P/D wvw help

P/D wvw help

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Posted by: Budchgon.2108

Budchgon.2108

Is it still viable? or is the meta d/p ?

I am thinking rabid gear/weapons/trinkets
Undead runes

Earth/torment sigils in weapons

But not sure of the build (mostly for roaming/small group)

Lyssia Iceblood of Gandara – I sometimes win… but not often :-(

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Posted by: Toastybob.7189

Toastybob.7189

I do P/D with SB or DD offhand and go 30 into deadly arts 25 into acrobatics and 15 into initiative and use shadow refuge roll for initiative and the smoke bomb for utility and hide in shadows for my shadow and the ultimate that spawns 2 thieves. It gives a lot of mobility and condition damage but i have been using carrion items rather than rabid.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

go dire gear
still viable and fun to play

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Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

It works, but can be frustrating to play at times.

Most classes carry lots of Condition cleansing so you’ll have a hard time applying pressure. You really need to spam lots of different condition types in order to cover your Bleeds.

But worst of all you cannot prevent someone from reviving his fallen team-mate. So you’re really just going to be doing 1v1 with a build that takes a long time to kill and gives everyone ample opportunity to escape if they wish.

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Posted by: MarkusParkus.8467

MarkusParkus.8467

Hey I use this.. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmKPHfy0E+5EB3Dna0m6p4ritTBWlPA-jUzA4MBRKQApFQpwioxWwCSNLalvwqnjsqGQvgpWTqHBzrkUhAWMHA-w

With dire gear instead, seems to work great and also slippery enough for small group fights.

Furious Scumbag, Raging Scumbag & Geologist Greywind
[NOX] & [Coma] – Gunnar’s Hold.

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Posted by: Ejiofor.4801

Ejiofor.4801

A few months ago I started a P/D and SB Thief, with Skale Venom, Caltrops, a Spike Trap, with Thieves Guild. I use the Heal Evade.

As I suck at anything remotely related to Stealth, I focused on a strength. Distance and Condition Damage.

Overall I’m really enjoying this build. Though only lvl 42, I was able to win a 1v1 in WvW against a full on lvl 80 Ranger. I got lucky. Those Torments saved my butt lol.

The short cooldown on the heal evade skill also saved me more times than I could count. Applying Poison with Steal, and getting the Might helped as well.

And for the record I main an Rifle SD/ Turrets/Tool Kit Engineer. I always enjoy fighting Thieves. For me, they are my real challenge

Gearstrip Jones, Engineer, Borlis Pass, [KPUP]
“Which Lo Pan? Little ol’ basket case on wheels, or the ten-foot-tall roadblock?!”
-Kurt Russell, Big Trouble in Little China

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Posted by: Remus.7312

Remus.7312

Ok I donno what these guys are talking about cause I think P/D is the strongest build for thief atm.

I use this build: tinyurl.com/owmkwpp

I get up to 1,8k condi damage with all my buffs up so the damage is pretty good, 1 or 2 stealth bursts with the pistol can down most people.
I admit it isn’t as fast as a zerker thief but you got way more survival than a zerker thief.
The idea for perplexity runes and was my guildie’s and it seems to work out really well, its quite worth it, even if just for the 3 confusion applied on hit.
If you interrupt someone it applies 5 confusion, I use scorpion wire and steal for interrupts.

P.S. I don’t use Rabid just cause I tried it once and it didn’t provide enough survival for me, its more a necro or engi thing since they got on crit traits. If you can’t afford Dire try Carrion I used that for a long time before I got Dire.
Also, d/p is only used in this build for perma stealth but thats getting nerfed on the 10th so I’ll suggest not using that after then, just use shortbow instead.

Piken Square
Inner Monkey [IM]

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Posted by: Remus.7312

Remus.7312

Edit: accidental double post

Piken Square
Inner Monkey [IM]

(edited by Remus.7312)

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Posted by: Oghier.7419

Oghier.7419

It’s viable. It’s fun. It’s easier to play and more survivable than backstab builds. As others have said, pick Dire or Carrion gear and make sure your setup applies multiple conditions to add damage and cover the bleed stacks.

There are two primary downsides:

1) Your nice condition gear won’t translate well to group-based PvE play. Power/ Crit is the meta there

2) You cannot make full use of the shortbow, which is just an extraordinary weapon for thieves

P/D is getting buffed on 12/10. None of the major nerfs hit this spec, so you’ll have more initiative overall.

Snit Dirtnap (Thief)
Ratbag Dogsticker (Guardian)
…Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: Oghier.7419

Oghier.7419

Also, d/p is only used in this build for perma stealth but thats getting nerfed on the 10th so I’ll suggest not using that after then, just use shortbow instead.

Instead of shortbow, have you considered D/D as an offhand? Deathblossom is nice, especially for a build without ricochet (though shortbow also has AoE tagging covered). The real difference, though, would be Heartseeker mobility. It vastly increases your escapability and overland speed. SB5 has some of this, but Heartseeker is better (clear your target, heartseeker x3 to gain distance, shadow refuge, gone!).

Snit Dirtnap (Thief)
Ratbag Dogsticker (Guardian)
…Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: epandrsn.5126

epandrsn.5126

It works, but can be frustrating to play at times.

Most classes carry lots of Condition cleansing so you’ll have a hard time applying pressure. You really need to spam lots of different condition types in order to cover your Bleeds.

But worst of all you cannot prevent someone from reviving his fallen team-mate. So you’re really just going to be doing 1v1 with a build that takes a long time to kill and gives everyone ample opportunity to escape if they wish.

I agree with this fully. It’s a phenomenal dueling build, lots of survivability and damage avoidance. My big gripe was lack of immediate damage pressure and being very vulnerable to hambow warriors (what class isn’t, lol).

I’ve tried several variations on the build, but you will want Carrion/Soldiers for WvW. I run P/D and SB and use P/D 95% of the time. The rotation is basically stealth>pistol 1>pistol 3(if close and have extra init. to dump)>dodge through your opponent with dodgetrops>Stealth and let some stuff tick>pistol 1, rinse and repeat.

P/D is a forgiving way to learn positioning, especially with the extra soldiers gear. After playing it all through season 1, I am currently switching over to a yishis-style backstab build. As many duels as I’ve won with a P/D build, I want more of a high-damage assassin build now that I really know the class. The scariest thieves, in my opinion, are the ones you absolutely know are about to line up a brutal backstab on you. It’s nerve wracking, and nerves often win fights.

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Posted by: epandrsn.5126

epandrsn.5126

It’s viable. It’s fun. It’s easier to play and more survivable than backstab builds. As others have said, pick Dire or Carrion gear and make sure your setup applies multiple conditions to add damage and cover the bleed stacks.

There are two primary downsides:

1) Your nice condition gear won’t translate well to group-based PvE play. Power/ Crit is the meta there

2) You cannot make full use of the shortbow, which is just an extraordinary weapon for thieves

P/D is getting buffed on 12/10. None of the major nerfs hit this spec, so you’ll have more initiative overall.

I agree, shortbow is underwhelming as heck with P/D. D/D is a better off-hand, as DB stacks a huge amount of bleeds while you are constantly evading. If you run Signet of Malice, it also restores 1k+ health per DB.

As far as init. is concerned, P/D almost always has a surplus of initiative. You basically only use it for CnD and Pistol 3, or Pistol 2 if your target is fleeing. I rarely, if ever run out, so it’s a sort of moot point that we get more.

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Posted by: Fade.7658

Fade.7658

But worst of all you cannot prevent someone from reviving his fallen team-mate. So you’re really just going to be doing 1v1 with a build that takes a long time to kill and gives everyone ample opportunity to escape if they wish.

Use caltrops on their team mate. Unless they’re beefy, they’ll have to kitten or get off the pot, or die/get low on health. Works great on other thieves with Shadow Refuge.

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Posted by: makiface.3286

makiface.3286

People keep suggesting Dire, but I’m pretty sure somebody did the math and found that the measly survivability you get from the toughness is far outweighed by the increased attack capability gained by power. Trying to find the post now.

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Posted by: Remus.7312

Remus.7312

But worst of all you cannot prevent someone from reviving his fallen team-mate.

My build has a few interrupts to hit those guys with, it may be worth a try. :P

Instead of shortbow, have you considered D/D as an offhand? Deathblossom is nice, especially for a build without ricochet (though shortbow also has AoE tagging covered). The real difference, though, would be Heartseeker mobility. It vastly increases your escapability and overland speed. SB5 has some of this, but Heartseeker is better (clear your target, heartseeker x3 to gain distance, shadow refuge, gone!).

I might give it a go, I don’t normally use it just cause I don’t like skills that burn all my initiative. So that’s why I have stayed away from it, and thing like PW and S/D builds

People keep suggesting Dire, but I’m pretty sure somebody did the math and found that the measly survivability you get from the toughness is far outweighed by the increased attack capability gained by power. Trying to find the post now.

Oh really? That sounds interesting, I’d like to see that. Maybe its time to switch back to carrion.

On another note, all the best thieves I know at some point or another have switched to P/D so they can solo keeps in wvw, its very good at that.

Piken Square
Inner Monkey [IM]

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Posted by: Master of Timespace.2548

Master of Timespace.2548

People keep suggesting Dire, but I’m pretty sure somebody did the math and found that the measly survivability you get from the toughness is far outweighed by the increased attack capability gained by power. Trying to find the post now.

That someone did the math wrong.

? <(^-^><)>^-^)> <(^-^)> ?

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Posted by: animalmom.1062

animalmom.1062

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Posted by: Phoenixfudge.5290

Phoenixfudge.5290

It’s incredibly viable for solo roaming. It’s also incredibly fun. With the right build you can get the best mobility in the game hands down. The only thing that comes close is a s/w and gs warrior.

Having the best mobility in the game is pretty useful when running from an angry mob/zerg.

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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

It’s incredibly viable for solo roaming. It’s also incredibly fun. With the right build you can get the best mobility in the game hands down. The only thing that comes close is a s/w and gs warrior.

Having the best mobility in the game is pretty useful when running from an angry mob/zerg.

How exactly do you achieve the best mobility with P/D? I’m not talking utility here, but even then, I don’t think anything comes close to S/W+GS warrior. Maybe in the initial sprint thanks to teleports and steal, but after that, the warrior has better cooldowns on his mobility skills. And that’s without considering insta cleansing movement impairing conditions.

Other then that, I agree with you on viability for solo roaming P/D. And it is a lot of fun.

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
Hulk Roaming Montages/Build Vids
I always rage but never quit.

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Posted by: Phoenixfudge.5290

Phoenixfudge.5290

Build is 5/0/30/15/20

Centaur Runes

Movement skills:
Healing skill- Withdraw
Shortbow 5 (with sigil of energy)- Infiltrator’s Arrow
Utility- Shadowstep

Acrobatics gives you swiftness on dodge, vigor on heal and dodges use 33% endurance instead of 50%. With centaur runes (heal skill withdraw) and a couple dodges you get permaswiftness.

Also the initiative base increase in Trickery let’s you use shortbow 5 twice in a row in most situations.

So we have permaswiftness, a ton of dodges and an instant “escape button” by switching to shortbow for an extra free dodge and using shortbow 5.

With the recent patch, vigor on heal and steal is nerfed a bit but overall intuitive regen buff should aid shortbow 5 use. Withdraw is a great movement skill as (traited) it comes with the vigor, swiftness and heals snares. However most movement comes from sb 5.

I’m not exactly sure if this is completely faster than GS+ s/w warrior but I can sure as hell get out of any situation in wvw if I want to. The only times I die is if I get greedy and stay in combat. Also keep in mind that thieves use teleports which are unaffected by chill, immob, cripple whereas warriors use leaps and rushes which are affected by these conditions. I’m not sure but warriors may have a better “speed burst”. However in the long run with constant use of withdraw and short 5 I think thief wins in mobility. Shortbow is a great secondary to p/d because poison field, extra evades with skill 3 and sigil of energy, and escape tool. Whereas no warrior in the right mind uses s/w and gs at the same time.

TL:DR: Assume both classes have permaswiftness. Thief’s main movement skill is Shortbow 5 with a CD of 6 seconds with current patch (previously was 8 seconds) and can be used twice in a row if needed. Withdraw every 15 seconds. Shadowstep (50 cd) if needed. Warrior, assuming he is crazy enough to use both s/w and gs at the same time will have Savage Leap (8 cd), Whirlwind Attack (8 or 10 cd) and Rush (16 or 20 cd). Use Bull Rush if needed.

Real TL:DR, sooooo theoretically thief can travel over 10200 units per minute. warriors can travel 12000. So I guess warriors are better. This is all just a silly estimation of course. Plenty of other factors to consider like how swiftness affects leaps, combat slow etc. However, I still consider thief to have the best mobility due to other factors and sheer experience.

All this typing….we should just do an ingame race between warrior and thief, lol.

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Posted by: jaif.3518

jaif.3518

So, how does an engineer with med kit and rune of centaur (=perma swiftness, esp with med kit 5), rocket boots for a leap, and slick shoes for double speed stack up?

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Posted by: Doomdesire.9365

Doomdesire.9365

It’s viable until you meet a Diamond Skin Ele, then you might as well waypoint.

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Posted by: Kande.1930

Kande.1930

It’s viable until you meet a Diamond Skin Ele, then you might as well waypoint.

Funny you should mention that. Literally like 2 minutes after the patch comes in, I run into a DS ele while soloing a camp. Had to run away cause I didn’t have enough power to punch through DS. The measly damage I was dealing, he just healed right away to keep his health above the threshold.

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Posted by: Doomdesire.9365

Doomdesire.9365

It’s viable until you meet a Diamond Skin Ele, then you might as well waypoint.

Funny you should mention that. Literally like 2 minutes after the patch comes in, I run into a DS ele while soloing a camp. Had to run away cause I didn’t have enough power to punch through DS. The measly damage I was dealing, he just healed right away to keep his health above the threshold.

That’s pretty much how it works. P/D is utterly useless against a DS ele. What measly damage you do they totally mitigate by their heals. It’s a broken trait but hey, elementalists still claim it’s “only 1.5K HP and is fair”

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Posted by: Elthuzar.9478

Elthuzar.9478

Dire stats with P/D is great. I was using scavenger runes at one stage and getting over 2k condition damage with corruption stacks but didn’t really need to stack it that high so I replaced the scavenger runes with condition duration increase runes, 2xLyssa, 2xmad king and 2x centaur/krait or afflicted. The aim was to keep base condition dmg high while keep duration as close to 100% as possible (with pizza).

The Painted Norn of [WILD]We Intercept Lost Dolyaks

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Posted by: Shufflepants.9785

Shufflepants.9785

This is what I’ve been using with great sucess:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlcmKP3eS6E+5EB3Dnm0m694ri1saFoJA-jUCB4MCi0Cgk0BKFKs5QDRrsuIasaGYaUER1eEFRrWKAYWWB-w

Obviously some of my pieces would be improved with ascended versions, but as of yet there are no carrion ascended trinkets :P I think I prefer carrion to dire since at a thieves base health and armor, stacking vitality gives more effective health than stacking toughness for quite awhile and toughness doesn’t help against conditions and there are a lot of other people out there running condition builds, and that extra power isn’t completely wasted. Toughness from dire is such a small increase in survivability. If I’m taking that much direct damage that toughness would start to matter, I’m going to want to hide or book it anyway.

The confusion on perplexity runes are still great after the nerf to them. The nerf just added a cooldown on the #6 bonus and the only way I can interrupt with this build to begin with was with steal or stolen items so I will never really hit the cooldown anyway.

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Posted by: Sceinna.3561

Sceinna.3561

(Swap Skale Venom out for Spider Venom, less direct damage but easier to apply, deals similar damage because your opponent heals -33% less. Also my traits are slightly different because I use might on dodge (trait) together with might on stealth it adds up very quickly to 12~ stacks or so, thats a nice extra condi damage) Most viable WvW build for me atm, can be frustrating 1vX though with AoE condition removals around, you’ll need to put a lot of pressure and stay alive, takes some skill to perform with.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAqY4alYmKNHfS6E95EB3Dj60m6p4rjtTBXlPA-jkCB4iChoOYUADZk6AiABOTqIas1MFRjV3ATxiIq2joIa1SBAzaA-w