Guild Wars 2

I’m curious. I just swapped from s/d to d/p, and I’ve been loving perma stealth. While looking at different builds, I noticed some p/d condition builds take d/p as a secondary set for the constant stealth combo. I was wondering if it’s viable to do the inverse.

Basically, if I’m running a typical d/p bursty stealth build, would using p/d instead of shortbow provide me with better ranged dps? Here are some other reasons I’m looking at replacing shortbow with p/d:

-access to Cloak and Dagger
-Shadow Strike provides another escape
-pistol’s Sneak Attack looks like it would provide nice ranged damage even without conditions

But of course, I would lose Cluster Bomb and all the magical things you can do with a spamable blast finisher. So what do you think?
——————-
EDIT:
I’m planning to try this hybrid build, and wouldn’t mind some gear/trait advice before I invest too much into it: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlUmKNHaS6E+5Ex2Dg+Tey9wpJtpdFwKA-jEyAo+ioRTLCNVZIa5wioxWWLiGrmBTlSEV75LiWtQALWDA-w

umm im not sure the traitlines can be used one in the same. i dont know anyoen who uses d/p and p/d unless youre are constantly changing the SA traits between fights…. i mean p/d doesnt require much initiative so you would use blind ond stealth rather than 2 init per stealth. which is generally the biggest difference. and since p/d needs melee range for stealth its a VERY important defensive key to making the build work. i would highly recommend not doing this.

Hmmm… I didn’t consider the blind on stealth trait. Is it really that necessary for p/d? Obviously d/p requires melee range too, but it doesn’t seem to need that trait.

(disclaimer: I’m still pretty new to thief)

i cant play p/d without AOE blind on stealth. try it. itll change your world

I remember when I was new to thief and me and 2 friends got jumped on by a P/D thief. The blind on stealth trait really kitten ed us off and we felt somewhat permablinded and the thief was pretty much uncatchable as soon as his CnD landed.

And what did they do? They buffed blind even more so now you have to hit something before the blind wears off. So yeah, the trait is excellent for 1vX encounters.

I even picked the trait over condition removal while in stealth, since I had pain response and HiS, the heaviest condition builds (except necromancer) are most effective in melee/close range anyways and you’ll be away from that while performing your sneak attack.

The blind trait helps you while immobilized and in really tight situations #3 saves you.

P/D as a power build is possible, but not something I would recommend. The damage is really low, if you compare it to other weapon sets (D/P for example), and the skills on the weapon set isn’t that useful. I would really like to see that change though! Having a P/D power build could be interesting, but for now it’s a condition set.

It’s a shame to hear that P/D’s direct damage is low. In the web-based build editors it looked alright.

Well, you guys have convinced me. If I want to try P/D, I’ll swap to conditions. I guess with torment and the buff to blind, it’s only gotten stronger since I last played it. What secondary weapon set should I use? D/D?

Scorpio Spork.9568:

It’s a shame to hear that P/D’s direct damage is low. In the web-based build editors it looked alright.

Well, you guys have convinced me. If I want to try P/D, I’ll swap to conditions. I guess with torment and the buff to blind, it’s only gotten stronger since I last played it. What secondary weapon set should I use? D/D?

P/D is not bad power build ! Yout CaD make good DMG -4k crit,autoattack +-850 and Sneak Attack +-2.6k, 60DMG per stack of bleed and skill “3” make really good dmg to +-.1.6k + jump back.

Evilek.5690:

P/D is not bad power build ! Yout CaD make good DMG -4k crit,autoattack +-850 and Sneak Attack +-2.6k, 60DMG per stack of bleed and skill “3” make really good dmg to +-.1.6k + jump back.

Huh, then I might try a hybrid build (or at least play with one in an editor). Maybe with Celestial armor or trinkets, it could work.

You could also use D/P and S/D, id you are so hyped up for having that CnD.
Actually was theorycrafting about getting sigil of intelligence(skipping 100% crit on stealth) and setting up crit-backstabs with CnD -> weaponswap -> backstab.
It seems a bit complicated, but it frees up points for traits, which harmonize with non-backstab-skills.
Never really tried it out tho.

I’ve tried it in WvW. It’s disappointing at best. The damage just isn’t really there. It can be made to work, but it shines best with conditions.

I was able to get numbers a little higher than Evilek, and it got better when your opponent was under 50%, but it’s just not all that easy building an effective hybrid build as a thief.

I found it a lot of fun, just not as effective as condition-based P/D.

Haha, “disappointing at best” wasn’t what I was hoping to hear! I threw this together and was hoping to test it out later (if I could afford Divinity Runes, I’d use those): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlUmKNHaS6E+5Ex2Dg+Tey9wpJtpdFwKA-jEyAo+ioRTLCNVZIa5wioxWWLiGrmBTlSEV75LiWtQALWDA-w

Unfortunately, it only has 1.1k condition damage and 52% crit damage, which just feels too low on both accounts. But then again, that’s about half as much condition damage as I’d want in a condition build, and half as much crit damage as I’d want in a direct damage build.

I don’t know… I may still try it out. I expect it’ll be mediocre, but maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised. Any advice on gear or traits before I invest too much into it?

LOl my engi fully geared for condition damage has 1.5k condition damage, no stacks. How do you ever expect to get to 2.2k?

vinceftw.5086:

LOl my engi fully geared for condition damage has 1.5k condition damage, no stacks. How do you ever expect to get to 2.2k?

I haven’t, actually. But I could have sworn I’ve seen some Mesmers hit 1.8-2k (maybe they were taking into account might stacking with the might on shatter trait?). The only condition build I’m running on any of my characters is a hybrid trapper build on my Ranger. She’s sitting at 1.3k condition damage, so I guess 1.1k isn’t as low as I thought.

My P/D condition build is right around 1.8K condition damage. With Hidden Assassin, it can reach1950 to 2000. You can get around 2100 without too much trouble, but you give up too much survivability imo, and I could never get enough condition duration to go with it, and have the survivability I want in builds.

Imo, what makes condition builds decent, is that most people don’t always pay attention to stacks of bleeds like they do to large numbers. (and more people than you’d think don’t run reliable condition removal)

I could never get a decent P/D power build, and still have the minimum 1.1k-1.3K condition damage to go with it. (and maintain at least 50% condition duration)

Edit: You might get some decent results with the new celestial armor and weapon recipes and run celestial jewelry. The calcs haven’t updated to reflect the new stuff yet.

Something I threw together in a few minutes using celestial gear:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmaPXey5E9JFyWhKk7BT5UJl/hvq/wVB-jkCBoeCiUAAEEgUHQJfFRjtEsIasqaER1qbYmbDRzmL1SBAxYA-w

Add 250 to power for the sigil of bloodlust, there’s a toggle for it, but it doesn’t save in the link.

3K power Edit: <——- this should be read as attack not power.
68% crit damage, with 31% crit chance
732 condition damage, with 75% bleed duration
17.5K health, with 2751 armor and 736 healing power

Hidden assassin adds 140 might on average (4 stacks). That’s another 140 condition damage and 140 power on top of all that.

It might work decently, I don’t have the laurels or gear to try it though.

everyone has their own flavor. laela blackbird is a great p/d user and likes d/p as a backup. i prefer to stay with one kind of build and keep it p/d p/d so ic an flop in battle to really take advantage of the sigils on my weapons. with an inverse set you cant do that. but ont he same thing u cant perma invis yourself in a tower and wait for everyone to leave. it depends on what you like to do.

my p/d is a “power” build …. i mean my sneak attacks hit like 1400…. can go much higher but thats the normaal….a low is 1100….high is like 1800. play what you enjoy and have a goal in mind. some builds are better 1 v 1 some are better ZvZ….just have a goal in mind of build for everything but master nothing. :P all up to u bro

Fade.7658:

Something I threw together in a few minutes using celestial gear:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmaPXey5E9JFyWhKk7BT5UJl/hvq/wVB-jkCBoeCiUAAEEgUHQJfFRjtEsIasqaER1qbYmbDRzmL1SBAxYA-w

Add 250 to power for the sigil of bloodlust, there’s a toggle for it, but it doesn’t save in the link.

3K power
68% crit damage, with 31% crit chance
732 condition damage, with 75% bleed duration
17.5K health, with 2751 armor and 736 healing power

Hidden assassin adds 140 might on average (4 stacks). That’s another 140 condition damage and 140 power on top of all that.

It might work decently, I don’t have the laurels or gear to try it though.

That’s a lot of power! Personally, I think I prefer different runes and a higher crit chance, but that’s an interesting way to hybridize. Unfortunately, I have five different 80’s competing for laurels, which is why I’m using exotics for gear calculations.

But your post got me looking at what I put together again, trying to emphasize more condition damage. Now, with 25 sigil stacks and food I hit nearly 1.5k condition damage (1k without). Condition duration hits 50% with food. Crit chance sits at a comfortable 50%, and crit damage is increased by 54%.

As far as traits go, I get +10% damage with pistols, and +20% damage when my target falls below 50% health. I’m worried I don’t have the power to make as much use out of those traits, but that trait line also gives a lot of critical damage and precision. In general, I feel like that’s going to get me the most damage per trait point than anything else. But I suppose if I want more power, I can swap the Tuning Crystals out for Sharpening Stones.

At this point, I’m over thinking it. I just need to test the build and see what I think.

Travlane.5948:

everyone has their own flavor. laela blackbird is a great p/d user and likes d/p as a backup. i prefer to stay with one kind of build and keep it p/d p/d so ic an flop in battle to really take advantage of the sigils on my weapons. with an inverse set you cant do that. but ont he same thing u cant perma invis yourself in a tower and wait for everyone to leave. it depends on what you like to do.

my p/d is a “power” build …. i mean my sneak attacks hit like 1400…. can go much higher but thats the normaal….a low is 1100….high is like 1800. play what you enjoy and have a goal in mind. some builds are better 1 v 1 some are better ZvZ….just have a goal in mind of build for everything but master nothing. :P all up to u bro

Yeah, I think that’s where I saw the P/D + D/P combo. I remember being impressed by the videos, but that could just have been the quality of the player. Ultimately, you’re right. We should play with what we enjoy. I’m just having trouble figuring out what that is with Thief.

Scorpio Spork.9568:

Fade.7658:

Something I threw together in a few minutes using celestial gear:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmaPXey5E9JFyWhKk7BT5UJl/hvq/wVB-jkCBoeCiUAAEEgUHQJfFRjtEsIasqaER1qbYmbDRzmL1SBAxYA-w

Add 250 to power for the sigil of bloodlust, there’s a toggle for it, but it doesn’t save in the link.

3K power
68% crit damage, with 31% crit chance
732 condition damage, with 75% bleed duration
17.5K health, with 2751 armor and 736 healing power

Hidden assassin adds 140 might on average (4 stacks). That’s another 140 condition damage and 140 power on top of all that.

It might work decently, I don’t have the laurels or gear to try it though.

That’s a lot of power! Personally, I think I prefer different runes and a higher crit chance, but that’s an interesting way to hybridize. Unfortunately, I have five different 80’s competing for laurels, which is why I’m using exotics for gear calculations.

But your post got me looking at what I put together again, trying to emphasize more condition damage. Now, with 25 sigil stacks and food I hit nearly 1.5k condition damage (1k without). Condition duration hits 50% with food. Crit chance sits at a comfortable 50%, and crit damage is increased by 54%.

As far as traits go, I get +10% damage with pistols, and +20% damage when my target falls below 50% health. I’m worried I don’t have the power to make as much use out of those traits, but that trait line also gives a lot of critical damage and precision. In general, I feel like that’s going to get me the most damage per trait point than anything else. But I suppose if I want more power, I can swap the Tuning Crystals out for Sharpening Stones.

At this point, I’m over thinking it. I just need to test the build and see what I think.

It’s been my impression that power usually trumps out other power-based stats up to a point. I can’t find the calculations, but there’s a breaking point where each stat becomes more valuable.

With my testing, I had right around 40% crit chance and it seemed to be enough. The build I threw together could be changed some, with an accuracy sigil to add 5% crit chance, for example. You could also choose the Side Strike trait for 7% more crit chance, as you’ll do most of your attacks from an angle anyways. That ups crit chance to 43/44%.

There’s enough of a choice in gear, that you should be able to find a nice medium. I’ve always tried for at least 3K power and 40% crit chance in any power build (I tend to favor a lot of defense with any build I use, so I don’t go glass cannon at all) but it’s not easy. You have to give up something sadly.

Edit: I realized that the 3K power should read as 3K Attack, not power. My mistake.