Guild Wars 2

Mainly for wvwvw … I decided to turn my d/d thief into a p/d thief but no real idea on the build?

Carion armour? plex runes?

Any experienced thieves help please :-)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/video-My-thief-in-some-wvw-action/first#post3216243

check this and other thread

perplexity wont do u any good but only 3 stack of confusions but some ppl still like them

P/D is fun to play around with u’ll prob like it especially after Dec 10th patch

messiah.1908:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/video-My-thief-in-some-wvw-action/first#post3216243

check this and other thread

perplexity wont do u any good but only 3 stack of confusions but some ppl still like them

It actaully very good

so funny video vince as it seems the thief fighting against dummy target which never hit back and just stand
perplexity does only 3 stacks for 5 seconds so 500-600 dmg maybe as you dont have interupt ability you wont have the #6 to do significant dmg as torment rune does as duration will be 45% longer which can take with 40% food to almost 10 seconds dmg which is far higher

and i heard finally anet will nerf the #6 ability on the rune…?

Your right 500-600 per action and that can easily give an extra 2k-6kdmg and its also an extra condi to cleanse. A pd thief should not be running 6 runes as you have no way to interupt(unless scrop wire) only need 4 for the 3stacks of confusion on hit. Duration after a certain point is not that great as most people are running a fair amount of condi cleanse and condi are rarely on ppl for the full duration.

Torment runes its a nice idea but the appilcation of the aoe torment of the 6th rune is awkward. Its tied with your heal and you have to get dangerously close the the enemy for the torment to land. That WvW for you dummy targets everywhere

Traveler’s runes are better than Perplexity runes imo. An extra utility slot makes a difference. Even Runes of Speed are pretty decent if you prefer more defense.

Fade.7658:

Traveler’s runes are better than Perplexity runes imo. An extra utility slot makes a difference. Even Runes of Speed are pretty decent if you prefer more defense.

Not for a condi build.

http://intothemists.com/guides/1875-mordecais_pd_wvw_roamer

This is what I’ve been running for the past 3-4 months. By no means is it some groundbreaking build and maybe could be improved somewhere, but it works really well for me. Just know that not everything you see listed as far as traits, utilities, etc. is static. I make brief explanations on the build for those who are unfamiliar with the set, but you will more than likely need to swap skills/traits depending on the situation.

vincecontix.1264:

Fade.7658:

Traveler’s runes are better than Perplexity runes imo. An extra utility slot makes a difference. Even Runes of Speed are pretty decent if you prefer more defense.

Not for a condi build.

I guess it depends on playstyle. Having that extra utility slot opened up some new strats for me. I also like having a stun break and not having to give up 25% movement to get it.

Are 4 perplexity runes worth giving up the bleed duration runes?

For sPvP (hot join) I run:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYYlUmCN3ay5E95EB3jk60mqp4m2sTBWlPA;TsAgyCuomxAjAGrPuZk+s+YEwcBA
Though Signet of Shadows I replace with Ambush.
I’m not too sure how well it can translate into WvW.
The basic though, you want to enter stealth whenever possible via CnD to use Sneak Attack.
Ambush + Thieve’s guild helps in creating a bit of chaos in 1v1-3 fights (learn to place ambush as an engagement/offensive trap or during the fight).
Shadow Strike (and now because of the torment) is really good for getting out of close range+helps kitting via torment damage.
Dev venom for when they’re running away or trying not to engage you…
Spider venom is kind of a decoy condition, if the opponent can only remove 1 condition, you want to apply poison and/or torment to ensure that the bleeds you apply thereafter don’t get cleansed (assuming they can only remove 1 condition…)
Ugh, the 2nd set, I changed from D/D to SB still with energy sigil, helps gtfo when the going gets tough. (shadow strike, 1-2 x dodge roll , switch to SB (get quit a bit of endurance back), infiltrator’s arrow, 1-2 x dodge roll = should be way the kitten away from the fight)

This is the build I run, and feel comfortable using, it may not be/isn’t the best build. And again I don’t know how well it will translate into WvW.

Naii.9810:

Are 4 perplexity runes worth giving up the bleed duration runes?

I use a condition thief in Wvw using P/d. I actually find that the duration from food of 40 percent is enough and indeed at times do not even use that in order to get higher ticks . The perplexity runes might seem not worth using with that weapon set but believe you me they are. The number of TYPES of conditions one can get an an enemy is as important as duration. The number 4 trait along with the daze on trickery can lay down 3 or 4 stacks of confusion.

I used a build where I focused on higher durations rather then strength of the stack or condition types and formed the opinion it was less effective. This just because of the cleansing that goes on. Get 12 bleeds on. 4 or 5 torments and 3 or 4 confusions and even if one of the stacks cleansed good damage is still being done. If one manages the fortuitous “steal gunk” you can get even more confusion stacks on.

What I do however is use d/d as the alternate weapon set and switch between the two. D/d is better at bleeds when using DB.

People that say you cannot interrupt and use the #6 on perplexity runes are misinformed. You can use scorpion wire or sleight of hand, it just takes timing it correctly and knowing animations for other classes. This build is all about the amount of conditions you can stack without being cleansed right away or being able to reapply in a short amount of time.

I would try x/x/30/x/30 with plex runes if bored and put 5 minimum into deadly arts for the poison on steal as there is no way to beat a regen warrior if you have no poison to diminish their heal.

I have been playing around with different gear as I found out that sigil of torment and some on crit sigils are on separate timers meaning that you can stack another 2 conditions every 10 seconds if you crit. So I am testing out dire/rabid gear and like the results so far of being able to stack more conditions randomly. With this setup i still sit around 1550 condition dmg and 2900 toughness, 16.5k health.

The video above is interesting but shows people that are absolutely clueless on how to fight a thief and poor play in general. I would highly suggest if you’re interested in p/d look up laela blackbird on youtube and watch some of those videos as he/she is the best at this build that i’ve seen.

vincecontix.1264:

Your right 500-600 per action and that can easily give an extra 2k-6kdmg and its also an extra condi to cleanse. A pd thief should not be running 6 runes as you have no way to interupt(unless scrop wire) only need 4 for the 3stacks of confusion on hit. Duration after a certain point is not that great as most people are running a fair amount of condi cleanse and condi are rarely on ppl for the full duration.

Torment runes its a nice idea but the appilcation of the aoe torment of the 6th rune is awkward. Its tied with your heal and you have to get dangerously close the the enemy for the torment to land. That WvW for you dummy targets everywhere

I tired both torment and perplexity runes and found perplexity more effective overall with p/d just because it another type. I use a full set and daze on steal and it works fine.

Torment would be better if withdraw worked with that AOE torment stack before the roll rather then after.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thiefsmer-Revamped/first#post3208933

after few minutes you get used to withdraw movement and evade forward easily and cnd and dodge to apply easy +2 stacks of torment, cripple and bleed from caltrops and if i steal i put poison and weakness → 5 conditions

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

If you find yourself to be a decent player P/D with full berserker is a pretty strong set and fun to play. Also means you don’t have to find new gear. I hit people for about 6-7k on Shadow Strike 2.

Pew pew (Use a super pistol for max fun).

Again though, it’s pretty unforgiving depending on the traits you run.

See…I run a 0/0/30/20/20 with withdraw as a heal and full centaur runes on full rabid set. Run sigil of tormenting and corruption, already have near perma vigor.

Very hard for me to die. Perma swiftness is essential. SB off weapon for movement purposes only. On tablet, will try to get a build from one of the sites in a few.

These P/D condi attrition builds will probably become the new most hated Thief build post Dec 10 (a spot that used to belong to D/P permastealth).

They’re easier to play and even more frustrating to play against because they slowly outlast you from range rather than relying on melee bursts. And when played well they’re just as difficult to kill.

Omnitek.3876:

See…I run a 0/0/30/20/20 with withdraw as a heal and full centaur runes on full rabid set. Run sigil of tormenting and corruption, already have near perma vigor.

Very hard for me to die. Perma swiftness is essential. SB off weapon for movement purposes only. On tablet, will try to get a build from one of the sites in a few.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4Vwkc0U5R-kd0;9;6TJJ;413A29-26;9;6kis696Q

Yes, the only stealth is CnD. I have been playing with poison on swap and running a p/d p/d and enjoy it. Centuar runes, welcome to evasion town. Played correctly, no one will catch you, ever.

Sigil of tormenting (if you use rabid). I sit at 16khp. I could easily go down to 12k and feel perfectly safe. Run circles around d/p (only can kill the bad ones,which is 80% of them, good ones will still walk away). Bad news, you can’t kill many healing Sig warriors… Everyone else is free game.

Not easier to play than d/p lol.

capmasterflash.5690:

Not easier to play than d/p lol.

It’s a different playstyle. Having played both (I don’t play shadow arts) I would say each is difficult in its own way. Perma stealth is cheese. Extremely forgiving, easy to play, very rotation based. If you play glass cannon on a D/P set it has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game, if not the highest. P/D isn’t easy either, but because of different reasons, you can do more on a D/P set so playing it to its potential is the part that takes work. However playing P/D with the cast time and hit box of Shadow Strike can be extremely annoying against good players. That and Cloak and Dagger has one of the most obnoxious cast animations in the game – people see it a mile away.

If I had to choose one over the other in terms of difficulty I’d say playing D/P to its potential is harder than playing P/D to its potential. Again though, I don’t play Shadow Arts, that’s for little girls who need handicaps <3

Edit for grammar, it’s too early for me

P/D is by far the easiest to play and most forgiving thief setup. It’s like playing a PU condition mesmer; pure troll.

There are a few diff builds that all work with p/d. I find it more engaging than d/p. CnD isnt too bad, shadow strike has a strange hit box, but I never, ever use it on my build unless I get immobilized and 100b by a cheese warrior.

In my roaming group, I am the tank. Everyone attacks the thief first. It is a 100% different play style and I find it quite fun. Not everyone will though.

Bacon.4918:

P/D is by far the easiest to play and most forgiving thief setup. It’s like playing a PU condition mesmer; pure troll.

Is that why everyone plays d/p perma stealth? Because it is harder and less forgiving?

By that logic, warriors are the hardest class to play because I see a million of them! /rolleyes

Narcarsis.5739:

capmasterflash.5690:

Not easier to play than d/p lol.

It’s a different playstyle. Having played both (I don’t play shadow arts) I would say each is difficult in its own way. Perma stealth is cheese. Extremely forgiving, easy to play, very rotation based. If you play glass cannon on a D/P set it has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game, if not the highest. P/D isn’t easy either, but because of different reasons, you can do more on a D/P set so playing it to its potential is the part that takes work. However playing P/D with the cast time and hit box of Shadow Strike can be extremely annoying against good players. That and Cloak and Dagger has one of the most obnoxious cast animations in the game – people see it a mile away.

If I had to choose one over the other in terms of difficulty I’d say playing D/P to its potential is harder than playing P/D to its potential. Again though, I don’t play Shadow Arts, that’s for little girls who need handicaps <3

Edit for grammar, it’s too early for me

Agreed on skill ceiling of full burst D/P builds.

In terms of skill floor, however, I guess in the end it depends on what you’re fighting.

Playing P/D attrition builds (I’m talking about the ones that makes liberal use of SA to reset HP, not whatever yolo baller zerker P/D builds you might have come up with =P) is at least as easy as D/P permastealth against any melee build (that isn’t hammer+mace/shield warrior with its insane AoE CC + condi removal + sustain), because you can simply kite them around until you want to land a C&D, and time their melee chains to guarantee landing one.

Against primarily ranged builds that try to kite you around however, it definitely becomes exponentially harder than D/P permastealth because you won’t be able to reliably land your C&D’s.

Kaon.7192:

Agreed on skill ceiling of full burst D/P builds.

In terms of skill floor, however, I guess in the end it depends on what you’re fighting. Playing P/D attrition is at least as easy as D/P permastealth against any melee build that isn’t hammer+mace/shield warrior with its insane AoE CC + condi removal + sustain. Against primarily ranged builds that try to kite you around however, it definitely becomes exponentially harder than D/P permastealth because you won’t be able to reliably land your C&D’s.

Skill floor isn’t something I really concern myself with – not something I can be objective about. Same goes with perma stealth as I don’t play it. I was more referring to full glass on both sets. I play burst P/D if I play it, using the same build I made for D/P with one trait change. The build has 3 gap closers if you include Shadowstep. The difficulty of P/D comes up when you face D/P. Blinds hard counter you. That being said if played properly on both builds you can 1v1 anything as a glass cannon. The skill ceiling is incredibly high on both sets, I just find it to be higher on D/P as there’s more you can do in terms of “making plays”. P/D is just a pain to consistently land Shadow Strike and Cloak and Dagger. Once you manage to land those every time without fail then the amount of things you can do on the set is pretty minimal. Landing those is a pain in the butt however, since the hit box and animations on both of them make it a headache (Shadow Strike being too fast for it’s small hit box and Cloak and Dagger being too obvious). D/P is more of a skill based set in terms of blinds, dazes, combo fields, etc.

I run a 30/10/30/0/0 full rabid set and lyssa runes. I have p/d (giver) in both sets with sigil of doom, sigil of ice and sigil of corruption. With rare veggie pizza i have +100 condition duration.

Omnitek.3876:

Is that why everyone plays d/p perma stealth? Because it is harder and less forgiving?

By that logic, warriors are the hardest class to play because I see a million of them! /rolleyes

Your statement makes very little sense. I assume you are suggesting because you have seen (anecdotal evidence) more people playing D/P it is easier to play? Just so you know this in a fallacy and I would suggest you make sure your own statements are sound before you questioning the logic of others. /rolleyes

Anyway, people play d/p because a 10k backstab will always be more rewarding than slowly trolling your opponent to death from range. D/P also annihilates inexperienced players which can be very satisfying. The main advantage P/D has in my view is the ability to pressure from range and remain outside of random AoE/cleave damage. Sneak attack has a range of 900 in comparison to backstab which has a range of 130. Also, condition duration in wvw is out of control; anyone can get +50% duration and 170 condition damage from food + crystal buffs alone. Show me an equivalent food for burst power builds.

So, I’m like, wtf is he talking about? 900 range? Who does that? Then I looked up some videos….

I’m sorry, I play p/d like a d/d. Melee range, in your face, caltrops dodge. If I’m not in melee, I’m chasing someone to get into it. I am in melee as much as possible to put massive pressure.

Sorry for the confusion and I meant no ill will against Bacon or d/p theif.

I just switched to p/d condi build after playing d/p and d/d since I got the game in December. P/d has been required more skill to pick up than d/p. I’m not denying that d/p might have a higher skill cap with timing your 4 skill and what not, but playing p/d with only cds as stealth has been more of a challenge than 5+2+1 spamming. I don’t find the majority of d/p users to be at all skillful. Your typical d/p has refuge/blinding powder/shadow step while your typical p/d runs 2 venoms and a signet. You have to be way more careful than running d/p and I think that translates to skill.

Also, do you really thinking 30 shadow arts to get rejuvenation is cheap? Freaking Yishis uses that.

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Kaon.7192:

These P/D condi attrition builds will probably become the new most hated Thief build post Dec 10 (a spot that used to belong to D/P permastealth).

They’re easier to play and even more frustrating to play against because they slowly outlast you from range rather than relying on melee bursts. And when played well they’re just as difficult to kill.

easier to play yes. harder to master i think. without having the right version and tactics you wont do enough dmg for many warriors/guards. and using the 2 stuns i run in my build are VERY important as they are the true killers.

Carob.6789:

I run a 30/10/30/0/0 full rabid set and lyssa runes. I have p/d (giver) in both sets with sigil of doom, sigil of ice and sigil of corruption. With rare veggie pizza i have +100 condition duration.

i like 100% condition duration. but i went more for condition dmg.

Why? well think about this. if you ahve 100% condition time. so lets say each bleed is 10 secs and now is 20 secs with your gear. the opponent has -90% condition time. so you figure eh its only 11 secs now right?….. nope. its 2 secs of condition time. the – % is always twice as strong as the + % due to the – being applied AFTER. i think the -% should be applied first as it almost entirely negates the +% AND does its normal job as well.

Ive found that going with Dire runes and getting ur duration from food alone (which i get 40-50%) is enough to keep guardians down; longer fight but with flawless game play u always win in the end. With warriors ur gonna need a lot of poison because they shed it off like a boss! You need it to stop there healing signet or else u will lose against an experienced warrior in the long run.

Narcarsis.5739:

If you find yourself to be a decent player P/D with full berserker is a pretty strong set and fun to play. Also means you don’t have to find new gear. I hit people for about 6-7k on Shadow Strike 2.

Pew pew (Use a super pistol for max fun).

Again though, it’s pretty unforgiving depending on the traits you run.

But.. Pistol/* is mostly condition damage. Zerk gear has none. That really works?

irishking.8956:

Ive found that going with Dire runes and getting ur duration from food alone (which i get 40-50%) is enough to keep guardians down; longer fight but with flawless game play u always win in the end. With warriors ur gonna need a lot of poison because they shed it off like a boss! You need it to stop there healing signet or else u will lose against an experienced warrior in the long run.

right. but dire runes? u mean gear i think right? dire issuch a hit to your power. its basically cutting direct dmg in half or more. thats many thousands of HP per duel. you need more than bleeds to win a fight against a good player. i run carrion. between by blinds , invis , healing , condi removal, and +300 toughness and healing power, and 19k hp, do you really need to drop power on your gear to get extra toughness?

Oghier.7419:

Narcarsis.5739:

If you find yourself to be a decent player P/D with full berserker is a pretty strong set and fun to play. Also means you don’t have to find new gear. I hit people for about 6-7k on Shadow Strike 2.

Pew pew (Use a super pistol for max fun).

Again though, it’s pretty unforgiving depending on the traits you run.

But.. Pistol/* is mostly condition damage. Zerk gear has none. That really works?

it can but not super competitive. shadow strike is a hard hitter but torment is almost useless other than a distraction for the opponent

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Ive found that going with Dire runes and getting ur duration from food alone (which i get 40-50%) is enough to keep guardians down; longer fight but with flawless game play u always win in the end. With warriors ur gonna need a lot of poison because they shed it off like a boss! You need it to stop there healing signet or else u will lose against an experienced warrior in the long run.

right. but dire runes? u mean gear i think right? dire issuch a hit to your power. its basically cutting direct dmg in half or more. thats many thousands of HP per duel. you need more than bleeds to win a fight against a good player. i run carrion. between by blinds , invis , healing , condi removal, and +300 toughness and healing power, and 19k hp, do you really need to drop power on your gear to get extra toughness?

True i have thought about this for a while now and i have not tried carrion yet. With the points into toughness it does help with the food i use (Potent Master tuning crystals condi dmg = to 6% toughness and condi dmg = to 4% vit) because i figure if ur gonna go condi might as well go all in lol. Im running with 2,064 condi dmg thats with 25 stacks from sigil of corruption and 40% duration from veggie pizza. The toughness helps though especially when u run into a group of ele’s and warriors all trying to kill you with aoe and burning everywhere lol

P.S. I would have gone for more condi duration but everyone runes with set ups to shed them like nothing thing so i also took that into account.

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Ive found that going with Dire runes and getting ur duration from food alone (which i get 40-50%) is enough to keep guardians down; longer fight but with flawless game play u always win in the end. With warriors ur gonna need a lot of poison because they shed it off like a boss! You need it to stop there healing signet or else u will lose against an experienced warrior in the long run.

right. but dire runes? u mean gear i think right? dire issuch a hit to your power. its basically cutting direct dmg in half or more. thats many thousands of HP per duel. you need more than bleeds to win a fight against a good player. i run carrion. between by blinds , invis , healing , condi removal, and +300 toughness and healing power, and 19k hp, do you really need to drop power on your gear to get extra toughness?

True i have thought about this for a while now and i have not tried carrion yet. With the points into toughness it does help with the food i use (Potent Master tuning crystals condi dmg = to 6% toughness and condi dmg = to 4% vit) because i figure if ur gonna go condi might as well go all in lol. Im running with 2,064 condi dmg thats with 25 stacks from sigil of corruption and 40% duration from veggie pizza. The toughness helps though especially when u run into a group of ele’s and warriors all trying to kill you with aoe and burning everywhere lol

P.S. I would have gone for more condi duration but everyone runes with set ups to shed them like nothing thing so i also took that into account.

ive run into these -% condi players. annoying but i still win. i have about 900-1200 direct dmg on sneak attack. its not much and even if the bleeds only last 4 secs thats still 3500 total dmg between both or whatever. it really adds up. especially between auto attacks and shadow strike torment…. there are so many condis on a person that they just cant target them all. in the first 1 second of combat…my opponent has this on him…

IN THIS ORDER——-

poison 1 stack (20 seconds or so)
stun 1.25 seconds
vulnerability 3 stacks
blindness 1 stack
bleeding 7 stacks
torment 2 stacks

i run about 90% additional condition time and have about 4 initiative left after this combo hits from 1500 range away and in only about 1 second. after that a few auto attacks…dodges…..if he gets too close shadow strike again or body shot for an ADDITIONAL condition (immobilize)

now you say the 2 damaging conditions are added last so they will get removed first. well thats fine bc they are also the easiest to add back on …. Hide in shadows, shadow refuge, blinding powder, scorp wire etc. its the POISON that you really want to keep on the enemy. i have sleight of hand for extra coodlown….heals with mug…dmg with mug… and most importantly 100% uptime on poison every 20 secs renewed if they dont remove it. its alot to keep up with for an opponent.

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

yeah was writing 2 threads at same time. i mean direct dmg bc too much defense is no good. theres already a defense heavy setup with the traits alone. you need direct dmg to mix in with the condi bc alot of heavies out there run minus condi time. its important. power is MUCH more important than toughnesson armor here. you use about 7-12 sneak attacks per duel. thats about the difference of 4500 – 7500 damage you lose to gain extra toughness? :P eh….. dont be a 1 trick pony. seriously ive run both. dire is no good. that extra dmg makes the world of difference. you can run 0 toughness if u like. the real defense is in the blinds and evades. i run double evades and lots of blinds. also in gap creaters and stealth. if you are in tpvp and wvw run ricochet which makes power even more important.

lets say 80% of your dmg is from conditions. 20 % is from direct dmg with my build.

your build is 90% and 10%. and you save yourself about 1000 hp in a fight with the extra toughness in your build using dire.

many thousands in extra dmg OR 1k extra HP saved? hrm…since i really dont go below 40% in MOST of my fights….. id say the dmg is most important and can put more pressure on heavier fighters to play slightly more defensive and blow that heal early…then….FWAP! stunned….and good game. pressure is vital.

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Travlane.5948:

irishking.8956:

Ive found that going with Dire runes and getting ur duration from food alone (which i get 40-50%) is enough to keep guardians down; longer fight but with flawless game play u always win in the end. With warriors ur gonna need a lot of poison because they shed it off like a boss! You need it to stop there healing signet or else u will lose against an experienced warrior in the long run.

right. but dire runes? u mean gear i think right? dire issuch a hit to your power. its basically cutting direct dmg in half or more. thats many thousands of HP per duel. you need more than bleeds to win a fight against a good player. i run carrion. between by blinds , invis , healing , condi removal, and +300 toughness and healing power, and 19k hp, do you really need to drop power on your gear to get extra toughness?

True i have thought about this for a while now and i have not tried carrion yet. With the points into toughness it does help with the food i use (Potent Master tuning crystals condi dmg = to 6% toughness and condi dmg = to 4% vit) because i figure if ur gonna go condi might as well go all in lol. Im running with 2,064 condi dmg thats with 25 stacks from sigil of corruption and 40% duration from veggie pizza. The toughness helps though especially when u run into a group of ele’s and warriors all trying to kill you with aoe and burning everywhere lol

P.S. I would have gone for more condi duration but everyone runes with set ups to shed them like nothing thing so i also took that into account.

ive run into these -% condi players. annoying but i still win. i have about 900-1200 direct dmg on sneak attack. its not much and even if the bleeds only last 4 secs thats still 3500 total dmg between both or whatever. it really adds up. especially between auto attacks and shadow strike torment…. there are so many condis on a person that they just cant target them all. in the first 1 second of combat…my opponent has this on him…

IN THIS ORDER——-

poison 1 stack (20 seconds or so)
stun 1.25 seconds
vulnerability 3 stacks
blindness 1 stack
bleeding 7 stacks
torment 2 stacks

i run about 90% additional condition time and have about 4 initiative left after this combo hits from 1500 range away and in only about 1 second. after that a few auto attacks…dodges…..if he gets too close shadow strike again or body shot for an ADDITIONAL condition (immobilize)

now you say the 2 damaging conditions are added last so they will get removed first. well thats fine bc they are also the easiest to add back on …. Hide in shadows, shadow refuge, blinding powder, scorp wire etc. its the POISON that you really want to keep on the enemy. i have sleight of hand for extra coodlown….heals with mug…dmg with mug… and most importantly 100% uptime on poison every 20 secs renewed if they dont remove it. its alot to keep up with for an opponent.

right me too i run 10/0/30/0/30 so i also put all of those on one target with steal + 2 skill + 3 skill and the 1 skill out of invis and some times i like to start with short bow and save steal poison for safe keeping on top on the chill from utilities i just trade ur base dmg for more toughness and more condi dmg its fun! Ill have to try out your build and see if giving up some toughness is worth it

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d with the rights runes and sigils is an amazing build to play. its easy but hard to master/play well in a competitive setting.

P/D P/D Sigil of Energy on Pistols. Sigil of Corruption. Sigil of Agony.

10 0 30 0 30

Mug
Cloaked in Shadow, Shadows Embrace, Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Long Reach, Ricochet/Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand

2 Krait 2 Centaur 2 Afflicted (runes) or 6 Torment runes

Full carrion armor and full carrion weapons.

Hide in Shadow
Scorpion Wire/Shadow Step/Caltrops (depends on situation)
Blinding Powder
Shadows refuge
Daggerstorm/Thieves Guild

Rock n Roll have fun! this build can beat anything including d/p and pesky warrior guard builds. high healing is important to keep up that poison so make sure those steals hit and not get blocked/dodged. torment on melee…its pretty strait forward. you average 6 stuns a minute…not as high as a warrior but time it forheals andbig moves.

IMO carrion isnt as useful now that dire is available since power doesn’t scale your condi damage. Better off having higher armor because the direct damage is more or less laughable.

dire is better defense. but the defense is already superb. dont need more. need power for poison dmg. and direct dmg. some classes have -65% condi removal time so youneed to have 1100 dmg on sneak attacks etc. it really adds up! even burst thieves dont make me fret. takes 3-4 good crit backstabs to take down this build.

Power doesn’t make poison damage any better. Might is the only thing that effects your condi damage that also adds power. Power is a wasted stat. Most dont run -65% condi duration and thats limited to certain classes/builds. Toughness on the other hand is absolutely not a wasted stat.

went in with testing conditions ….. the difference between direct dmg is 100%. that is carrion deals 100% MORE than dire. guess power isnt as wasted a stat as you claim. now if we dothe math …which i wont bc its 2am now…but i can tommorow if u like. the extra toughness …few hundred or w.e. it is…. only realistically saves you hundreds of hp? 400? 600? 700? over a 1 v 1 fight i mean. 100% dmg or save 3-4% of your HP during a fight from ever being taken. thats the way it should be looked at. no which ever you choose is truly up to you…. and again i can do the exact math using the toughness formula if you TRULY want to know but if u know how toughness works….its never really worth taking over HP stat. its quite minor. trust me i bought rabid and apothecary just to try it out. wasnt impressed. lost way to much attack and fights take too long and didnt really notice much of an HP change. very experienced thief here so if i couldnt tell the hp % change than its just not a stat i found worth taking. hope u found this informative

i also don’t kno the exact numbers right now but it helps with the food! also dire gives u health and toughness with condi dmg so ur just giving ur self more time in a fight to let the condi’s do there job against tanky high health classes

Travlane.5948:

Carob.6789:

I run a 30/10/30/0/0 full rabid set and lyssa runes. I have p/d (giver) in both sets with sigil of doom, sigil of ice and sigil of corruption. With rare veggie pizza i have +100 condition duration.

i like 100% condition duration. but i went more for condition dmg.

Why? well think about this. if you ahve 100% condition time. so lets say each bleed is 10 secs and now is 20 secs with your gear. the opponent has -90% condition time. so you figure eh its only 11 secs now right?….. nope. its 2 secs of condition time. the – % is always twice as strong as the + % due to the – being applied AFTER. i think the -% should be applied first as it almost entirely negates the +% AND does its normal job as well.

but with my build duration is more usefull than cond damage. Infact in few sec i put:
bleed, chill, cripple, poison, torment, vulnerability and weakness. And with 40% crit chance and +20% damage (10% Exposed Weakness +10% Pistol Mastery) i have a good damage output.