Guild Wars 2

Man as soon as anet inputs a certain mobility mechanic on P/P i hopping off this D/P kitten.. Unload is too unreal. Although Vital shot should be the cookie cutter skill. I would be happy with an unload shot to the ground which would elevate us in the air, making it a blast finisher or leap.. Sort of like the engineers rocket jump.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crossfire

The pistol’s autoattack should be 0.5, currently it is 0.9ish.

All Pistol skills need a base damage increase for lack of mobility.

Pistols need a piercing trait as well as its bouncing traits fixed.

Unload needs 1-2 parts and be split into 2 damaging / utility skills like Flanking Strike did.

P/P is almost inarguably the worst set in the game because it has a single problem which is both unique and egregious. Because of how weak Vital Shot is, especially with a power build, to do decent damage with it you have to perpetually spam the utility-less #3 skill, which means every other skill in the set is virtually useless because they share a resource and trying to use any of them at any time cuts into your DPS much more massively than with any other set in the game.

As if that wasn’t bad enough, Unload also happens to severely limit your mobility, so it exacerbates the problem P/P already has with mobility and range control by making even too much moving around or dodging cut into your DPS way more than it should.

Basically, it’s only effective at all when you can stand still and stay clear of danger so you can avoid ever having to move, dodge, or use anything besides the #3 skill. In other words, it’s altogether broken, significantly more than any other weapon set for any profession in the game.

Yep, anybody I see using P/P in GW2 I think must be some batty old grandma with 12 cats playing on a commodore 64.

This one time in Band Camp a P/P thief stood on a ledge thinking to kitten me with unloads, my S/B had him dead in no time. I was like, grandma..

Why that word was changed to Kitten, I just don’t know.

Those silly grandmas. Just because you have no mobility in real life doesn’t mean can get away with that in PvP.

^^ haha – additionally, and I have never really tried P/P, black powder with Dagger or sword mainhand is pretty good but its applicability with P/P seems really strange. I suppose perhaps subsequent attacks through the field become blinds? I really do think P/P just makes the thief become a lousy engineer.

P/P is almost inarguably the worst set in the game? I guess some people never heard something like, “Wrongbow Ranger”

Siva Mira.3546:

P/P is almost inarguably the worst set in the game? I guess some people never heard something like, “Wrongbow Ranger”

At least the ranger has other ranged options.

But that doesn’t change the fact that Longbow ranger is crap. And P/P is far from being unplayable but it does need some serious help.

Siva Mira.3546:

But that doesn’t change the fact that Longbow ranger is crap. And P/P is far from being unplayable but it does need some serious help.

I would rather reroll to another class and pretend P/P doesn’t exist then try playing P/P in PvP.

I’m of the opinion unload needs something. And it should be unload, not vital shot, since it’s P/P that nets the most complaints, and unload is the focal point of that weapon set by virtue of being its dual skill.

In my opinion, they need to add some gimmick to it (Evasion? Vigor or swiftness as you’re channeling? 6 shots but 100% combo finisher?) since right now it’s only about the damage, and that obviously just isn’t enough to keep the set interesting to play.

Softspoken.2410:

I’m of the opinion unload needs something. And it should be unload, not vital shot, since it’s P/P that nets the most complaints, and unload is the focal point of that weapon set by virtue of being its dual skill.

In my opinion, they need to add some gimmick to it (Evasion? Vigor or swiftness as you’re channeling? 6 shots but 100% combo finisher?) since right now it’s only about the damage, and that obviously just isn’t enough to keep the set interesting to play.

I’d go for the swiftness myself. Make Unload an more effective kiting skill.

Personally, I’d love to see them make Unload NOT cancel if you dodge mid-animation. Oh, I can see it now… P/P and P/P, traited into acrobatics and trickery… probably a 0/30/0/20/20 set with tons of vigor and Sigils of Energy xD

Edit: I would have to make a character named Neo The Matrix Ninja

Siva Mira.3546:

P/P is almost inarguably the worst set in the game? I guess some people never heard something like, “Wrongbow Ranger”

Long Range Shot is much, much weaker than it should be which gimps the Longbow pretty dramtically. This is also true of P/P, but at least the Longbow has 4 other skills that it can use and some decent AoE. P/P has 0 other usable skills, 0 utility, crap mobility, and shorter range.

I’ve always said that what P/P really needs is a rework to Body Shot that is perfectly viable over Unload in specific situations and builds and that also synergizes with Black Powder (be it in combo form, or by being effective at close range so you ise BP to cover the assault loke with melee sets).

Once that’s done the set will be more versatile instead of 33333 with no space for utility.

My favorite ideas as I’ve said other times would be to make Body Shot a spread attack x5 with 1vuln per hit (there are precedents of similar skills with only 6 seconds cooldown which is a great equivalent for 3 ini when you compare ini costs to cooldowns on similar skills) that at very close range (nearly melee so all projectiles will hit) does better damage/initiative than unload (unload would still have better total damage, but BS casting time is shorter so going melee increases your damage over time in comparison) at the cost of exposing yourself to melee range (so you invest initiative on Black Powder to cover you), or change it for a combo (my idea is a melee range push without interrupt that counts as either blast finisher in your position or as leap finisher with a jump back, and as you only push targets on melee range you can’t abuse it to control an opponent movement at range) so P/P can be built for zerkers and carrions like D/D. This last one if my favorite one as I like condition builds on the Thief and it would synergize with the main attack which in zerker gear is weak.

As opposed to what others said, I think Unload wouldn’t need big changes with something like that. IMO the best adition to make it worth the 5 initiative would be a 0, 5 seconds Weakness per bullet and leave the damage and movility as it is right now. This way it has defensive utiliyy and you are protecting your team if you keep shooting while also reducting opponent evades (what really kills unload).

Maybe it just needs to scale better with power? Vital Shot does awful damage as non cond and is only moderately useful on condition build. They could also make condition less dull by making Body Shot burn and/or bleed enemy, since they mentioned in interview they wanted to give us Burn condition eventually.

And Ricochet trait should be buffed to hit more targets multiple times and require gold coins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e_Z0ECHC5oI#t=36s

I leveled my thief from 10-80 in WvW and the whole time I was P/P, shortbow. As a 1-on-1 set-up, it’s hard to beat, but it’s lack of AoE is what I disliked the most.

Siva Mira.3546:

But that doesn’t change the fact that Longbow ranger is crap. And P/P is far from being unplayable but it does need some serious help.

Not true, some of us play LB in a bunker build!

Lokheit.7943:

I’ve always said that what P/P really needs is a rework to Body Shot that is perfectly viable over Unload in specific situations and builds and that also synergizes with Black Powder (be it in combo form, or by being effective at close range so you ise BP to cover the assault loke with melee sets).

Sorry, but this is objectively wrong. Not that your idea is a bad one necessarily, just the argument that Body Shot is ‘the problem’. While it may not be amazing, it is not the core issue screwing up P/P. The problem, instead, is actually a design issue centering on Vital Shot and Unload.

Currently you have two major problems intersecting one another:

a.) Unload behaves your standard primary damage attack, therefore Vital Shot is mostly useless and Unload has no utility and bad mobility for a primary attack.

b.)Unload shares a resource with Body Shot, Head Shot, and Black Powder. Therefore, all three of those skills are mostly useless, not because they themselves are bad, but because trying to use them in this set eats into your DPS way too much by siphoning your Initiative away from Unload.

In a nutshell, what you’re left with is:

A gimpy autoattack that serves little purpose to have at all, a dual-skill that is wasted by having to stand in for the autoattack as your bread-and-butter skill while having no utility and worse mobility than other primary attack skills, and #2, #4, #5 skills that, while decent in and of themselves, are totally useless because they share a resource with your main damage skill. This means that using any of them ever instantly results in your DPS being cratered way more than on any other set in the game.

What needs to happen, therefore, is that Vital Shot needs to receive a significant buff so it can properly act as your main attack, then Unload should be redesigned into more a supplemental specialty skill (like a cone AoE with slightly less single-target DPS). That would allow you flexibility to use your Initiative on a variety of things as the situation calls for.

Not sure if any of you have even played p/p for a couple of days.. and if u r running GC on it then just go over to ranger or engi section. Use your mobility more than stealth

Einlanzer.1627:

Lokheit.7943:

I’ve always said that what P/P really needs is a rework to Body Shot that is perfectly viable over Unload in specific situations and builds and that also synergizes with Black Powder (be it in combo form, or by being effective at close range so you ise BP to cover the assault loke with melee sets).

Sorry, but this is objectively wrong. Not that your idea is a bad one necessarily, just the argument that Body Shot is ‘the problem’. While it may not be amazing, it is not the core issue screwing up P/P. The problem, instead, is actually a design issue centering on Vital Shot and Unload.

The explanation for what I said is that one of the big problems with P/P is that is 333333333 with zero utility and versatility and the very very ocasinal #4 to interrupt a glowing healing target. By making #2 usable AND synergize with #5 suddenly you’re extended the versatility of the set as now you can go either 3 spam, 2 with 5 or a healthy combination of both depending on the situation and still having that situational 4 for important interrupts. You will be able to spend initiative in any skill instead of 333333.

You’re right that Vital Shot synergizes poorly with the main source of damage. The problem here is the day where Stealth Attacks were added (just for the sake of not having Backstab on the main weapon bar). I really hated that day as I knew most builds would NEED stealth to focus on those stealth attack when stealth was supposed to be more suplementary instead of a NEED (the main problem with WvW stealth traps is not that you can’t defend, it’s that you waste your whole build). Because those stealth attacks and pistol receiving a multibleed, the main attack that used to be Body Shot (which as auto-attack with 1 vuln per hit synergized with Unload) was changed to Vital Shot to apply Bleed to have synergy on P/D builds.

Right now because everything was designed with those Stealth Attacks in mind, Vital Shot synergizes with one set, and acts as scale cap with the other (like the main attack on rifle for Warriors do). So we’re really not getting rid of it unless a revamp is done and stealth attacks disappear (a silly concept IMO as stealth is not a Thief exclusive mechanic, and still others don’t have stealth attacks and it forces 80% of competitive buils around them).

This is why IMO the best thing is to make Body Shot viable and synergize with BP so you want to use everything.

As I said something simple as adding short Weakness to Unload would be more than enough for it and it would have ton of utility for group play (Weakness is very underrated and protects everyone a huge load), no need of big changes or making it a cone attack.