Guild Wars 2

Is there a build that makes P/P Thief not only enjoyable but viable again? Or am I just gunna have to grin and bear it and hate my Thief? Because the whole reason I was P/P Thief was because I enjoyed it and didn’t want to be the Heartseeker spamming Stealth kitten Thief. But it seems like A-Net decided that build was wrong and that the only way to play Thief is to be a Poison stacking Stealth Thief, and I don’t enjoy playing that way.

The only place P/P is viable is open world PvE, so you can pretty much just use any trait you want.

tsawr.7905:

The only place P/P is viable is open world PvE, so you can pretty much just use any trait you want.

It’s not even viable in open world PvE anymore, dude. Without the 10% damage boost from Pistol Mastery and the aoe damage and range boost from Ricochet, you might as well charge at your enemy with a pillow. At least with a pillow you can probably smother them to death before your bullets would have any effect.

Seabreeze.8437:

tsawr.7905:

The only place P/P is viable is open world PvE, so you can pretty much just use any trait you want.

It’s not even viable in open world PvE anymore, dude. Without the 10% damage boost from Pistol Mastery and the aoe damage and range boost from Ricochet, you might as well charge at your enemy with a pillow. At least with a pillow you can probably smother them to death before your bullets would have any effect.

You can get 10k+ unloads. Easy. You do more damage than before discounting the bounces by a considerable margin.

In PVE I get 12k unloads on that Champion abomination. In WvW i was getting 1400*8 on the glassier opponents.

The issue is the same as it as ever been with P/P and that surving hits. With loss to vitality it harder albeit those incoming heals are higher per shot if you trait IP.

There a 10 percent damage boost with your ankle shots. In tests i found this marginally better then using the Practiced tolerance trait for Fury. Note if you go 6/6/0/0/6 you get the bonus from lead attacks AND 10 percent off exposed weakness, +10 percent to crit damage off ferocious strikes (my base crit chance 60 percent before fury) and the 15 percent (declining) off lead attacks. When executioner kicks in, which it does after one or two unloads dmage spikes even as the bonus from lead strikes is dropping due to the INI loss.

This not very safe for 1v1 where you might want to consider a more defensive traitline. It more fragile then before but does more damage.

This in Pack Runes using assassins armor set/weapons so as to get that higher precision.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBrAL0Bag~

Use all assassins gear including weapons. Bloodlust on one off hand set. There I use SB or d/p. Trickery traited over bountiful theft due to synergy with Tricks that work well with pistol.

Heal is withdraw cleanses the 3 conditions plus one. Opens Gap and has an evade.

RFI traited as trick cleanses 3 conditions plus 1 opens gap and provides 1.5 more unloads. It a stun break.

Haste traited. Cleanses a condition and gives quickness 6 seconds base.

Next trait optional. I tend to throw in shadowstep. Stun break cleanses 3 conditions can use as gap opener twice.

Haste off flanking strikes also cleanses a condition.

Elite I use DS if facing crowds as it will hit hard or Basi venom for smaller battles. The double stun is very handy.

P/P set has sigil of strength for might stacks on unload.
Sigil of air wherein i can get 2k strikes on 2 second cooldown.

This build is PVE/WvW as I do not PvP . In WvW I use bountiful sharpening stones for the power boost and 10 percent boon duration. I use fried golden dumplings for the 20 percent boon duration and the Might on crit .

For trinkets all zerker exotic outside the Amulet which is zerker ascended. The zerker exotics all have platinum doubloons. This boosts boons 50 percent total.

By boosting boons 50 percent might off my pistol lasts 15 seconds per, might off the food 7.5 seconds per. As importantly I get a full 9 seconds on two sources of quickness. Ignoring the bug this provides 18 seconds quickness in every 48 seconds.

If wanting sustain traiting IP in place of NQ will not see much of a loss due being able to get FURY off the pack runes which will last 15 seconds due to boon duration boost.
NQ will ensure it 100 percent of the time. Ip will get some very nice heals. If using shadowstep rather then another trick , you have plenty of more Condi cleanse then we did with P/P prior to the changes.

There’s no denying it has damage potential against single targets. p/P had that going for it before the patch, not despite it.

In addition to the very similar damage spikes you’re seeing from it now, before the patch it was able to tag mobs. This is the what we are all up in arms about. When I’m out in the open world doing events, I’m not necessarily looking to see the largest possible damage spike I can do against a single target, I’m looking to be viable in group events – And that means tagging large numbers of enemies to stay competitive with the other classes that have also ranged or melee AoE along with traits that allow their attacks to pierce/bounce and hit multiple targets.

There’s no logical reason why the weapon set can’t have the damage load-out you mentioned above, which is what most of us are probably running anyways, or something very similar, and have the AoE from Ricochet as it’s always been.

jonG.8369:

There’s no denying it has damage potential against single targets. p/P had that going for it before the patch, not despite it.

In addition to the very similar damage spikes you’re seeing from it now, before the patch it was able to tag mobs. This is the what we are all up in arms about. When I’m out in the open world doing events, I’m not necessarily looking to see the largest possible damage spike I can do against a single target, I’m looking to be viable in group events – And that means tagging large numbers of enemies to stay competitive with the other classes that have also ranged or melee AoE along with traits that allow their attacks to pierce/bounce and hit multiple targets.

There’s no logical reason why the weapon set can’t have the damage load-out you mentioned above, which is what most of us are probably running anyways, or something very similar, and have the AoE from Ricochet as it’s always been.

I am not making any argument that Ricochet not missed. I am stating the claim it hits like a wet noodle is not true. I was using P/P before Ricochet and would run with it off half the time after it added.

I would point out that ALL three of the master traits in CS line work very very well with a p/p set. The extra ferocity, the 10 percent damage and cripple and the sundering strikes work beautifully in that set. Sundering strikes is great for team play as conditions put on foes by others and all other damage applied is boosted. It also makes it a certainty you get the 10 percent bonus of the minor in the DA line. I would suggest you switch to this if you wish to help a group as it has a significant impact and especially with Vulnerability adding to condition damage.

Added to this you can now trait both executioner and IP which in my estimation is a huge boost to its damage potential while not giving up heals on crit.

P/P is NOT a dead weaponset. The ability to evade or stealth is certainly limited but than that has always been the case. People asking for builds to use know there is no Ricochet and it would be illogical to ask for a build when you know the person giving an example of one can not include a build with Ricochet. If that was the OPS intent than he was trolling and I prefer to believe that he was sincere in his request for a build.

For singletarget P/P is viable, however if you want the added range that Ricochet used to provide, you’re forced into taking Ankle Shots(The added range is baked into it, even though it isn’t mentioned in the tooltip.). The weapon range by itself is a QoL issue, but the lower range isn’t even justifiable anymore, considering all the other classes have the same level of speed/mobility a thief has nowdays.

For general PvE play, no, P/P isn’t “viable”, outside of singletarget boss fights. With the removal of Ricochet, P/P lost all of its AoE capability, all of its AoE crowdcontrol functionality(Ricocheted bullets also applied/had a chance to apply secondary/on-crit effects of the ability such as daze/immobilize/vulnerability.), a large portion of its self-healing via Signet of Malice(Not viable anymore as the result of the removal of Ricochet.) and its AoE debuff(Vulnerability.) capability.

Now, with all that said; P/P is still viable, even for “AoE”. Is it even close to being competitive for AoE? No. For singletarget it’s fine, but playing it becomes a chore when you have even two targets attacking you/your group. What P/P really needs is the old ricochet mechanic back or a mechanic similar to the pierce rangers just got(With the old debuff/CC application system of secondary hits active.), so we’ll bring more to the table than a singletarget glasscannon/AoE-wet-noodle.

In response to babazhook, I know I was exaggerating about the damage part. I still do tons of damage with my load-out, but I was referring primarily to my mob DPS. Since P/P has been turned into a single-target weapon, I feel my contribution to events and mob killing has taken a significant dive, and all I needed was to play one session of Silverwastes to find that out.

I think the aoe capabilities (not to mention the range, which I hate how it’s lumped with ankle shots) that Ricochet brings to the PvE scene are too important to just simply remove it the way Anet did, with little more explanation than “It’s not there” and “too much RNG/reduced purity of pistol.”

I won’t argue that it still hits hard, babaz, but from a PvE perspective, Ricochet was above all else… fun.

Seabreeze.8437:

In response to babazhook, I know I was exaggerating about the damage part. I still do tons of damage with my load-out, but I was referring primarily to my mob DPS. Since P/P has been turned into a single-target weapon, I feel my contribution to events and mob killing has taken a significant dive, and all I needed was to play one session of Silverwastes to find that out.

I think the aoe capabilities (not to mention the range, which I hate how it’s lumped with ankle shots) that Ricochet brings to the PvE scene are too important to just simply remove it the way Anet did, with little more explanation than “It’s not there” and “too much RNG/reduced purity of pistol.”

I won’t argue that it still hits hard, babaz, but from a PvE perspective, Ricochet was above all else… fun.

Do not get me wrong. I will miss Ricochet as much as any as it added excellent utility to a weapon set that lacks in it and as stated worked very well against Mobs in PVe. I still do not understand why it removed.

Its current iteration does have upside and in particular when wants to stay out of AOE such as that being spammed by Engies and kill at range. Its single target damage against Champions in the open world is significant and that range allows a measure of safety from those one shot kills a Champion can unleash.

babazhook.6805:

Do not get me wrong. I will miss Ricochet as much as any as it added excellent utility to a weapon set that lacks in it and as stated worked very well against Mobs in PVe. I still do not understand why it removed.

Its current iteration does have upside and in particular when wants to stay out of AOE such as that being spammed by Engies and kill at range. Its single target damage against Champions in the open world is significant and that range allows a measure of safety from those one shot kills a Champion can unleash.

To add to your point, I’ve been hearing some people saying that dual pistols aren’t that bad in PvP (although I think they still wouldn’t exactly recommend it). I’m okay with that, but from a PvE perspective, I feel that the loss of Ricochet is really going to put us at a disadvantage where mobs are extremely prevalent.

I don’t like having shortbow as my only ranged AoE option when there really was nothing wrong with Ricochet.

Missing the AOE aspect of it quite a bit in PvE, PvP and WvW.