Guild Wars 2

please no useless comments, lets try to keep it constructive.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY8YlUmKP3bS4E/5ExWBfy9IpOFpePI7YNLA-TwAg1CoIaS1krJTTymsNNEZ5xugZBA

the gist of it: i like playing thief condi. i really like the playstyle of stealth P/D. it’s also the PvP build i’m the most used to, but i’m struggling to find a role that goes beyond “help a teammate turn a 1v1 around”, as there’s only so much that blindness and bleeding alone can do.

the build used to have withdraw as the heal, and the signet used to be blinding powder. i changed that today because frankly, those condi necros are eating me alive. with the addition of the signet, i decided to transfer my 10 points in deadly arts to critical strikes (might change the dagger’s sigil to boost the crit chance even more).

the sword/dagger is there mostly just to deal with boon spammers, or to nab those 10+ stacks of might some engies and warriors often have. i do enjoy playing S/D, but not enough to make a playstyle centered around it (i tried).

so, any suggestions? what tweaks should be made to the build to be more useful to the team? what role should i be focusing on? is there hope for P/D with a trait overhaul (venom build maybe? haven’t played that since beta)

((
Suggestion -> https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/MAJ-03-07-13-build-Insaisissable-vs-Duality/first#post158741
))

P/D doesn’t have a defined role it fits in for pvp. If you want change from condi P/D to physical, and you’ll be able to do more with your S/D swap.

I think your build suffers from too much of trying to be hybrid. I get that you want S/D for stealing boons, etc.

However, you cannot apply condition damage pressure in that weapon set, if that is what you are going for.

With regards to direct damage, your attack power is too low (even lower than a Carrion setup) at the cost of too much Precision.

Condition Damage + Precision (with decent direct damage) is a hard build to get working together.

thanks for the suggestion guys.

like i said, the S/D is mostly situational. i swap to it, rip boons (which is usually enough to drive that guard to the ground) and swap back. i’m never holding one for longer than i need to.

regarding direct damage, it was a recent change, trying to make the best out of the cleansing signet, but i might swap back to power then. sneak attack doesn’t scale well with power though, from my experience.

any suggestions regarding runes and sigils? i was thinking of changing them for something that allowed me to apply burn as well, to at least improve the short-term condition damage.

also, for the person that suggested a power P/D, do you have any rough template i could take a look at?

Before this patch most p/d builds were wild bill’s or venom share, both which are extremely potent in their own way. Both these have countless videos/guides and I encourage you to give them both a try (every thief should).

You may be onto something with the new sleight of hand, however, since it +mug can give you extra healing that bill’s build only got from shadow’s rejuvination, plus bonus initiative, and a +condi dmg trait line (not to mention sleight is amazing in its own right).

I would probably run carrion amulet, mug, and armor runes for bleed duration (or lyssa for survival). Hidden thief is mostly redundant, by the time revealed wears off and you can cloak again, you can just CnD or steal/CnD anyway.

I’m not sure of the usefulness of signets of power, the condi dmg gain seems a bit marginal even if timed well, so I would likely use those points in deadly arts for poison on steal plus mug. The 10 points from dropping hidden thief could be used for tons of neat stuff. Virtually every trait in shadow arts is worthwhile, both grandmasters are strong, extra initiative is always good, deceptions are some of the best utilities, or you can drop it in acrobatics.

ens.9854:

Before this patch most p/d builds were wild bill’s or venom share, both which are extremely potent in their own way. Both these have countless videos/guides and I encourage you to give them both a try (every thief should).

You may be onto something with the new sleight of hand, however, since it +mug can give you extra healing that bill’s build only got from shadow’s rejuvination, plus bonus initiative, and a +condi dmg trait line (not to mention sleight is amazing in its own right).

I would probably run carrion amulet, mug, and armor runes for bleed duration (or lyssa for survival). Hidden thief is mostly redundant, by the time revealed wears off and you can cloak again, you can just CnD or steal/CnD anyway.

I’m not sure of the usefulness of signets of power, the condi dmg gain seems a bit marginal even if timed well, so I would likely use those points in deadly arts for poison on steal plus mug. The 10 points from dropping hidden thief could be used for tons of neat stuff. Virtually every trait in shadow arts is worthwhile, both grandmasters are strong, extra initiative is always good, deceptions are some of the best utilities, or you can drop it in acrobatics.

those 10 points in critial used to be in deadly, seems like i should’ve kept it that way :P how much does mug heal for on average anyway? can’t say i’ve paid attention to the amount.

i find hidden thief especially useful as an opener, as i can shadowstep, interrupt and stealth myself, with just enough time to charge basilisk, lay caltrops, and fire the sneak attack after the victim is done rolling around like a panicked idiot. but maybe instead i should get the habit of CnD stealing.

i just worry that with all of those changes (i already dropped blinding powder for the cleanse signet), i’ll run short on on-demand stealths (i could pop steal just for the stealth when no one was around, if i needed a cleanse), which are a more reliable cleanse when i’m by myself than the signet.

Mug heals for 2000, which is substantial for a thief that’s hidden or dodging half the fight. Hidden thief is some nice quality of life, especially now that steal is on a 20sec cooldown (it definitely wasn’t worth it before), but it’s hard to argue that it’s better than 330hp/sec while stealthed for fighting conditions, and it is a second shorter than CnD. P/d is not a build that is afraid of being close quarters (again I reference Wild Bill if you want to see the playstyle), so it’s usually not a problem landing CnD on players, pets, illusions, etc, for an instant cleanse/hp.

For hotjoin/wvw, it may be a bit janky, but you can consider running d/p offset for the infinite stealth abuse. For tournament play, you should probably be running either a venom share build or using utilities like shadow refuge/blinding powder for stomp denial anyhow.

so i tried some changes.

first, i moved those 10 points to the power line, as suggested, and i changed my stats to carrion with zerker jewel. massive improvement offensively, so i’m happy with that.

i tried dropping 5 points and moving them to the power line and just CnD my stealths, but i found myself lacking any escape stealth skills, which got me in way too much trouble, so i reverted the change. the 20s cooldown allows me to pop it often without much consequence.

right now i’m debating whether or not a sigil of bloodlust is worth taking, or if i should use something else. i’d also rather have something else on the dagger slot, sigil of force is just my go to “i have nothing better to put here” sigil, so any suggestions are welcome.

as for the stealth heal, i found it so minimal (especially since i’m not building stealth to last here) that i dropped it when they changed the blind mechanics. denying the other team an attack felt better than healing 300-600 health every now and then.

oh and i’m aiming it for tPvP. since i have easy blinds thanks to the trait, stomp denial has yet to be a problem. i’d love to bring shadow refuge though, but that would mean getting rid either of my cleanse, my stunbreak, or my damage.

wish we had templates already, so i could save this and experiment with venom share again.

BrunoBRS.5178:

…
also, for the person that suggested a power P/D, do you have any rough template i could take a look at?

((
…Yes in this post→ https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/MAJ-03-07-13-build-Insaisissable-vs-Duality/first#post158741

See part build : JcJ « Insaisissable » i use this on PvP and tournament.
Full conditions ! sorry for my poor english.
))

an update on the build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY8YlUmKN3ey7E/5EB3jk60m69gsj1saFoJA-TwAgyCnIaS1krJTTymsNNKY5xGiJEA

changes:

-replaced shadow trap with roll for initiative, because the former was proving too unreliable as a stunbreak, which was getting me killed far too often. RFI, on the other hand, breaks any CC imaginable, while evading and throwing me away from danger, thus being more reliable.

-replaced signet of agility for shadow refuge. the signet was hardly being worth the cleansing, and shadow refuge has far more uses. plus, the 12 second stealth grants me about 8 stacks of might by the time i get out of it, improving my damage.

-replaced hidden thief with shadow’s rejuvenation. now that i have shadow refuge as an escape stealth, i don’t need steal for stealth on demand. plus, the long stealths make SR worth the investment. survivability has improved.

-moved 10 points from critical strikes to deadly arts, using mug. 2k heal helps, more raw damage helps, more condi duration helps.

-using a carrion amulet with zerker jewel for stats. gives a nice HP pool, high condi damage, and some considerable power.

- using sigil of bloodlust on dagger, sigil of force on pistol. still have no idea what to add on pistol. if anyone got any sigil suggestions.

Deception based:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlUmiO3ey5E95EB3ji60m6pgsjtTBX1KA-TwAgyCuIgR5jzHDMyZszMCYFw+j5HA

Cempa.5619:

Deception based:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlUmiO3ey5E95EB3ji60m6pgsjtTBX1KA-TwAgyCuIgR5jzHDMyZszMCYFw+j5HA

((
Goog build, but poor in damages and conditions…
))

Mannjdyr.9041:

Cempa.5619:

Deception based:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlUmiO3ey5E95EB3ji60m6pgsjtTBX1KA-TwAgyCuIgR5jzHDMyZszMCYFw+j5HA

((
Goog build, but poor in damages and conditions…
))

+1179 Condi
+55% Bleed duration
+1585 Power on a condi build

You want WvW stats in sPvP?

Cempa.5619:

Mannjdyr.9041:

Cempa.5619:

Deception based:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlUmiO3ey5E95EB3ji60m6pgsjtTBX1KA-TwAgyCuIgR5jzHDMyZszMCYFw+j5HA

((
Goog build, but poor in damages and conditions…
))

+1179 Condi
+55% Bleed duration
+1585 Power on a condi build

You want WvW stats in sPvP?

((
Sorry, my english is poor…

Condition build only on bleed :/ with 20 in trichery.

-> JcJ “Duality” : https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/MAJ-08-07-13-Voleur-alt-Duality/158741 = Bleed+Poison+Tourment+… and Embush.

40%+ conditions durations + 10% bleed duration (+50%). 1250 when 25 charges corruption.
))

i guess i might as well ask:

with pistol builds relying so much on a single, easily cleansed condition (bleed always goes first), is it really worth it to stack so much duration in exchange for damage per tick?

Small rant post regarding p/d condi specs,

Unlike other classes when running condi’s they have acces to more then 2 condi’s to deal damage (poison,bleed) and on top they have a crapload more cc and control skills,

Mesmer,Warrior,Necro,Engi are all far superior in this,, even rangers with fear,knockdown on pet have a little more cc although not much and with delay aswell.

Thieves just feel so limited on condi builds compared to other classes that it just get’s boring rly fast, and you just hope they are bad enough to let you bleed em down ^^

the only proper cc form in a p/d setup i can find is going 30 in trickery for the daze on steal which is also suboptimal and messes up the build to some extent while still viable, but some extra dps condi or 1 extra form of cc would be quite welcome on condi thieves, they should have just given body shot a 3 sec burn or so instead, anyway rant off ;p

LionZero.3479:

Small rant post regarding p/d condi specs,

Unlike other classes when running condi’s they have acces to more then 2 condi’s to deal damage (poison,bleed) and on top they have a crapload more cc and control skills,

Mesmer,Warrior,Necro,Engi are all far superior in this,, even rangers with fear,knockdown on pet have a little more cc although not much and with delay aswell.

Thieves just feel so limited on condi builds compared to other classes that it just get’s boring rly fast, and you just hope they are bad enough to let you bleed em down ^^

the only proper cc form in a p/d setup i can find is going 30 in trickery for the daze on steal which is also suboptimal and messes up the build to some extent while still viable, but some extra dps condi or 1 extra form of cc would be quite welcome on condi thieves, they should have just given body shot a 3 sec burn or so instead, anyway rant off ;p

i don’t know, i find that the new sleight of hand makes 30 trickery very viable (especially since you’re getting 300 condi damage from the trickery stats). you can also use basilisk venom for more cc, and if what you want are more conditions, we have two venoms that deal condition damage.

it could be better, of course, but i don’t think P/D is the crappy build some people make it sound like. it’s just a more defensive, “i don’t get the kills but i apply the pressure” kind of roamer.

Here’s the sum: drop condition build on thief in spvp. Condition works miracles in well structured dungeons or in soloing Orr. Heck condi thief is amazing for flipping in wvw as well as short bowing stuff in zerg v zerg.

But in 1v1 fights condi thief is only good against… never mind.

I’m not bashing condition here, it is totally viable my thing here is that you need to ask yourself what is the point when you say you are using a condi build in pvp on a thief.

Isn’t the point to get the job done and move on? If so then why go condition for pvp? I know condition feels fun for some people, and it feels very fun but it just wont get the job done quite like the dps options in pvp. Odd’s are you will be cleansed, healed out or the target will just run away.

In spvp non 1v1 situations what this means is that you will always spend way too much time fighting and not enough time killing. So you are holding back your team in the end and so I ask why go condition thief?

Ideally my condi thief would do about 37k with 25 stacks of bleed. But in pvp you will not land 25 stacks on anyone and expect that kind of return. It will be cleansed. Heck my hat’s doff to any thief that can land 25 stacks on even a crummy Mesmer.

Just go dps, that way you can kill your target and move on. I know it’s boring but at the moment there is no use for condition damage in pvp. I don’t use necro often enough to comment on them though, so maybe necro can go condi.

Mesmer can go condition also but what’s the point? A dps mesmer can insta gib anyone in pvp. It’s like going bleed warrior…. why!?