Guild Wars 2

This build is viable for anyone wanting to run on PvE or WvW. I do not play PvP so cannot speak for those players.

Some Background: I have played a thief since launch and theory crafted this build for some thief friends and one of them tried it and said it was very good, so I tried it and it is better than I expected.

Build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4ZwkZ0Y5VOVd0;9;5J-TJ;145;219A39-YFl75;9G-Gg-Ak1SN2sca-f0k1sYvZ0a63-SF6H-7PcW5V;9;9;9;7kkkkkk;9;0V5s5q

It runs 0/20/0/30/20; with p/p main and p/d.
Pretty self explanatory, you use unload for large amounts of burst, with ricochet being a very useful mobbing utility.

I personally switch to p/d when the enemy is getting close and then steal in, use the steal skill, then p/d #3 out. This should do some good damage, especially after using unload once or twice before they get to you. If they are not downed at this point, they are very close, or a guardian. Just use pistol basic attack to finish them off. If by some chance of god, or they are a very skilled player, you can wait for another weapon swap, and blow the rest of your initiative. If this doesn’t kill them, or you have not yet died, run. You will probably die. Some how they are immortal.

This does not ensure you will survive in every encounter, but if the build is played right, you should win about 65% of the time, and if you fight noobs, you will melt them with 2 unloads. Your final strike with unload hits for about 8k so it is pretty hefty damage if you get the whole chain on them.

This build is very effective, can be used for soloing majority of champs, and solo roaming in WvW/ Zerging.

Please leave any suggestions on improving the build. Always improving.

-Oscuro

i would take fury trait which gives 20% more so your base crit chance and dmg is higher.
i dont like hard to catch as its random and some times when you about to down enemy they stun you/fear and you pop up in random place. think of 1v2 fight… when u pop in the warrior hand after necro fear you….

you bit glacy and dont have much ini regen or defense utilities so your build doesnt have lots room for mistake

so i would drop the condition buff from food and take toughness or even more power

i would go for p/d and seconds set p/p with more hybrid build with 1000 condition dmg so i have more stealth with cnd and finish off with p/p

I had a bit about the disadvantages of P/P, but I passed the character limit, so you’ll just get what I played when I attempted to run P/P:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4Vw-_06-V-Fd0;9;49T-T-2;042A;1287;15NW4;2ytbUytbUG-Gg-A-6-N2sca-f0k1pYvZ0a63-SF6H-7PcW5V;9;9;9;9;9;53-6G

Trait Changes:
A trait spread that pretty much is a must for all thieves. The 10 in DA is the most flexible, but 100 power and poison on steal is pretty important. Mug also gives a bit of a heal, so if you don’t open with steal, you can use it to give a tick of health.

30 in CS is unfortunately an absolute must on any thief that isn’t attempting a condition build. Thief is balanced around you having Executioner and the stats from that line, so not having it you’re hurting yourself.

30 Acrobatics is all about init and survival… things that are extra important with your giving up mobility for P/P. Only trait I consider flexible here is “Pain Response”. If you’re not having much issue with conditions, you can swap it out for fall damage if you’re in WvW, or inertia/reward in PvE. “Hard to Catch” simply has too long a cooldown and is too random to be useful. If you are having issues with CC, load more breakers on your utility bar as they can be controlled and used just as often if not more so.

Weapon Changes:
You like P/D for the jump back. SB gives you that jump back + a mobility move + much better AoE than P/P with ricochet will ever be. In PvE you just gather everything up with auto, then shotgun spam with #2 as you kite. EZ modes any amount of trash as you can hit up to 15 targets with it (5×3 bombs). D/P is also an option as you get access to stealth from your BP field, mobility and good cheaper damage.

Utility Changes:
Heal: You will be wanting to use your heals for vigor. Vigor is a must on P/P as dodging is your key to survival. Coupled with the food you should be able to dodge whenever you need to. Add in the immobilize breaker and the signet doesn’t compare. Though signet is still fine in PvE.

Util 7: This is your swap out utility. Refuge is for your party. It is important for standing them up. Scorpion Wire for pulling off walls or Skyhammer trolling. Assassin’s when solo (SB + shadow + steal + infi is all you need for chasing). RoI when you’re boss/champion fighting for the init. Sig of Shadow for zerg running.

Util 8: Shadow Step – Most may argu sigs over this, but this move is mobility + TWO stun breakers (a MUST in wvw/pvp) + condition removal. Enough utility to be worth it. PvE where conditions/stuns are not common or zerg runs where you’re less likely to be a target you can swap out for suggestions of Util 7.

Util 9: Infiltrator’s Signet – As P/P, init gain is extremely important. Add in the fact that this is a chasing/mobility move, and this will be a perma spot on your bar.

Elite: Basilisk Venom is important for two reasons. First it’s one of the shortest cooldown elites in the game, tying nicely with Lyssa runes. Second is that it is CC that can let you land your unload. Thieve’s Guild tapped with your vuln #2 (only time I’d use #2) can also be useful and is better for PvE.

Note on Signets:
Signet of rage is a poor signet due to it’s high cooldown of kitten . It’s also not compatible with any signet that has a cooldown as ALL cooldowns are shared – so that HP on crit won’t trigger because of that rage cooldown. Until that signet is on a 10s cooldown, never touch it for any build.

Signet of Fire will give you the AoE that you want on your pistols. Ricochet is nice, but with a RNG trigger and at the cost of power, not worth it.

Note on Runes
Scholar and Orbs are both great damage and are great for PvE. However in WvW/PvP, condition removal is a must. Lyssa runes give you condition removal that you need along with more synergy of the heals that you will be quick to use.

Hope that helps you. If you want me to rant what’s broken about P/P, let me know. Short story is I’ve never lost against a P/P user, and probably never will (unless the player is vastly more skilled than I) until they fix it.

^no, 30 in cs is not a must. It feels like it if you played it for a while and I was of the same opinion till a few weeks ago. I switched to 30 trickery to test out ricochet on a S/P+P/Psetup. It’s a raw damage based build that agreeable isn’t strong in raw damage but it’s power lies in the S/P doing stunlock and P/P only when you need some distance or the enemy is trying to gain distance.

I agree on shadowstep and swapout utility. I use shadow trap instead of infiltrator’s signet. Just something I got used to after the trap patch. It’s a rather fun utility because it has so many use in different situations

I agree on the signet part

I personally run pirate runes for the bird help and might buff. You have enough condi clear with HiS and Shadowstep (and pain response in acrobatics)

I’d like to duel you once (if you’re on european servers) to exchange some ideas. One small difference with a real P/P user is that my P/P is used in the second half of combat when my enemy is almost dead, not in the first part and only switched when needed.

I haven’t played in a month and a half or so, and haven’t played thief seriously for an even longer time, but I always felt that my P/P build was best for P/P PvP DPS.

25/30/0/15/0
or
25/30/0/0/15
or
20/30/0/20/0

I did some experimentation with P/P builds similar to yours as well, focusing on initiative regeneration and unload spam to heal. They work fairly well and are fun for 1v1 but the damage was pretty lackluster. Of course I haven’t experimented with them in a long time and never really put that much effort into the tanky builds either. I just found my standard P/P builds to be more enjoyable personally.

This is a nice build if you stay in a group/party but not a good build for solo — too fragile.

I’m curious though, why do you have condition damage food buff and crystal? Wouldn’t you benefit more if you use Power buffs instead? The extra damage you deal from increase in power trumps the damage you get from condition damage since you only have around 300 condition damage.

p/p sucks, tried it, didn’t like nor it’s of any good
guardian pops reflection: you basically suicide

guardian → trollface

I haven’t re-traited in quite some time since settling into 10/30/0/0/30. Withdraw (Lyssa), Roll for Initiative, Shadowstep, SoS, and Basilisk Venom (Lyssa) provides more than enough mobility and healing. 30 in Acrobatics would just kitten you — much like 30 in SA would.

guardian pops reflection: you basically suicide

… go around the Wall, or just wait? :P

but the damage was pretty lackluster

… don’t P/P if you’re not geared/traited for sustainable high damage. Most professions in WvW should be close to downed after 2 Unloads. Tankier professions (and/or builds) should also not be able to out-heal your damage.

^no, 30 in cs is not a must.

If you don’t care for high-damage, then no, it’s not a must.

Ricochet is nice, but with a RNG trigger and at the cost of power, not worth it.

At a 50% chance, Ricochet is great. If I Unload for 10k~, that’s another 5k hitting nearby targets (clones, pets, minions, turrets, rally-ers, mobs, etc.). With crit-heal food, it also provides a steadier proc.

I’ve been so tempted to swap it out for the boon-stripping (for Guardians…), but when I try, it’s sorely missed.

DanH.5879:

p/p sucks, tried it, didn’t like nor it’s of any good

Some player just don’t match the weapon set. I can never make P/D work for me, the set just didn’t make sense to me, specially #3 skill.

guardian pops reflection: you basically suicide

That’s true in about anything. That’s what reflection does. So why single out P/P?

guardian -> trollface

More like Warrior → steamrollolcopter

I tried the previously mention of switching to mor crit instead of a small amount of condi damage, and it is better in a straight up conflict, however, when fighting with a group of two or three, the condi damage helps exponentially when people try to run from your havoc group. It is just mainly a preference in what you want. I personally do not find hitting the highest damage ever necessary as you do have enough range to stay alive, even when fighting other ranged classes, you have shadow step to bring you in range.

I’ve tried P/P with my own build and is kittening fun, but it lacks of escapes, if we face a class with short range(aka another thief, warrior,guardian) we’re pretty much kittened.
We can only rely in our evades and that’s all.

I’m so exciting for the new patch, it gives to the p/p(skill 2) an immobilize, and it could be great for unload, so basically the idea is 2,3,2,3 , add it a 10% more dmg, so it would be 20% dmg in one unload.

in conjunction with devourer venom so it gives you more immobilize and another chance to spam unload without any risks.

I think skill 2 is a useless buff to a useless skill. The initiative is too much. It essentially nerfs your DPS by reducing the amount of unloads you can do (by expending your initiative on it). There are rare occasions where you are chasing down a target the immobilize will help, but regardless in most of those cases Id prefer to keep the initiative for DPS. Its the kind of skill buff I expect to be useful maybe once every 200hours of gameplay.

As for PP, I know there are alot of critics saying its the weakest weaponset, but I stand by my claim that it is one of the better ones. My build is quite different to the one above. I do not mind it. But I prefer 0/30/30/0/10. I very rarely get beaten with it by any class.

Elxdark.9702:

I’ve tried P/P with my own build and is kittening fun, but it lacks of escapes, if we face a class with short range(aka another thief, warrior,guardian) we’re pretty much kittened.
We can only rely in our evades and that’s all.

I run with Roll for Initiative and Withdraw. Combined with shadowstep you can put up a big enough distance between you and your enemy(*enemies) to escape almost any situation. Swiftness on dodge with vigor on heal helps a lot to keep up swiftness or roll with centaur runes for perma-swiftness.

The new immobilize isn’t too amazing but its an improvement compared to what we had before at least.

Switch.4892:

Elxdark.9702:

I’ve tried P/P with my own build and is kittening fun, but it lacks of escapes, if we face a class with short range(aka another thief, warrior,guardian) we’re pretty much kittened.
We can only rely in our evades and that’s all.

I run with Roll for Initiative and Withdraw. Combined with shadowstep you can put up a big enough distance between you and your enemy(*enemies) to escape almost any situation. Swiftness on dodge with vigor on heal helps a lot to keep up swiftness or roll with centaur runes for perma-swiftness.

The new immobilize isn’t too amazing but its an improvement compared to what we had before at least.

I agree with Switch. When I ran P/P builds primarily, all of my utilities were used to make up for P/P weaknesses.

I generally ran something along these lines.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cRR;2Rwk0-J5VOkd0;9;4OT-E-29-04A;12;9;0G3G3G3G35BF

Occasionally I would run other builds, such as;

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cRR;2Rwk0-J5V-kd0;9;4JT-J-29-04A;128h

These were pre mug nerf though, not sure if mug is even worth taking in DPS builds anymore as I haven’t played thief in a while. These are generally what I found to be most effective for P/P when I played it.

Maybe I will play with some P/P builds this week, it has been a long time since I have messed around with this stuff.