Guild Wars 2

So, right off the bat the class/build that appealed to me most of all was a dual pistols thief. However, especially at lower levels, I found myself dying the second I got an add, and having issues with things my Guardian just roflstomped through.

Is this normal? Is P/P just not a leveling spec? Am I just bad?

Any tips for a prospective gunslinger?

It’s quite normal.

Thieves don’t have much survivability when leveling, relying mostly on Stealth (To escape combat and pause the attacks of enemies), Blinds (Through auto-attacking in Black Powder with decent damage/cleaving auto-attacks) or condition damage combined with cripples.

The P/P weapon set lacks a lot of what is usually used by Thieves, it’s entirely single target (Unless picking up Ricochet which is terrible anyway) doesn’t have access to stealth and it’s damage is revolved around Unload which hogs initiative preventing use of Black Powder.

That said, an okay build could probably be made out of going Condition based and using Caltrops and Black Powder combined with auto-attacks to stack up some bleeds whilst keeping targets Crippled (So easy to kite) and Blind (So attacks will miss) though it’d lack damage compared to a D/D condition build (Auto-attack is 1 bleed for 4 seconds per ~0.75 seconds where Death Blossom is 3 bleeds for 10 seconds that also evades when using and can be spammed 3-4 times in a row)

If you want to be a gunslinger, try the engineer.

its good. you just need to elarn to move and not stand still.

P/P single target
ShortBow multi targets

takes 0.5 secs to swap to it. and spam cluster bomb, detonate it before it hits the ground as its then 4x explosions per target, and works very well with signet of malice.

going P/P short bow you forsake stealth for ranged damage and longlasting power. you can use zerker gear everywhere then, and lets face it even in full defense gear your gonna get 1 shotted by bosses cos thief are just squishy.

so follow the 5Ds
dodge
duck
dip
dive
and dodge !1!

Honestly using P/P at any level requires a high degree of… I’ll be nice and say “attention,” although what I want to say is “running away like a pansy when aggro-ed by mobs then swtich to SB and kill things, then switching back to p/p just to be like YEA!!! AND WHAT!!!!” But I digress.

In terms of just leveling thieves, nothing worked better for me than sword/pistol. It pwns melee mobs so hard with chaining blinding powder and autoattacking (apply BP, get 5 autoattack hits off, BP again, etc) , sometimes pistol whipping (although that got nerfed as of late). Only thing you need to worry about is ranged targets, and for that infiltrator strike and shadow strike is awesome (teleports you to target, you can autoattack/pw target down and shadow step back).

So, what you can do is either have p/p and sb weaponset or s/p and p/p weaponset (for ranged single targets).

P/P is an awful weapon set where you just spam one ability that does very unimpressive single target damage with no real AoE or defensive options. If you’re leveling, S/P with shortbow is king. Group up mobs in your black powder circle and cleave them down. Pistol Whi kitten ituationally useful for interrupt/evade spam. #2 is a decent condition removal/stunbreak.

Thieves in general are optimized for PvP and are pretty bad in PvE, particularly at lower levels, for various reasons:

- Melee focus despite shoddy defense and worst-in-game health
- Lack of damage mitigation/avoidance and surival utility
- Stealth balanced for PvP offense and consequently inadequate for PvE defense
- A downed state that is hilariously awful for solo PvE (in part because of Stealth’s mechanics).

On top of that, P/P has a number of additional problems:

- Single target only, the only AoE option, Ricochet, wont’ come until later and is pretty bad anyway.
- Identity crisis- Vital Shot and Unload have terrible synergy and neither is amazing enough on its own for that to work out well
- Body Shot is entirely useless unless you’re in a full group and no one else has Vulnerability.
- Maintaining even mediocre DPS (mostly due to the problems with Vital Shot/Unload) requires dumping Initiative continuously into Unload, meaning that you stay perpetually Initiative starved and can’t make proper use of Black Powder or Headshot, leaving you with no utility.

In other words, there are a number of things that really need to be looked at with the Thief profession, but they’re mostly focus on trying to make sure they aren’t OP in PvP, which is getting a little annoying.

For leveling, the best sets are definitely S/P, D/D, and Shortbow.

Truthfully, Vital Shot, Body Shot, and Unload are all 3 in need of a buff, as is the Ricochet trait that provides limited AoE ability. Until they do that, both P/P and P/D are going to be very mediocre and extremely situational. It might be worth using in tough boss fights.

p/p can kill most normal mobs with 2x unload if ur gear is correct in pve. its not a bad build. even in WVW u can really put a hurrting on players ..ive personally killed hundreds with it. just make sure you have invis/evades ready bc there is very very low mobility with p/p

Ekemeister.8905:

If you want to be a gunslinger, try the engineer.

I took a look, but I want a straight gunfighter – Engi is very gimmicky with gadgets etc.

Travlane.5948:

p/p can kill most normal mobs with 2x unload if ur gear is correct in pve. its not a bad build. even in WVW u can really put a hurrting on players ..ive personally killed hundreds with it. just make sure you have invis/evades ready bc there is very very low mobility with p/p

1v1 regular mobs aren’t a problem. But anything that can survive a few unloads, or do frontloaded ranged damage absolutely flattens me, and if I get more than one mob, I’m probably dead.

On the other hand, my guardian can take 3-4 in similar gear and not even break a sweat.

I would strongly recommend taking 30 in both Acrobatics and Critical Strikes.
Critical Strikes has the +10% Pistol damage trait, valuable Precision and Critical Damage, and Opportunist is practically assured to trigger when using Unload, effectively reducing the cost by 1. If you’re lucky, you could actually trigger it twice in a single use.
Critical Haste used to be an absolutely amazing trait for P/P as well, but it was nerfed by half last patch and isn’t so great.
Acrobatics boosts Dodges and general mobility, which are you’re only means of staying alive with P/P. On top of that, it provides great options for boosting Initiative regeneration, which is vital to the Initiative hogging weapon set.
The remaining 10 trait points would be well placed in Trickery. Every time you Steal you get 3 more Initiative on top of being able to Steal more often, and you can take Thrill of the Crime to gain Fury, Might and Swiftness every time you Steal. All of which are amazing for the build. On top of that, it pairs extremely well with Acrobatics and the +Boon Duration.

As for skills, I’d recommend Smoke Screen. Negates ranged attacks, blinds any melee that rush through it, and your ranged attacks fired through it can trigger even more blinding.
ABSOLUTELY take Signet of Malice as your heal, coupled with the signet boosting traits from Critical Strikes. The nearly constant Vigor will let you dodge like crazy, combined with great Initiative recovery and Might stacks.
Even if you don’t find the need to trigger it at a particular point, the passive healing with Unload is great.
Also take Signet of Agility. Beautiful Precision boost when not in use, and more Endurance plus condition removal and all those other traited goodies when you trigger it.
If you took another signet and triggered all three together, you’d get 6 Initiative and 15 stacks of Might (roughly +26% damage), allowing you to absolutely destroy your target.

For armor, focus mostly on Berserker stats, with some others like Valkyrie thrown in for Vitality. Especially focus on making all Trinkets Berserker, since they scale the Critical Damage far better than on armor.
Definitely get some On Critical sigils for your pistols. Fire is a good one you’ll definitely want.

P/P is largely a condition spec, and conditions are pretty bad for leveling overall. Also it is single target, so you usually only want to pair it with multi targeting abilities.

That said, Unload doe shave some pretty good DPS.

P/P is not largely a condition spec. thats P/D with vital shot stealth ability.

P/P with unload is direct damage. once you learn a ranged mobs patterns and know when to dodge u can just slaughter everything.

full zerker gear + signet of malice + omnom berry pie (or same food for lower lvls) even with the internal CD now it heals alot due to high hit volume from unload.

no P/P does not hit as hard as melee based weapons (duh) but it lets u do fights that normally cause melee to run around like a headless chicken avoiding AoE and boss attacks. while P/P u strafe circles around the boss keeping a constant and reliable source of damage.

and if you spec into +3 int and int on crit regain, you quickly see how long your int actually lasts. i can just spam unload all day and only have to stop every now and then (also when using dodge or LoS attacks that lets u regain int).

yes P/P lacks some damage and yes it can use a buff. but its still very nice to use ikittennow how to use it.

alot of people who say its bad just stand still and dont move (u can shoot while moving like zomg wtf no wai) and if u shoot then jump u keep shooting while jumping (unload) so u can hop all over the place (i play asura so i need to jump !).

krixis.9538:

P/P is not largely a condition spec. thats P/D with vital shot stealth ability.

P/P with unload is direct damage. once you learn a ranged mobs patterns and know when to dodge u can just slaughter everything.

full zerker gear + signet of malice + omnom berry pie (or same food for lower lvls) even with the internal CD now it heals alot due to high hit volume from unload.

no P/P does not hit as hard as melee based weapons (duh) but it lets u do fights that normally cause melee to run around like a headless chicken avoiding AoE and boss attacks. while P/P u strafe circles around the boss keeping a constant and reliable source of damage.

and if you spec into +3 int and int on crit regain, you quickly see how long your int actually lasts. i can just spam unload all day and only have to stop every now and then (also when using dodge or LoS attacks that lets u regain int).

yes P/P lacks some damage and yes it can use a buff. but its still very nice to use ikittennow how to use it.

alot of people who say its bad just stand still and dont move (u can shoot while moving like zomg wtf no wai) and if u shoot then jump u keep shooting while jumping (unload) so u can hop all over the place (i play asura so i need to jump !).

P/P is bad because most of the attacks don’t work together. It’s direct damage but both the auto attack and stealth attack are pure condition damage, leaving you with only Unload to actually deal damage.
Because you don’t have a decent auto-attack, you blow through initiative spamming Unload to kill stuff.
Because you can’t kill stuff without blowing Initiative on Unload, you don’t have any Initiative for Blackpowder or Headshot.
Body Shot is also just full-blown garbage and a waste of a skill slot.

Grimwolf.7163:

krixis.9538:

P/P is not largely a condition spec. thats P/D with vital shot stealth ability.

P/P with unload is direct damage. once you learn a ranged mobs patterns and know when to dodge u can just slaughter everything.

full zerker gear + signet of malice + omnom berry pie (or same food for lower lvls) even with the internal CD now it heals alot due to high hit volume from unload.

no P/P does not hit as hard as melee based weapons (duh) but it lets u do fights that normally cause melee to run around like a headless chicken avoiding AoE and boss attacks. while P/P u strafe circles around the boss keeping a constant and reliable source of damage.

and if you spec into +3 int and int on crit regain, you quickly see how long your int actually lasts. i can just spam unload all day and only have to stop every now and then (also when using dodge or LoS attacks that lets u regain int).

yes P/P lacks some damage and yes it can use a buff. but its still very nice to use ikittennow how to use it.

alot of people who say its bad just stand still and dont move (u can shoot while moving like zomg wtf no wai) and if u shoot then jump u keep shooting while jumping (unload) so u can hop all over the place (i play asura so i need to jump !).

P/P is bad because most of the attacks don’t work together. It’s direct damage but both the auto attack and stealth attack are pure condition damage, leaving you with only Unload to actually deal damage.
Because you don’t have a decent auto-attack, you blow through initiative spamming Unload to kill stuff.
Because you can’t kill stuff without blowing Initiative on Unload, you don’t have any Initiative for Blackpowder or Headshot.
Body Shot is also just full-blown garbage and a waste of a skill slot.

This. Vital Shot is too slow/weak to provide adequate DPS support, forcing you to stay Initiative starved by spamming Unload and consequently canceling out any utility you might otherwise get from the set. Body Shot is also mostly useless.

It’s really just bad and needs a redo. It could be improved substantially if they either increased the rate of fire or the direct damage done by Vital Shot.

Einlanzer.1627:

Grimwolf.7163:

krixis.9538:

P/P is not largely a condition spec. thats P/D with vital shot stealth ability.

P/P with unload is direct damage. once you learn a ranged mobs patterns and know when to dodge u can just slaughter everything.

full zerker gear + signet of malice + omnom berry pie (or same food for lower lvls) even with the internal CD now it heals alot due to high hit volume from unload.

no P/P does not hit as hard as melee based weapons (duh) but it lets u do fights that normally cause melee to run around like a headless chicken avoiding AoE and boss attacks. while P/P u strafe circles around the boss keeping a constant and reliable source of damage.

and if you spec into +3 int and int on crit regain, you quickly see how long your int actually lasts. i can just spam unload all day and only have to stop every now and then (also when using dodge or LoS attacks that lets u regain int).

yes P/P lacks some damage and yes it can use a buff. but its still very nice to use ikittennow how to use it.

alot of people who say its bad just stand still and dont move (u can shoot while moving like zomg wtf no wai) and if u shoot then jump u keep shooting while jumping (unload) so u can hop all over the place (i play asura so i need to jump !).

P/P is bad because most of the attacks don’t work together. It’s direct damage but both the auto attack and stealth attack are pure condition damage, leaving you with only Unload to actually deal damage.
Because you don’t have a decent auto-attack, you blow through initiative spamming Unload to kill stuff.
Because you can’t kill stuff without blowing Initiative on Unload, you don’t have any Initiative for Blackpowder or Headshot.
Body Shot is also just full-blown garbage and a waste of a skill slot.

This. Vital Shot is too slow/weak to provide adequate DPS support, forcing you to stay Initiative starved by spamming Unload and consequently canceling out any utility you might otherwise get from the set. Body Shot is also mostly useless.

It’s really just bad and needs a redo. It could be improved substantially if they either increased the rate of fire or the direct damage done by Vital Shot.

Vital Shot needs to fire at the 0.5 fire (0.0 refire.) rate it was intended. (Currently its 0.96, about the same as rifle.)

Unload needs a 50% Increase in damage, or boon-hate (10% damage per boon.)

Body Shot needs to set people on fire and be more of a condition based attack with high power. Vulnerability just isn’t what P/P does or should do.

Headshot needs to do damage, or apply confusion. One or the other.

Black Powder needs to do damage, period.

All pistol attacks need to be able to be shot at 1200 range and pierce with traits.

Keep in mind that Body Shot, for all its shortcomings, is a 100% Projectile Finisher. YaY!

WyldKat.4712:

Keep in mind that Body Shot, for all its shortcomings, is a 100% Projectile Finisher. YaY!

Yay, Warrior’s Longbows ‘1’ which fires faster, is 2 100% projectile finishers

Pistol/pistol has little or no defense. You can get round this by using utilities such as smokescreen that defends against ranged enemies and blinds enemies standing inside it. Calrops and traps can cripple melee based enemies while you run round them. Ambush traps can get you an extra thief to fight for you. If you’ve got signet of shadows then do use it for blinding, even at range.

There are other ways to go about this though. If you want to shoot crippled enemies you could try pistol/dagger that has a long cripple on up to 3 enemies. If you’re blinding nearby enemies in smoke then sword/pistol will do plenty of damage with auto-attacks and can create its own smoke.

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to shelve my gunslinger until I’ve got another 80 to fund it at least, or until the set gets a buff. For such a cool, iconic and unique style, it’s very sad that it’s so crappy and badly designed.

Starbird.4029:

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to shelve my gunslinger until I’ve got another 80 to fund it at least, or until the set gets a buff. For such a cool, iconic and unique style, it’s SO AWESOME AND CLASSY AND I DON’T EVEN CARE

Pump Devil May Cry music and suddenly you’re the coolest kid on the block.

I wouldn’t give up on p/p – it just isn’t really a PvE weapon set. You level with something else and then you can use p/p in WvW.
AoE weapons are better for leveling. I’d use Shortbow or Sword/Pistol. Shortbow you have zero-range cluster bomb spam (hit 2 as fast as possible when mobs in melee range), auto attack hits 3 targets, #3 is a cheap evade/cripple, #4 gives long duration poison. Sword/Pistol gives AoE attacks, teleport enter (+teleport escape) on #2, plus a blind field (#5). So you teleport in, drop a black powder field, auto attack, teleport out if your health gets too low (make the mobs stand in your black powder field so they are blinded which will drastically cut their damage).
Once you are leveled to 80, switch to berserker p/p. My guildie kills people very quickly with his Unloads in WvW.

I switched to S/P for leveling. Its great for taking out the trash and you look downright kitten blasting away with Black Powder while your sword’s raised.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I wouldn’t give up on p/p – it just isn’t really a PvE weapon set. You level with something else and then you can use p/p in WvW.
AoE weapons are better for leveling. I’d use Shortbow or Sword/Pistol. Shortbow you have zero-range cluster bomb spam (hit 2 as fast as possible when mobs in melee range), auto attack hits 3 targets, #3 is a cheap evade/cripple, #4 gives long duration poison. Sword/Pistol gives AoE attacks, teleport enter (+teleport escape) on #2, plus a blind field (#5). So you teleport in, drop a black powder field, auto attack, teleport out if your health gets too low (make the mobs stand in your black powder field so they are blinded which will drastically cut their damage).
Once you are leveled to 80, switch to berserker p/p. My guildie kills people very quickly with his Unloads in WvW.

Thing is though – leveling is a big part of this game…and I do enjoy PvP.

I’ll give Shortbow a look though.

P/P only works if you have the money to go balls out with zerker gear, something like 25/30/0/15/0 and a method of stacking might and even then it’s pretty bad.

If you want the easy PvE route, go P/D for bosses or D/? for questing. Signet of Malice + 15-point Deadly Arts = you just have to auto attack mobs to death and you won’t die.

I don’t want to join the debate about P/P viability, it definitely could use some love. That said it’s totally viable for PvE. Sure, other sets may be more efficient, but play what you like!

I go 0/30/0/20/20. This gives you good damage, and good survivability through excessive use of dodge.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cRRV;1ZwFa0J5wOkd0;9;5T-JJ;148A;118-46w

I like rolling with Ambush, as it’s on a low cooldown and I find the bro-Thief hits smart and hard. I will usually use Steal to get into range, then lay the trap to be sure it goes off. Then just dodge back. -Or- you could run up to the mob, have them trigger Ambush first, then Steal so you can buff your bro via Thrill of the Crime.

Even though this isn’t a stealth build, Shadow Refug is a good ‘oh crap’ util to have.

You do have to spam Unload a lot with Dual Pistols. If you are facing multiple mobs and get them all in close, then you can abuse Black Powder for the blind. However, when facing 3 or more mobs I always switch over the Shortbow.

For gear you can go straight Berserker, semi-defensive with either Valkyrie or Knight, or defensive with Soldier. At the moment, I’m in Soldier gear mostly for WvW, but I don’t find I’m hitting like a wet noodle in PvE. Trinkets and such, I go Berserker all the way. Be sure to keep your gear updated, every 5-10 levels you should make sure it’s up to date, otherwise you’ll feel weak in any spec.

Hope that helps!
-Cowboy

Mm. Going to focus on getting my Guardian to 80 and maybe using it to bankroll a thief up to a level where it starts being fun. D/D or any melee honestly just doesn’t appeal to me.

Starbird.4029:

Mm. Going to focus on getting my Guardian to 80 and maybe using it to bankroll a thief up to a level where it starts being fun. D/D or any melee honestly just doesn’t appeal to me.

I’m under the impression that a Thief gameplay doesn’t become magically ‘fun’ at some level, but is rather ‘fun’ because you enjoy the mechanics and flow of combat.

I had a Thief at launch last year, but got angry and deleted it. A month ago I started a Thief again, and have been having fun with some D/P and SB skills. Though it still greatly annoys me at times, I think its a matter of your outlook on Thief (if you feel good about playing Thief, you’ll have fun), and a matter of trying out the weapon sets to see what fits you.

I’ve gotten in the habit of opening with D/P #3, get a few #1 hits in, wait for them to hit (and miss), then dodge roll back, hopefully in time to evade next attack. If they’re over 50% I use #3 again, and repeat. When they get to <50 or near 25%, I dodge roll back, then Heartseeker to them.

Of course those bloody Dredge and blindness immunity mess up my world something bad. As do champions who have 10% blindess effectiveness, so I’m forced to SB.

Well, a big part of what I like about a class involves how it feels and looks. I like the way P/P looks and feels, but it’s just so horribly squishy and weak that it makes me feel like punching a puppy…while at the same time annoying me on other classes because they aren’t what I want.

pistols are generally a bad weapon for thief, especially at lower levels. They don’t know if they want to be power or condition and instead of getting the best of both worlds, they get nothing from either. No offence but you’re probably a terrible thief right now. That’s normal. Everyone sucks at thief for the first little while until they get the hang of a few thief-specific mechanics before they get to be a decent thief player.

randomfightfan.4091:

pistols are generally a bad weapon for thief, especially at lower levels. They don’t know if they want to be power or condition and instead of getting the best of both worlds, they get nothing from either. No offence but you’re probably a terrible thief right now. That’s normal. Everyone sucks at thief for the first little while until they get the hang of a few thief-specific mechanics before they get to be a decent thief player.

Which is fine, but I’m absolutely not a fan of the whole ‘x class is harder than y class by design’ paradigm. All classes should require a similar amount of skill and input to do well as.

My guardian can kill 3+ mobs upwards of 2 levels from her without much attention. My thief can barely handle 3 at the same level and then it takes a bunch of kiting, and fairly decent luck.

yeah them pistols aren’t the best, I’m a little bummed about it myself. I think anet said they were going to take a look at it, but they are generally looking at thieves in pve so hopefully they can fix someone of our problems sooner than later.

Starbird.4029:

Which is fine, but I’m absolutely not a fan of the whole ‘x class is harder than y class by design’ paradigm. All classes should require a similar amount of skill and input to do well as.

My guardian can kill 3+ mobs upwards of 2 levels from her without much attention. My thief can barely handle 3 at the same level and then it takes a bunch of kiting, and fairly decent luck.

What you’re saying is that you want every class to be the same and there to be no variation in class. If one wasn’t harder to play and they were all able to achieve the same goals while doing the same thing then what would be the point of even having classes? Thief is an engaging class that requires at least some attention when you have aggro. I’m sorry that you played a guardian before, I really am. Twice I tried to level one. First time I got it to lvl 40 something before deleting it due to how insanely boring it was. The 2nd time I got it to 50 through sheer force of will, trying to get a reflecting wall bot for grawl fractal. Deleted that one too and made an engi. So much more fun but still not as fun as a thief.

And about the whole thief having troubles doing the content that is faceroll on guard or war… well that happens in low lvl pve. The guard and war still do it at high lvls open world pve but then again so does every other class. Despite what people think, thief is amazing in dungeon and it has already been established that thieves are great in wvw too. So the problem is that you’re trying to compare thief to guardian when those 2 classes are apples and oranges. If you really need comparisons, then thief is the condition guardian. Instead of boons on you, it’s conditions on them.

If you don’t like the class though then just don’t play it. If you want the game to pretty much be handed to you and have very little challenge, then continue with the heavy classes. Problem with that though is you’re probably going to get bored of this game very soon when you’re not allowing yourself to get engaged into the combat.

Starbird.4029:

Which is fine, but I’m absolutely not a fan of the whole ‘x class is harder than y class by design’ paradigm. All classes should require a similar amount of skill and input to do well as.

My guardian can kill 3+ mobs upwards of 2 levels from her without much attention. My thief can barely handle 3 at the same level and then it takes a bunch of kiting, and fairly decent luck.

oh and on my thief, numbers really don’t matter when it’s vs mobs. Thief generally will win every time unless it’s stupid events where the champion is a damage sponge with spammable ranged attacks. There any class will have troubles.

randomfightfan.4091:

Starbird.4029:

Which is fine, but I’m absolutely not a fan of the whole ‘x class is harder than y class by design’ paradigm. All classes should require a similar amount of skill and input to do well as.

My guardian can kill 3+ mobs upwards of 2 levels from her without much attention. My thief can barely handle 3 at the same level and then it takes a bunch of kiting, and fairly decent luck.

What you’re saying is that you want every class to be the same and there to be no variation in class. If one wasn’t harder to play and they were all able to achieve the same goals while doing the same thing then what would be the point of even having classes? Thief is an engaging class that requires at least some attention when you have aggro. I’m sorry that you played a guardian before, I really am. Twice I tried to level one. First time I got it to lvl 40 something before deleting it due to how insanely boring it was. The 2nd time I got it to 50 through sheer force of will, trying to get a reflecting wall bot for grawl fractal. Deleted that one too and made an engi. So much more fun but still not as fun as a thief.

And about the whole thief having troubles doing the content that is faceroll on guard or war… well that happens in low lvl pve. The guard and war still do it at high lvls open world pve but then again so does every other class. Despite what people think, thief is amazing in dungeon and it has already been established that thieves are great in wvw too. So the problem is that you’re trying to compare thief to guardian when those 2 classes are apples and oranges. If you really need comparisons, then thief is the condition guardian. Instead of boons on you, it’s conditions on them.

If you don’t like the class though then just don’t play it. If you want the game to pretty much be handed to you and have very little challenge, then continue with the heavy classes. Problem with that though is you’re probably going to get bored of this game very soon when you’re not allowing yourself to get engaged into the combat.

Honestly, I’ve never bought into the whole WoW style “if you don’t like x aspect of the class then get out” method of thinking.

I’d rather suggest a change.

Balance 101: If one class/race/thing requires significantly more input and skill to succeed with than another, then it needs a look. Reason being that in a situation where skill and input is equal, then the other class is going to be better.

Starbird.4029:

randomfightfan.4091:

Starbird.4029:

Which is fine, but I’m absolutely not a fan of the whole ‘x class is harder than y class by design’ paradigm. All classes should require a similar amount of skill and input to do well as.

My guardian can kill 3+ mobs upwards of 2 levels from her without much attention. My thief can barely handle 3 at the same level and then it takes a bunch of kiting, and fairly decent luck.

What you’re saying is that you want every class to be the same and there to be no variation in class. If one wasn’t harder to play and they were all able to achieve the same goals while doing the same thing then what would be the point of even having classes? Thief is an engaging class that requires at least some attention when you have aggro. I’m sorry that you played a guardian before, I really am. Twice I tried to level one. First time I got it to lvl 40 something before deleting it due to how insanely boring it was. The 2nd time I got it to 50 through sheer force of will, trying to get a reflecting wall bot for grawl fractal. Deleted that one too and made an engi. So much more fun but still not as fun as a thief.

And about the whole thief having troubles doing the content that is faceroll on guard or war… well that happens in low lvl pve. The guard and war still do it at high lvls open world pve but then again so does every other class. Despite what people think, thief is amazing in dungeon and it has already been established that thieves are great in wvw too. So the problem is that you’re trying to compare thief to guardian when those 2 classes are apples and oranges. If you really need comparisons, then thief is the condition guardian. Instead of boons on you, it’s conditions on them.

If you don’t like the class though then just don’t play it. If you want the game to pretty much be handed to you and have very little challenge, then continue with the heavy classes. Problem with that though is you’re probably going to get bored of this game very soon when you’re not allowing yourself to get engaged into the combat.

Honestly, I’ve never bought into the whole WoW style “if you don’t like x aspect of the class then get out” method of thinking.

I’d rather suggest a change.

Balance 101: If one class/race/thing requires significantly more input and skill to succeed with than another, then it needs a look. Reason being that in a situation where skill and input is equal, then the other class is going to be better.

I agree with this.

Einlanzer.1627:

Starbird.4029:

randomfightfan.4091:

Starbird.4029:

Which is fine, but I’m absolutely not a fan of the whole ‘x class is harder than y class by design’ paradigm. All classes should require a similar amount of skill and input to do well as.

My guardian can kill 3+ mobs upwards of 2 levels from her without much attention. My thief can barely handle 3 at the same level and then it takes a bunch of kiting, and fairly decent luck.

What you’re saying is that you want every class to be the same and there to be no variation in class. If one wasn’t harder to play and they were all able to achieve the same goals while doing the same thing then what would be the point of even having classes? Thief is an engaging class that requires at least some attention when you have aggro. I’m sorry that you played a guardian before, I really am. Twice I tried to level one. First time I got it to lvl 40 something before deleting it due to how insanely boring it was. The 2nd time I got it to 50 through sheer force of will, trying to get a reflecting wall bot for grawl fractal. Deleted that one too and made an engi. So much more fun but still not as fun as a thief.

And about the whole thief having troubles doing the content that is faceroll on guard or war… well that happens in low lvl pve. The guard and war still do it at high lvls open world pve but then again so does every other class. Despite what people think, thief is amazing in dungeon and it has already been established that thieves are great in wvw too. So the problem is that you’re trying to compare thief to guardian when those 2 classes are apples and oranges. If you really need comparisons, then thief is the condition guardian. Instead of boons on you, it’s conditions on them.

If you don’t like the class though then just don’t play it. If you want the game to pretty much be handed to you and have very little challenge, then continue with the heavy classes. Problem with that though is you’re probably going to get bored of this game very soon when you’re not allowing yourself to get engaged into the combat.

Honestly, I’ve never bought into the whole WoW style “if you don’t like x aspect of the class then get out” method of thinking.

I’d rather suggest a change.

Balance 101: If one class/race/thing requires significantly more input and skill to succeed with than another, then it needs a look. Reason being that in a situation where skill and input is equal, then the other class is going to be better.

I agree with this.

It’s Zerg all over again. And we all know what happened there…

By the way, regarding the pistol’s #1 – we all know that it has about 0.75 seconds activation time, whereas it’s listed as 0.5 seconds. That’s ridiculous – since its a 50% error, and an outright lie to user.

But you want the real travesty? Look at the Thief’s shortbow #1 – Trick Shot. Listed as 1/4 second activation time (that’s 0.25 seconds per shot, or 4 shots per second). The real activation time? 0.95 seconds (according to wiki). That’s a 200% error in the tooltip, and its obvious by how ridiculously underpowered Trick Shot really is.

I made a bug thread, because as far as I’m concerned, a difference between listed behavior and actual behavior is a bug.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Thief-Vital-Shot-and-Trick-Shot-Cast-Time/first#post1849457

ZenonSeth.5739:

By the way, regarding the pistol’s #1 – we all know that it has about 0.75 seconds activation time, whereas it’s listed as 0.5 seconds. That’s ridiculous – since its a 50% error, and an outright lie to user.

But you want the real travesty? Look at the Thief’s shortbow #1 – Trick Shot. Listed as 1/4 second activation time (that’s 0.25 seconds per shot, or 4 shots per second). The real activation time? 0.95 seconds (according to wiki). That’s a 200% error in the tooltip, and its obvious by how ridiculously underpowered Trick Shot really is.

I made a bug thread, because as far as I’m concerned, a difference between listed behavior and actual behavior is a bug.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Thief-Vital-Shot-and-Trick-Shot-Cast-Time/first#post1849457

Yes, they’re both problems. And it isn’t isolated to the Thief either – Engineer Pistol, Warrior Longbow, and Ranger Longbow, and Elementalist Staff at the very least have the same issue, which is probably why people complain about those a lot too.

I really don’t think it’s intentional, either, despite what a lot of people say. It seems to be they just aren’t paying enough attention to how the skills are performing, JP himself said they are trying to balance through traits, you can’t be myopic like that.

ZenonSeth.5739:

By the way, regarding the pistol’s #1 – we all know that it has about 0.75 seconds activation time, whereas it’s listed as 0.5 seconds. That’s ridiculous – since its a 50% error, and an outright lie to user.

But you want the real travesty? Look at the Thief’s shortbow #1 – Trick Shot. Listed as 1/4 second activation time (that’s 0.25 seconds per shot, or 4 shots per second). The real activation time? 0.95 seconds (according to wiki). That’s a 200% error in the tooltip, and its obvious by how ridiculously underpowered Trick Shot really is.

I made a bug thread, because as far as I’m concerned, a difference between listed behavior and actual behavior is a bug.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Thief-Vital-Shot-and-Trick-Shot-Cast-Time/first#post1849457

Thats…quite insane actually. I can’t believe this hasn’t been fixed yet.