Guild Wars 2

So I was kittening around in PvE with a P/P build I made. Was dealing 7~9K unloads and I could do about 6~10 unloads before running out. It only took a few moments of dodging and using the auto attack before I could go for another round of unloads. Just gotta say I severely underestimated how powerful P/P could be in PvP. The damage was done on the Cursed Shore using full zerk gear btw.

I use them sometimes; unload can be nice with SoM. But as a main set, I am still not happy with p/p. Would be fun to be able to go “gunslinger” sometimes:)

I just enjoy how you can sit at 900 range with glass gear in dungeons and not give a flying hoot. I do WvW mostly so going P/P is just asking for someone to come and destroy your world but if you catch someone off guard you can still rip them a new one quickly.

I just believe that ANET could change the unload skill. Since when one is wielding P/P, there is no escape mechanism apart from using deception skills etc, they could at least change unload to be a something like withdraw/roll of initiative. Instead of just evading, while evading, thieves unload their bullet. Not only it will look cool, but it will solve some problem faced by P/P thieves and also some love for P/P. Just my thoughts though.

RaiKan.8760:

I just believe that ANET could change the unload skill. Since when one is wielding P/P, there is no escape mechanism apart from using deception skills etc, they could at least change unload to be a something like withdraw/roll of initiative. Instead of just evading, while evading, thieves unload their bullet. Not only it will look cool, but it will solve some problem faced by P/P thieves and also some love for P/P. Just my thoughts though.

Heheh, you have to run into his face in order to start Unload, else you roll out of range.
I lvled my thief using P/P, but @ 80, aside from a few specific encounters, the pistols just take up space in my inventory.

The problem with P/P is that its efficacy is entirely dependent on frantic Unload spamming to maintain even mediocre DPS, which is obviously not the way it should work. You end up having no utility and limited mobility because you must spend as much of your time and resources as possible spamming Unload.

The problem with P/D is that its efficacy is entirely dependent on supplemental condition damage, mostly from Caltrops. Again, because Vital Shot is too slow and Body Shot useless. Sneak Attack cannot fully compensate for that.

ANet, please get a clue and fix Vital Shot and Body Shot.

RaiKan.8760:

I just believe that ANET could change the unload skill. Since when one is wielding P/P, there is no escape mechanism apart from using deception skills etc, they could at least change unload to be a something like withdraw/roll of initiative. Instead of just evading, while evading, thieves unload their bullet. Not only it will look cool, but it will solve some problem faced by P/P thieves and also some love for P/P. Just my thoughts though.

I LOVE the idea of adding a dodge to unload. Make the unload time faster and treat it like DB. It would be an amazing way to burst/dps a target and would make you think about when to use it.

I’ve been using P/P for quite a long time now in combination with SoM, assassin’s reward and steal on crit food, and find it to have very sustained damage and great survivability (running fractals 30+ with full zerker gear). There are no real damage checks in gw2, but what sets can outdps unload spam (taking in consideration the stealth nerf)? I deal about 8k dmg every 1,75 secs with it, and am able to keep that up for quite a while, making for a dps of around 4,5k. Keep in mind that this is ranged dps, and that I can move freely while doing this. What’s the average damage that you can actually keep up on the other sets atm? Was looking for a good discussion about P/P thiefs, because I think they are kind of underrated.

I found this is a very viable way to get tons of init and keeping spamming unload.

Irapi.5937:

I’ve been using P/P for quite a long time now in combination with SoM, assassin’s reward and steal on crit food, and find it to have very sustained damage and great survivability (running fractals 30+ with full zerker gear). There are no real damage checks in gw2, but what sets can outdps unload spam (taking in consideration the stealth nerf)? I deal about 8k dmg every 1,75 secs with it, and am able to keep that up for quite a while, making for a dps of around 4,5k. Keep in mind that this is ranged dps, and that I can move freely while doing this. What’s the average damage that you can actually keep up on the other sets atm? Was looking for a good discussion about P/P thiefs, because I think they are kind of underrated.

I quite agree. But I am wondering why, for many time in dungeun runs, ppl were telling me “ues melee(D/D), more dmg”.

I love the aesthetics… but you end up bored of the set. It consist on smash your 3 key and that’s all. Auto-attack doesn’t synergize well with Zerker gear, Body Shot is a mathematical total waste of resources, headshot is too situational and most of those situations are PvP related and BP doesn’t synergize with a ranged set, at least not for 6 inititive. Unload gets all the benefits from the traits you will use for the set, so using it and only it, avoiding even wasting time on auto-attacks is the way to go.

Can be effective to some degree but… when you’ve been playing it a while it ends up being boring.

I love the aesthetics of the set and I would like to use it, but I think I’m not using it until Body Shot is changed for something I might want to use every now and then and Black Powder synergizes with the set.

Making Body Shot a spread cone (5 hits, 1 vuln per hit) where hitting with the 5 shots (which means being very close to your target) get more damage per initiative than Unload (at the cost of getting close, but dealing much less damage if you’re at 600-900 range as 1 or 2 bullets won’t make too much) might be a good solution (note that I said damage/initiative, Unload would still deal more damage but costing more initiative and with a slightly longer casting time):

- Being a multi-hit it would synergize with the same trais than Unload so you don’t specifically build for it.
- Being a close range skill with low cost gives you the option to jump into melee to maximize your damage output, and gives you a reason to use Black Powder on a P/P set.

You can still go for Unloads, it’s only that now you can choose to be safe at range or maximize your damage getting close.

This way the set is more versatile and you press some of your other keys every now and then.

As it is right now (33333333, evade, 33333) I can’t stand it.

I know it may SEEM that your doing a lot of damage because it’s what you want to believe, it’s your build you want it to be good.

But look at the numbers… D/D gets a 7k CnD and a 15k Backstab every 4 seconds, along with an auto chain that hits like a truck. P/P gets a 9k unload that takes 2.7 seconds to channel and can be used once every 3.51 seconds.

You are not doing good damage with P/P compared to D/D.

Also, body shot does more DPS then unload if the other 3 members of your party are doing more then 3000 dps.

stop talking like p/p is the only set that has only 1 big damage skill, i can’t argue with bodyshot being useless in 1v1 but headshot is great at interrupting heals (and taking into account the amount of hp that could have been healed thats more dmg than unload) and black powder is great for finishing downed dudes

vital shot needs to be fixed but we still need it for the bleed in order to trigger the +dmg trait

and stop trying to add mobility to it, get withdraw and shadowstep and thats enough, when everything else fails, shortbow your way to safety

An ideally played P/P with the best P/P build does inferior dmg to an ideally played insert melee weapon set with the best insert melee weapon set, melee will always do more dmg than P/P. P/P does decent dmg, not great. Offhand Pistol has great utility with interrupt/defiance stripping and Black Powder.

1 example is the Sword. When fighting adds, that thing cleaves and hits multiple targets for 8k each in 1 auto-attack chain + the added bonus of weakness. All that for a measly 0 init and without the consideration of an offhand.

Another example, if you stack on Subject Alpha, i doubt you’d use P/P, because you know D/D does more dmg. If you know a boss well enough, D/D is the way to go.

Each weapon set has its use during specific encounters. I love P/P and lvled with it, but aside from a couple of specialized situations (or when i am lazy), my pistols are just taking up space.

On the pvp front, when facing a P/P Unload spammer, dodge towards him and you will see how fast things go downhill. Most P/P are free kills.

Is P/P underrated? Yes, but in the sense that most ppl thinks it does bad dmg, while it does decent dmg. Thief takes a lot of practice to get good at in PvE, P/P is a good tool to start with.

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

P/P is a considerably powerful set, particularly against other ranged players. The ability to Interrupt and Blind pretty much at will should be enough for any consideration. Have smokescreen, blinding powder, and withdraw/hide in shadows and you won’t have to be as stealthy as you will pretty much block/dodge/interrupt/blind the ranged attacks for most of the fight. The P/P set demands that you maintain range, just like the shortbow, but it also demands more use of your utilities. You can add Basilisk and Skale to give you a greater edge, gear toward Precision & Toughness, and you can get a pretty decent P/P build going for 1v1.

It should also be noted that Ranged Damage < Melee Damage as it should be because you do have the range.

“On the pvp front, when facing a P/P Unload spammer, dodge towards him and you will see how fast things go downhill. Most P/P are free kills.”

I’d like to see you dodge while immobilized (you can’t) or I can just shadowstep or withdraw

I’m glad P/P has this terrible reputation in pvp, makes me feel better every time I win

The same way you withdraw, immobilize and shadowstep, a sword thief can do the same.He can keep more pressure on you than you can on him.
Of course i am speaking of 2 thieves of the same skill lvl, which in pvp is very rare. Should you face a superior player, you will lose most of the time and should you fight a lesser skilled player, you will win most of the time.

Regardless of the individual skills, P/ kitten till mediocre, but still viable.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

Then you should also know that +10% also applies to your daggers. P/P + 10% dmg is still inferior to D/D + 10% dmg.

I’ve been using P/P for quite sometime now. I’m using 20/30/0/20/0 with full valkyrie armor and trinkets with zerk weapons. My secondary is a shortbow.

I am enjoying the build immensely, particularly in higher level fractals. Yes, it does do inferior damage compared to using a melee weapon (this is also true for warrs and guards), but the advantage is being in ranged and away from most of the hard hitting skills that mobs dish out.

Mobs in higher level fractals can and will one shot you if you get to close, so even if you ARE hitting hard with a melee weapon, chances are you will either be downed most of the time or dodging out of melee range most of the time to deal significant damage.

In the long run, DPS while using D/D and DPS while using P/P, will even out.

P/P, in my opinion is a single target build, it is for this reason that my secondary is a shortbow. I use my SB when i’m faced with a lot of mobs and only switch to P/P on single target encounters.

It is also worth noting that the topic is about P/P in PVE.

Discussions about the viability of P/P in PvP is irrelevant to the topics starters inquiry.

I am also in the opinion that if your farming mobs outside dungeon instance or fractals, D/D would be faster. For dynamic events, an SB would be more effective. For soloing vets and champs, P/P would be better.

But for anything dungeon related, i prefer my P/P+SB combo.

Mobs in high fractals will pretty much 1-shot most builds. I still melee some mobs, mostly Infiltrator’s Strike and Black Powder. Got my pistols in my bags when ST situations are needed.

Edit: Yeah i know the topic is PvE. Everyone has a different play style. I like to melee bosses, but won’t go all out on bosses i don’t know. I learn bosses by using P/P not youtube, because it’s more fun :P

Bassman.9245:

stop talking like p/p is the only set that has only 1 big damage skill, i can’t argue with bodyshot being useless in 1v1 but headshot is great at interrupting heals (and taking into account the amount of hp that could have been healed thats more dmg than unload) and black powder is great for finishing downed dudes

Except the thread title says PvE, and veeeeeery few PvE opponents will use heals, and the few that will are inmune to your interrupts most of the time. In PvP it can interrupt a Heal or a very previsible attack in some situations, but that’s everything it will do for you as 4 initiative for a daze so short that it’s virtually just an interrupt is too much to use it for every big skill so you just save that 4 ini for when the big heal glowing circle appears.

Btw it doesn’t count as damage skill, it’s control or utility, there are situations where someone kills other fast enough that he can’t use his heal and it doesn’t count as +X damage for not letting him heal, so basically the set has one damaging skill.

Body Shot is not only useless in 1 vs. 1, it needs a lot of players around (like big events so no dungeons) to be mathematically better than your Unload. The problem is that in those situations, there is already 25 Vuln on your target so anyway it will be useless. This one needs a change. I think the change I proposed in a previous post would be nice, not so powerful, but nice and would allow for some diversity.

Right now P/P users use some very specific tratis that makes Unload better and maximize its multi-hit properties combined with high crits, and that’s the only way to go. Unload is nice and it’s ranged, but it isn’t as damaging as some would think when you consider the time it consumes and the damage from other sets, and makes the set boring as 90% of the time you’re using it.

The day I can use all my skills (or at least most of them) on a P/P set I will immediatly jump into it as I love the aesthetics, but right now it’s boring.

P/P is nice and all if you use it to KILL and you can kill pretty much anything.

But the problem lie when you have to fight someone who is capable of using their brain.

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

Then you should also know that +10% also applies to your daggers. P/P + 10% dmg is still inferior to D/D + 10% dmg.

That’s not really a good comparison since P/P used for the first half of the target’s HP and D/D for the last half. Unload + condition damage will do the job very well in bringing the HP down to 50%, then switch to D/D where Heartseeker shines.

You should not narrow your views into one weapon set, rather expand it that having both P/P and D/D allows us to play as if we have a D/P or P/D weapons sets also.

RaiKan.8760:

I just believe that ANET could change the unload skill. Since when one is wielding P/P, there is no escape mechanism apart from using deception skills etc, they could at least change unload to be a something like withdraw/roll of initiative. Instead of just evading, while evading, thieves unload their bullet. Not only it will look cool, but it will solve some problem faced by P/P thieves and also some love for P/P. Just my thoughts though.

Can you please not post suggestions to kitten up the only useful skill P/P has?

1. = auto, only useful as a filler and condition applying for Exposed Weakness
2. = joke skill unless you’re with a lot of people… in which case you might as well do something else
3. = somewhat useful depending on what you’re fighting/doing
4. = VERY situational and a ridiculous waste of initiative

Unload doesn’t even do enough damage with full zerker gear to be worth 5 initiative. And full zerker is the only way to go with P/P, because otherwise there’s very little reason not to go with condition spec P/D for almost the same damage while having more utility.

P/P is nice for solo WvW and overall being lazy in groups, but it has very little to offer. No utility/mobility and hardly impressive damage for something that sucks all your initiative.

Sad because it’s the only real ranged single target damage thieves have (P/D involves a lot of melee range and Shortbow is aoe/utility) and can potentially be a very fun playing style. Even more sad because it’s easy to fix the issue, arenanet just doesn’t give a kitten.

Humorless.1573:

Sad because it’s the only real ranged single target damage thieves have (P/D involves a lot of melee range and Shortbow is aoe/utility) and can potentially be a very fun playing style. Even more sad because it’s easy to fix the issue, arenanet just doesn’t give a kitten.

You don’t need that much mobility for P/P. You can Blind your opponent and Daze them constantly. Since you’re likely not running a Stealthy Build, you would have Withdraw, and most likely Smokescreen for more blinds.

In my opinion, people aren’t really seeing how P/P can be complimented with your utilities. The only real issue with P/P is Vital Shot.

Suralin.3947:

Humorless.1573:

Sad because it’s the only real ranged single target damage thieves have (P/D involves a lot of melee range and Shortbow is aoe/utility) and can potentially be a very fun playing style. Even more sad because it’s easy to fix the issue, arenanet just doesn’t give a kitten.

You don’t need that much mobility for P/P. You can Blind your opponent and Daze them constantly. Since you’re likely not running a Stealthy Build, you would have Withdraw, and most likely Smokescreen for more blinds.

In my opinion, people aren’t really seeing how P/P can be complimented with your utilities. The only real issue with P/P is Vital Shot.

You can blind and daze your opponent? And then what? Auto attack them to death? Why aren’t you using P/D?

And yes the mobility is fine… as long as you have at least 15 points into acrobatics. IE you’re forced into one single spec as Critical Strikes is mandatory and Deadly Arts is needed to do decent damage.

As for utility skills, it heavily depends on whether you’re soloing or running with a group and PvE or PvPing. In PvP you have no room for smokescreen. Shadowstep is mandatory if you don’t want to get bursted or condition’d to death. And then there’s roll for initiative, venoms, shadow refugee and signets that are all more useful than smokescreen. In PvE… well, anything works unless you’re running difficult dungeon.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

Then you should also know that +10% also applies to your daggers. P/P + 10% dmg is still inferior to D/D + 10% dmg.

That’s not really a good comparison since P/P used for the first half of the target’s HP and D/D for the last half. Unload + condition damage will do the job very well in bringing the HP down to 50%, then switch to D/D where Heartseeker shines.

You should not narrow your views into one weapon set, rather expand it that having both P/P and D/D allows us to play as if we have a D/P or P/D weapons sets also.

I carry all weapons 24/7 (3 pistols, diff sigils) switch out weapons according to the situation presented. P/D is the one i never use because i am not condition specced. I use the 25/30/0/15/0 build, since it is versatile enough to accommodate pretty much every weapon combo. I flip my traits +10% pistol dmg, dual skill crit + dmg, spam some unload when such a situation present itself, decent, not impressive.

Of all the weapon sets i use, P/P is the least used. I’d say those, who specced P/P or any weapon set only, are the narrow-minded ones. And i am not bashing P/P itself, but comparing it to other sets, it is subpar.

I reply to every one of these threads I see. P/P is awesome in PvE. I use them almost exclusively. I even use them when it’s pretty obvious I shouldn’t, just to push the limit. With signet of agility and dodge based traits, I do great, rarely die, and have quite a bit of fun. I’m asuran so I’ve worked my radiation field into my kiting, which is a great way to kill stuff. I’m currently specced 25/20/0/10/15. I almost always lead off with #1 to get the blood flowing and the 10% bonus damage for targets with a condition immediately kicks in. With spider venom, bleeds, and the radiation field, I can weaken many targets simultaneously while then burning down individual targets to clean up.

Melee may do better damage (I don’t know if it does, because I play for fun, not math problems), but squishy theives who go toe to toe in melee are just going to end up dodging around a lot to stay alive. I’ve never seen anyone do a comparison of how much damage melee actually puts out when you factor in the defensive moves necessary to stay alive. If you run around with another player who can draw aggro consistently, P/P is just pure DPS support in the style of the machine gunner on an infantry squad.

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

Then you should also know that +10% also applies to your daggers. P/P + 10% dmg is still inferior to D/D + 10% dmg.

That’s not really a good comparison since P/P used for the first half of the target’s HP and D/D for the last half. Unload + condition damage will do the job very well in bringing the HP down to 50%, then switch to D/D where Heartseeker shines.

You should not narrow your views into one weapon set, rather expand it that having both P/P and D/D allows us to play as if we have a D/P or P/D weapons sets also.

I carry all weapons 24/7 (3 pistols, diff sigils) switch out weapons according to the situation presented. P/D is the one i never use because i am not condition specced. I use the 25/30/0/15/0 build, since it is versatile enough to accommodate pretty much every weapon combo. I flip my traits +10% pistol dmg, dual skill crit + dmg, spam some unload when such a situation present itself, decent, not impressive.

Of all the weapon sets i use, P/P is the least used. I’d say those, who specced P/P or any weapon set only, are the narrow-minded ones. And i am not bashing P/P itself, but comparing it to other sets, it is subpar.

That’s the problem. P/P is not suppose to be compared to other weapon set because each set has different purpose. Using P/P on a target with <50% health is not as effective as using D/D, and using D/D on a target with >50% health is not as effective as using P/P.

You have compare weapon sets with each other, then what is the point of having multiple weapon sets? Each set has it’s own use, if you don’t compare them and use them when they are the strongest. Might as well stick to 1 weapon set.

Bunmaster.9734:

You have compare weapon sets with each other, then what is the point of having multiple weapon sets? Each set has it’s own use, if you don’t compare them and use them when they are the strongest. Might as well stick to 1 weapon set.

But you realize that you’re comparing a dagger to a 9mm pistol right? Where the dagger is more precise and deals more damage where the pistol can get lucky and kill someone.

This a game, not real life. In-game mechanics, you need to compare the available sets in order to get the best use out of them. I don’t claim P/P is worthless, just ok and more situational than the other sets we have available.

Bunmaster.9734:

This a game, not real life. In-game mechanics, you need to compare the available sets in order to get the best use out of them. I don’t claim P/P is worthless, just ok and more situational than the other sets we have available.

I was actually using a game (Black Ops) as a reference, but whatever.

I’ll just have to respect your opinion.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

Then you should also know that +10% also applies to your daggers. P/P + 10% dmg is still inferior to D/D + 10% dmg.

That’s not really a good comparison since P/P used for the first half of the target’s HP and D/D for the last half. Unload + condition damage will do the job very well in bringing the HP down to 50%, then switch to D/D where Heartseeker shines.

You should not narrow your views into one weapon set, rather expand it that having both P/P and D/D allows us to play as if we have a D/P or P/D weapons sets also.

I carry all weapons 24/7 (3 pistols, diff sigils) switch out weapons according to the situation presented. P/D is the one i never use because i am not condition specced. I use the 25/30/0/15/0 build, since it is versatile enough to accommodate pretty much every weapon combo. I flip my traits +10% pistol dmg, dual skill crit + dmg, spam some unload when such a situation present itself, decent, not impressive.

Of all the weapon sets i use, P/P is the least used. I’d say those, who specced P/P or any weapon set only, are the narrow-minded ones. And i am not bashing P/P itself, but comparing it to other sets, it is subpar.

That’s the problem. P/P is not suppose to be compared to other weapon set because each set has different purpose. Using P/P on a target with <50% health is not as effective as using D/D, and using D/D on a target with >50% health is not as effective as using P/P.

What the actual kitten just happened here.

Your not seriously trying to say that P/P does more damage then D/D when the mob is above 50% health?

Your not implying that any D/D Thief EVER uses heartseeker?

I hope your trolling cause there is no facepalm big enough…

IMO, P/P might be better than SB for the ‘ranged burst’ role, but it really feels utterly ineffective relative to it’s initiative costs.

Granted, I’m not presently aware of any math to back up that opinion, nor do I feel like running the numbers from work. LOL.

Aervius.2016:

IMO, P/P might be better than SB for the ‘ranged burst’ role, but it really feels utterly ineffective relative to it’s initiative costs.

Granted, I’m not presently aware of any math to back up that opinion, nor do I feel like running the numbers from work. LOL.

It works fine in WvW. 4 unloads for 5-6k damage each on light armor.

As long as it’s zergvzerg you can flank people and pick them off if you see them low on health or endurance. Especially because you don’t need utilities other than shadowstep to get out of CC. Means you have extra damage from pwr/prc/venom or a root. But again, that’s all this spec excels at and it’s rather sad.

Scootabuser.4915:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bunmaster.9734:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The damage from P/P is not from Unload alone. You have to couple it with condition damage also — atleast 25pts in DA. I used to run with 25/30/0/0/15, P/P and D/D build.

Then you should also know that +10% also applies to your daggers. P/P + 10% dmg is still inferior to D/D + 10% dmg.

That’s not really a good comparison since P/P used for the first half of the target’s HP and D/D for the last half. Unload + condition damage will do the job very well in bringing the HP down to 50%, then switch to D/D where Heartseeker shines.

You should not narrow your views into one weapon set, rather expand it that having both P/P and D/D allows us to play as if we have a D/P or P/D weapons sets also.

I carry all weapons 24/7 (3 pistols, diff sigils) switch out weapons according to the situation presented. P/D is the one i never use because i am not condition specced. I use the 25/30/0/15/0 build, since it is versatile enough to accommodate pretty much every weapon combo. I flip my traits +10% pistol dmg, dual skill crit + dmg, spam some unload when such a situation present itself, decent, not impressive.

Of all the weapon sets i use, P/P is the least used. I’d say those, who specced P/P or any weapon set only, are the narrow-minded ones. And i am not bashing P/P itself, but comparing it to other sets, it is subpar.

That’s the problem. P/P is not suppose to be compared to other weapon set because each set has different purpose. Using P/P on a target with <50% health is not as effective as using D/D, and using D/D on a target with >50% health is not as effective as using P/P.

What the actual kitten just happened here.

Your not seriously trying to say that P/P does more damage then D/D when the mob is above 50% health?

Your not implying that any D/D Thief EVER uses heartseeker?

I hope your trolling cause there is no facepalm big enough…

I never said “P/P does more damage then D/D when the mob is above 50% health”.

What I said was, “using D/D on a target with >50% health is not as effective as using P/P” simply because using Heartseeker on that target is just a waste of Init.

It would cost about 9 initiatives for Heartseeker (3x) to deal as much damage as one Unload for 5 initiatives to a target with >50% HP.

I am comparing the effectiveness of “Damage Per Initiative Spent” and see which set is better in that situation, thus I posted what I posted. There’s no troll here.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.3|a.1g.h1.a.1g.h2|5.1g.h8|1g.7h.1g.7h.1g.7h.1g.7h.1g.7h.1g.7h|2s.d14.2s.d14.3s.d1a.2s.d14.3s.d1a.2s.d14|0.u5ab.0.p3a.f4|39.7|59.5g.5c.5b.5w|e

Just a build I came up with.
Need to try it out some day.

Look, P/P is capable of performing adequately, but not amazingly. It is, without question, a little gimpier than the Warrior’s Rifle, which has a very similar design niche. It is also generally inferior to Thieves’ other weapon sets, although this does not mean that it is terrible or that it can’t perform exceptionally well in certain circumstances.

The problems with P/P revolve primarily around the MH Pistol skills and also affect P/D (in some respects more than they affect P/P). It is very simple to diagnose:

First and foremost is Vital Shot being too slow. The slow refire rate combined with the short bleed duration means that, untraited, it can barely maintain 5 stacks on the target. Most weapons with bleeding autoattacks can maintain 6-8 untraited. Combined with the weak direct damage, this contributes heavily to a sub-par sustained DPS, particularly with P/D, but also affects P/P more substantially than people realize. In short, Vital Shot should be doing about 20-30% more damage than it actually does, which makes both P/P and P/D weaker than they should be damage-wise.

Secondly, Body Shot is all but useless. This isn’t so much a problem for damage, because the bulk of your damage will always come from Unload and Vital Shot. However, it creates a huge utility gap that leaves you with dramatically reduced tactical options and results in you doing nothing but running around spamming #3 (or trying to find as many opps to Stealth as possible for P/D). This is something that needs to be addressed.