It’s been a while since I’ve posted on the forums but I’ve noticed a lot of P/P talk lately and it actually makes me happy to see that. Still using P/P since I’ve first started. I feel everyone’s pain with the lack of mobility etc. but I don’t have that much of a problem with my build I posted months ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Reppy-Tile-s-P-P-fun-build/first#post4273968
Only thing that hurts P/P builds are retaliations and CC. Not sure what to think about adding evade frames to unload. Seems a bit much but it would help. Unless they add “Super speed” (Like Trapper Runes and other sources) to unload to move faster on the battlefield.
Wrapthor(Thief) Hybrid S/P, P/P or Staff
Tyxenuin (Guardian) Tank M/F, H
Roamer in WvW Ehmry Bay
First, buff the scaling on the autoattack like others have suggested. The DPS (including the bleeding ) is barely on par with SB, and it has to be traited to maybe bounce. Dire P/D won’t see a buff, so it’s not much of a concern. Hybrid might but we don’t have the might stacking to really push it over the top like other Celestial classes. If they are worried about runaway damage, they could make it do extra damage on targets with vulnerability (like they did for warrior’s rifle) instead of just a straight up damage boost.
Second, get rid of unload in its current form. Rapid fire and volley work alright because they don’t affect the skills on the rest of the set. Instead, change the skill into a gap creator:
Fire a shot at point blank range (range 130, instant cast, up to 3 targets, 0.5 multiplier ). This shot destroys a boon(prioritizing stability). Evade backwards (.75 sec, distance 300, i.e dodge roll backwards ). Fire a second shot that weakens and cripples the target (3 seconds weakness and cripple, 1.5 multiplier). There should be a 0.25 second after cast as well so it’s not entirely evade frames.
I think this would allow P/P to retain cohesiveness as a power set and also be a threat to some of the boon-brawler builds running around right now. The damage portion of the skill is decently telegraphed by the dodge roll, keeping the skill from being overpowered. It also sets up nicely for headshot to be useful, and if they make the autoattack deal more damage to vulnerable foes, body shot will have its place as well as CnD in P/D hybrid.
I kind of like those ideas. I’ve long felt that something was wrong with the design of Unload, in addition to being very confident that Vital Shot is undertuned. You’re right and I’ve said it before – it’s not appropriate to have a skill that is designed only for damage in the context of the Thief’s Initiative system.
The autoattack should always fill that role – the other skills should be utilitarian.
I definitely like the idea of increasing the rate of fire on the auto-attack when the offhand is also a pistol.
As for Unload, I recommend refocusing it to improve the other skills instead of replacing them. The main activation could be replaced with Hylek Cartridge, giving you stacks of Hylek Venom that give different specific bonus conditions on each other pistol skill. Unload would then be an optional secondary activation, rapidly firing a number of shots equal to the number of stacks left, but without any additional conditions from the venomous powder.
Here, Unload can give you some burst hits, but at the cost of bonus condition application.
I definitely like the idea of increasing the rate of fire on the auto-attack when the offhand is also a pistol.
This would be a welcome buff, in my opinion, as the auto-attack seems too slow for a gunslinger loadout. Plus, most people say that one of P/P’s key weak points is its sub-par auto-attack, so I would definitely like to see some improvements to the #1 skill.
But will Anet really give auto-attack its own properties and attack speed when you have a pistol in your offhand? It’s not like they’ve ever done it to any other weapon sets…
I definitely like the idea of increasing the rate of fire on the auto-attack when the offhand is also a pistol.
This would be a welcome buff, in my opinion, as the auto-attack seems too slow for a gunslinger loadout. Plus, most people say that one of P/P’s key weak points is its sub-par auto-attack, so I would definitely like to see some improvements to the #1 skill.
But will Anet really give auto-attack its own properties and attack speed when you have a pistol in your offhand? It’s not like they’ve ever done it to any other weapon sets…
Oh well. It’d still be cool.
Everyone screams about how much it will imbalance P/D to just give the autoattack a straight buff, but I’m not really convinced it’s much of a problem. P/D gets its damage from so many sources that a modest buff to Vital Shot alone would have a much bigger impact on P/P than it would on P/D.
Still, if they’re that concerned about it, they can buff only the direct damage part of it instead of the overall rate of fire.
I definitely like the idea of increasing the rate of fire on the auto-attack when the offhand is also a pistol.
But will Anet really give auto-attack its own properties and attack speed when you have a pistol in your offhand? It’s not like they’ve ever done it to any other weapon sets…
Everyone screams about how much it will imbalance P/D to just give the autoattack a straight buff, but I’m not really convinced it’s much of a problem. P/D gets its damage from so many sources that a modest buff to Vital Shot alone would have a much bigger impact on P/P than it would on P/D.
Still, if they’re that concerned about it, they can buff only the direct damage part of it instead of the overall rate of fire.
Or, just build proper stealth into the P/P build – that’s a decent buff to the autoattack, right there. It could be a secondary activation on Black Powder, maybe: “Disperse your smoke cloud to stealth yourself for 1.5 seconds.” That’s just enough time to pop off a Sneak Attack.
As an added benefit, this would give P/P wielders a use for the stealth-related minor traits they can’t currently use, but often have to take regardless.
I definitely like the idea of increasing the rate of fire on the auto-attack when the offhand is also a pistol.
But will Anet really give auto-attack its own properties and attack speed when you have a pistol in your offhand? It’s not like they’ve ever done it to any other weapon sets…
Everyone screams about how much it will imbalance P/D to just give the autoattack a straight buff, but I’m not really convinced it’s much of a problem. P/D gets its damage from so many sources that a modest buff to Vital Shot alone would have a much bigger impact on P/P than it would on P/D.
Still, if they’re that concerned about it, they can buff only the direct damage part of it instead of the overall rate of fire.
Or, just build proper stealth into the P/P build – that’s a decent buff to the autoattack, right there. It could be a secondary activation on Black Powder, maybe: “Disperse your smoke cloud to stealth yourself for 1.5 seconds.” That’s just enough time to pop off a Sneak Attack.
As an added benefit, this would give P/P wielders a use for the stealth-related minor traits they can’t currently use, but often have to take regardless.
A long while ago when people were complaining (more) about "perma-stealth " thieves, i suggested that they change the smoke field to a dark field, and that the projectile grant stealth on successful hit (Like ranger LB 3). This would allow D/P to be affected by meld with shadows, but not to be able to stack stealth, and force them to engage the target to stealth. This would also have allowed P/P to function as a more cohesive set and have an opportunity cost similar to shortbow. Also S/P would have had access to stealth as well as an ability that was more differentiated from Pistol Whip.
The best part about that was that the dark field would have set up lifesteal combos very well with sneak attack and Unload, allowing for more sustain and damage without having to buff the autoattack.
So now that we have this profession specialization feature to speculate on, I’m hoping the thief will get some kind of “gunslinger” specialization that ramps up P/P.
Interestingly enough, lots of people think the trailer showed a thief wielding a rifle, but I’m not sure how they figure it was a thief and not just an engineer.
Anyways, here’s hoping that profession specialization will finally bring some attention to this loadout!
Redesign pistol #2 . Who the heck uses body shot on p/p anyway? Pistol #2 is very weak compared to dagger #2 and sword #2 and is what causes the imbalance in p/p under thief dual wield system. Following the design philosophy, we have dagger sets with a gap closer, sword with closer / opener, surely pistol #2 should be an opener?
My suggestion: Have pistol #2 as: remove immobilize and evade 600 distance sideways, perpendicular to a target. Why sideways? It encourages circle kiting, a common tactic with any ranged weapon. This also prevents p/p players from escaping combat with #2 and ensuring usefulness alongside p/d #3. Why 600 range? Because 600 is a common gap close distance, so soft counters exist.
The idea of the above redesign is to allow p/p to temporarily move out of melee burst range. Spamming #2 won’t save you in the long run, but it might give you the time needed for another unload or a weapon swap.
Redesign pistol #2 . Who the heck uses body shot on p/p anyway? Pistol #2 is very weak compared to dagger #2 and sword #2 and is what causes the imbalance in p/p under thief dual wield system. Following the design philosophy, we have dagger sets with a gap closer, sword with closer / opener, surely pistol #2 should be an opener?
My suggestion: Have pistol #2 as: remove immobilize and evade 600 distance sideways, perpendicular to a target. Why sideways? It encourages circle kiting, a common tactic with any ranged weapon. This also prevents p/p players from escaping combat with #2 and ensuring usefulness alongside p/d #3. Why 600 range? Because 600 is a common gap close distance, so soft counters exist.
The idea of the above redesign is to allow p/p to temporarily move out of melee burst range. Spamming #2 won’t save you in the long run, but it might give you the time needed for another unload or a weapon swap.
While it’s certainly possible that a rework of the #2 skill could improve P/P, I want to very strongly argue that it is not actually the origin of P/P’s competitive failure. That falls squarely on the shoulders of the interplay between Vital Shot and Unload.
Well, I guess it’s been confirmed that there’s only going to be ONE specialization per class, which sucks because I highly doubt the thief’s only specialization is going to help their weaker areas at all (P/P specifically). It’ll most likely be one that buffs stealth even more or something.
I could be wrong, though. I hope the specialization turns out to be a gunslinger/assassin setup since by and large the thief has stealth pretty much covered and doesn’t need any specialization in that area.
On release of HoT, there will only be one available specialization.
That said, it does not mean more will come. I’d expect to see more specializations implemented in future months after release to allow for better class/weapon/build balancing and more customization. Specializations offer a framework for more horizontal expansion, meaning they can be expanded upon almost infinitely.
