served by investing elsewhere. Having -24% condition duration is nice, and the 5 stacks of might would be up most of the time, with how much poison gets thrown around.

I have this runeset purchased, but haven’t given it a try yet. I really need to.

I recently became a huge fan of the pistol/dagger combo and invested into full dire gear/weapons with dire trinkets comming next.
The only thing i’m missing is a build that goes with it.
I have played the venom share build for a while since that was the only build that featured pistol/dagger and it’s good fun! ..but there’s only so much you can do with it. I’m looking for a PvP / WvW build here that has a bit more utility.
Any help would be appreciated.

Ulalume.2470:

I recently became a huge fan of the pistol/dagger combo and invested into full dire gear/weapons with dire trinkets comming next.
The only thing i’m missing is a build that goes with it.
I have played the venom share build for a while since that was the only build that featured pistol/dagger and it’s good fun! ..but there’s only so much you can do with it. I’m looking for a PvP / WvW build here that has a bit more utility.
Any help would be appreciated.

you could go a few ways really.

5/0/30/15/20
0/0/30/20/20
10/0/30/0/30
5/0/30/20/15
20/0/30/0/20

I tend to run the first 2 trait builds, the poison on steal is a nice cover condition to have. dire armour, dire weapons, 4 runes of the afflicted, 2 runes of the krait or 2 centaur, 2 afflicted, 2 krait, or all undead runes. all of them work well together its just really your preference. runes of scavenging seem to be favored as well.

sigils is again preference. I put a venom duration sigil on my off hand to increase the duration and effectiveness from poison steal but this may not be to your liking.

heal, since I use signet of malice I have 2 apothecary rings and an apothecary amulet. 2 dire earrings. you cant go wrong with all dire or all carrion, withdrawl heal if you choose to not carry a stun breaker for an extra utility etc etc. heart of the mists, go there, its free, play around and see what suits you best. good luck.

Ulalume.2470:

I recently became a huge fan of the pistol/dagger combo and invested into full dire gear/weapons with dire trinkets comming next.
The only thing i’m missing is a build that goes with it.

Not sure about what utility you seek, but the basic P/D is 30 in Shadow Arts with Rejuvenation, Embrace and Cloaked. The rest is to be filled in as you like.
Lot’s of poison to add to the bleeds is nice, for damage as well as the healing reduction, I used Sigils of Doom (and dual P/D when engaging), +condition duration and +bleed duration where possible / needed, the Deadly Arts trait that extends poison duration and the 15 point DA minor to apply weakness on poision – which reduces their damage and endurance regen, and adds another condition to cover the bleeds. The rest is for acrobatics and/or trickses. No dodgetrops because it has little effect against players, betrays your position (sound and red circle) and may drop you into combat when travelling.

Shadow Refuge (off course), Withdraw, the 25% IMS signet and caltrops (for npc’s players tend to not stay in it) or blinding powder.

Those two posts above helped a great deal. Thanks ever so much.
I tried 0/0/30/20/20 at first and it already felt really great, even tho i had little to no idea which support skills to take.

Today i’m ready to try this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlYmiP3cy9E95EB3Dnm0m6zgsjV/gMB-jUDB4iYYNgoOCR0CYk0g00AUHI0HQZqFRjtgZIalPhVJjIqW3ATKAYWDA-w

I’m a bit hessitent to use steal, but i will have to learn using it frequently since it benefits greatly from this build.
I think i will also miss having “feline grace”. It feels good to have it… especially as a Charr
I kinda had 5 points left after having a good think about it and decided to put it into trickery for lead attacks.
I tend to have a little bit of initiative problems when i’m in the middle of a hot fight but that’s maybe just because i’m new to the class. It’s all about finding the right “rythm” i guess!

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

i give more than just your one sided view. you think dire is better i think carrion is better. who is right? well i supposed that depends on goals and playstyle/experience. my thief has 4400 hours logged. screen shot is available. 3 legendies (incin,quip,dreamer and firebringer) while finishing my 4th. full ascended now for a while and lots n lots of everything else extras etc etc.

You dont give more than a 1 sided view and you have a very skewed perspective. Every thread where I’ve ever said anything about dire you have came in with your counter argument of carrion. Which is fine, but don’t pretend like you advocated any different. And if I recall, carrion wasn’t even in the armor sets that the OP was curious about trying. So take your argument to a thread that wants a carrion comparison.

Also, what does legendaries have to do with anything? I have the same 3 legendaries in less than half the playtime. Irrelevant.

Travlane.5948:

still dont see how you need the extra “toughness” when its so defensive. its literally the most defensive build a thief can have. high HP high toughness high healing high blinds etc etc. so yeah. prolly a good idea to bring a toughness set of armor to really boost the build where its weak right? hrm….. well its ok if u need the toughness. some players do.

Here, since I apparently haven’t been as direct as possible. Why the extra toughness? If you cant answer that for yourself then you must be a god at this game. You must never take any damage, you must never get “trained” or “focused”, you must never miss a cloak and dagger or shadow strike, and you must time all of your dodges so perfectly that you avoid all CC. Perfect gameplay all the time.

Your build doesnt have high toughness. 1200 toughness/2300 armor is nothing. High blinds only occur if you’re traited for it, which was/is still a preference thing even after the initiative buff.

Travlane.5948:

@ OP. again its however much exp you have and how your playstyle is. if u have bad reaction time/ low exp yes dire is better. if u wanna actually be able to kill guardians and defensive players you will need a bit more dmg. if you [plan on going in zerg and fighting on the front line….none will help you. i suggest go SPVP and try out some amulets. see how it goes. youll get the hang out it!

…And you call me spiteful, yet you’re being completely condescending, all while misinterpreting facts. My reaction time is great and so is my experience. I can kill ANYTHING. Let me repeat, ANYTHING, guardians included, using dire. Why? Because I know how to set up bursts, because I land critical interrupts, etc. Stop making the argument that dire thieves just have absolutely zero damage. They have a kitten ton.

And please do not bring a condi thief into spvp. That might be the most laughable statement you’ve made Mr. 4k hours.

i gave the opposite side of your view. was literally the point of my post. ur not too good at keeping up huh.

you cant argu my statements either which is ok. because overly defensive is your playstyle and there is nothing wrong with that. but maybe the OP becomes experienced and wants a different style or skill lvl.

Many run 10 0 30 0 30 for extra dmg and healing etc.

2500 HP every 21s (steal) (2 boons and vigor if ricochet not traited)
+300 toughness
+300 Healing power
+2ndary vitality (armor stats)
AOE blind on steawlth
+330 HP per sec stealthed
+7540 HP per 30 secs (Hide in shadows)
+FULL HEALFULL CONDI REMOVAL every 60 secs (Shadow refuge)
-2 conditions per stealth
+1320 HP -2 conditions (blinding Powder)
-3 Condi (shadowstep)
+6100 HP from exotic armor.

now…sure you can sub out some of these skills but they will always be less productive. this is pretty much a given for all p/d condi builds. some may not take 30 in condi line or 30 in SA but thats the best bet. high dmg high defense

so again i dont see how this build…thats so much healing so much defense….needs….more defense.

but i will say this agian. it comes down to playstyle and experience. if u need extra defense on a nearly fully defensive build…so be it. if you dont….and you want the killing power…go power.

theres both sides right there.

Ulalume.2470:

I’m a bit hessitent to use steal, but i will have to learn using it frequently since it benefits greatly from this build.

Steal is great, you’ll learn, and it’s a good shadowstep to get close to them for a C&D. And some stolen skills are in fact quite nice.

I think i will also miss having “feline grace”. It feels good to have it… especially as a Charr
I kinda had 5 points left after having a good think about it and decided to put it into trickery for lead attacks.

Not a lot of physical damage to really make use of it though. But not much alternatives either :/

Ulalume.2470:

Today i’m ready to try this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlYmiP3cy9E95EB3Dnm0m6zgsjV/gMB-jUDB4iYYNgoOCR0CYk0g00AUHI0HQZqFRjtgZIalPhVJjIqW3ATKAYWDA-w

You may want to use 10/0/30/0/30 instead of 15/0/30/0/25. Lotus Poison is good for a cover condition, but it’s not better than the Trickery GM trait. Hastened Replenishment is great since you are already using Withdraw (and mentioned that you have init problems), and Sleight of Hand gives you even better Steal recharge and a Daze to go with it.

Thrill of the Crime may want to be occasionally swapped out for Long Reach. Don’t sleep on 1500 range for gap-closing and initiation. That’s beyond the range at which most classes can even engage on you, and if you take Hidden Thief in Master Shadow Arts you can even start stealthed for your first Sneak Attack.

Use Skale Venom on your bar if you find that you need a cover condition. It gives Vulnerability/Torment, which is going to give you a bit more damage and diversify you from just bleeding. Only one venom, though. You can theoretically put Devourer here as well if you need to kite someone.

Consider the situation where you do all of the stuff that I just said: you can engage at long range, stick Poison/Vuln/Torment on someone while Dazing them at 1500 range, rip two boons, and open with your bread and butter Sneak Attack move for damage and bleeds. And then 20 seconds or so later, the combo is available again. Meanwhile you have Shadow Strike and CnD to play with.

Think about it.

After having played p/d for a few weeks now, i went back to 10/0/30/0/30 just like you said.
You can adapt nicely on the fly by switching some traits around and i’m loving it. My initiative problems are gone, and WvW is so much fun!

..and i almost have all my dire gear together