Guild Wars 2

Hello, I`m returning to GW2 after a couple of months. I`v quit after the Karka event thingy. My main was a necro and my second toon an engineer.

I`d like to give gw2 another try, and I was thinking I would like to try a P/P thief. Checking Youtube I only found 2 videos, none very recent.

So I`ll bother you guys with a couple of questions:
- is P/P a decent PvE setup(don`t want to be a handicap for the party – I uderstant there are a new dungeon set-fractals)? If yes, what king of build/gear should one use? Power/crit?
- is P/P a decent enough WvWvW option?

I`m no elitist, and I don`t want to be top tier whatever. But I`d rather not start a thief and and find out that p/p is poo.

Thank you for your time.

P/P is one of the weaker sets for Thief. In terms of ranged options, SB is used as a utility/AoE weapon to compliment the usual D/X and S/X. I leveled with D/P which is pretty easy to do. I feel P/P will have some uses in dungeons where it’s just DPS them away (so you could use #3 skill) but there are other, often better options.

In WvW you don’t really see any P/P as SB is much better for mobility, and in PvP you see it here and there but it tends to be #3 spam as far as I’ve seen.

Angus.7460:

P/P will have some uses in dungeons where it’s just DPS them away (so you could use #3 skill) but there are other, often better options.

sad to hear it. I`ll read more for now..

With P/P you need to build the thief so that it can regain initiative quickly. And your mobility would come from your utilities, not exactly the thief weaponset (ie, Withdraw, RoI). I’ve seen P/P thieves roflface players in 1v1, which it can do well if you know how to use blinds, headshots, and unload. The issue is when the thief has to deal with more than one unit such as phantasm/shatter mesmers and minion necros.

I personally enjoy using P/P build with 2 rolls and lots of initiative. With that you can unload up to 5 times and finish with HS but main challenges is to pick targets carefully so you do not miss unload and try to always have some ini left in case things go south. I’d say its challenging build and not really for beginners

cool, thx edgas
I`ll have some practice in the mists on robots

I play a P/P thief as my main with SB as secondary weapon, and it’s nearly impossible to die, unless you’re grossly outnumbered (in WvW) or haven’t traited for enough initiative and stamina regen. If your DPS is high enough, you’ll find that you can down another Thief in WvW with just one Unload. You may not like playing this build because of lack of stealth, but I think the constant ranged damage makes up for it. Also, get used to swapping weapon set a lot. It can make a huge difference if you know when to bring out your shortbow, as skill 3 gives you a few extra evades and Cluster Bomb does great AOE.

For gear, I use a mix of Berserker and Cavalier (power/tough/crit damage). I’ve also traited for might on dodge to give an extra damage boost.

I play shortbow-pistol/pistol in WvW. I use mainly Rampager gear with bit of Knight gear, and my build is focused on precision, mobility, and health generation.

Pistol/pistol is not really that amazing at burst, compared to dagger builds, but it does fairly well if you add some condition damage on top, which rampager gear will also give you. A lot of people only think Unload when it comes to pistol/pistol, but the set actually has some good utility as well. Sneak Attack, is obviously good when coming out of stealth. Body Shot, is great is small groups, as you quickly can stack 20 vulnerability, while your allies provide most of the damage (think camp mobs and lords). And together with a longbow Ranger, you can pretty easily have a constant 25 stack. Unload, speaks for itself; this will be your main burst skill. Headshot, is one of the most underrated Thief skills. I always try to save 4 initiative for it, as it’s perfect for interrupting your foe’s healing skill (especially on Guardians and Elementalists), which usually means your foe is dead 2 seconds later. Black Powder, is perfect once your opponent is downed, as it prevents all damage and some interrupts, but is also good to use against dagger Thieves.

Skills and traits that are worth considering with pistol/pistol: Roll for Initiative, allows you to use up all your initial initiative on Unload, and also makes sure you keep distance to your foe. Signet of Malice, works very well with pistol/pistol, because of Unload and Sneak Attack (it also works very well with Dagger Storm). Opportunist, gives you a 20% chance to restore one initiative on critical hits. Kleptomaniac, gives you 3 initiative on stealing. Preparedness, increases your maximum initiative by 3.

Edit: Forgot to mention that it’s very fun to use pistol/pistol in PvP, because the weapon set is a bit rare, so you get some fun reactions sometimes. Players don’t really know how to counter, so the initial reaction is usually to run away, and then try to anticipate your next move. All without attacking you. Which is totally opposite to dagger thieves, who gets attacked instantly once they are spotted.

Hello guys
first I`d like to thank Kasama for the explenation.
I`d also like go know if there are any updates / future patches / skill/trait tweaks that will benefit a P/P thief.
My interests are WvW mainly (werg / small group, not solo: so P/P + SB) and a bit of PvE (dungeons and guild missions).

Thank you for your time.

P/P works well in small groups and zergs for single target damage in WvW.

I run this build and play with 25 stacks of bloodlust for most of the night.

http://bit.ly/10YnDqQ

Basically run around spamming Unloads and dodges until they die.

If you get in trouble either Hide in the Shadows, Blinding Powder, Shadow Step or Shadow Refuge (or a combination of them).

I also use Blinding Powder and Heal in the Shadows aggressively to allow time for ini regen and healing – then use Sneak Attack to re-engage just before the stealth expires.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

P/P works well in small groups and zergs for single target damage in WvW.

I run this build and play with 25 stacks of bloodlust for most of the night.

http://bit.ly/10YnDqQ

Basically run around spamming Unloads and dodges until they die.

If you get in trouble either Hide in the Shadows, Blinding Powder, Shadow Step or Shadow Refuge (or a combination of them).

I also use Blinding Powder and Heal in the Shadows aggressively to allow time for ini regen and healing – then use Sneak Attack to re-engage just before the stealth expires.

With your setup you lose 30% dmg to targets below 50%HP which is HUGE !!!!
Sure 2initiative all 10 sec is nice, but losing 30% dmg is just not worth it !

I would go as far to say p/p is really good in wvw in small groups. Mostly because a large portion of the wvw player base seems to have no idea what a dodge is. And that to me is the only problem with unload, it cost a bunch and is a long strung out attack, easy countered, and messed a lot in large group simply because your target stepped behind someone else.

BUT the damage on it can be huge. Maybe it is just because there aren’t many out there, so people dont see it coming. but I usually switch to p/p when I get them to around 50% health for a ‘surprise’ and unless they are the tankiest build 1-2 unloads is usually more then enough to kill them.

Hi rogerwilko,

There is not a lot I can add to what others have already put, but here are my thoughts on the PP set.

Mostly I run DP/SB, but on occasion I will swap one set for PP. However, unlike the others above I tend not to use it for damage, though it can deal good damage, but I tend to use it mostly for control. When with a group of allies I will focus on locking down our target with Headshot, putting Black powder down on allies being attacked by melee and stacking vulnerability when spiking. To me PP is an excellent control set, but also has the benifit of being a decent single target damage set.

However, it does lack mobility, so I always carry either dagger mainhand (for Heartseeker) or shortbow on my other set for when I need to move fast.

rogerwilko.6895:

Hello guys
first I`d like to thank Kasama for the explenation.
I`d also like go know if there are any updates / future patches / skill/trait tweaks that will benefit a P/P thief.
My interests are WvW mainly (werg / small group, not solo: so P/P + SB) and a bit of PvE (dungeons and guild missions).

Thank you for your time.

At one point, ArenaNet shortly talked about increasing the damage of the Thief’s weapons. But whether or not that’s going to happen, we’ll have to see. Pistol/pistol desperately needs a initiative decrease as well, though. Just compare Unload to Flanking Strike, and it’s easy to see. Both sets deal about the same damage, but Flanking Strike costs 2 initiative less, and also removes two boons. Hell, even using two large explosion Cluster Bombs deals more damage then Unload, and will only cost you 6 initiative. That pretty much says it all..

I play shortbow as main now, and then use pistol/pistol as a utility set. I found out that stacking Choking Gas and Cluster Bomb (large explosion) in close range, deals a lot more burst damage then using Unload and Vital Shot. And that pistol/pistol works a lot better as a utility weapon set. So if I need a quick burst attack to finish of a foe (Unload), an interrupt to channel a healing skill (Head Shot), or a blind when stomping a foe (Black Powder), I use pistol/pistol.

I would love to use pistol/pistol as a main weapon set, but it just costs too much initiative to use.

Very nice replies, thank you!

lvis.3824:

With your setup you lose 30% dmg to targets below 50%HP which is HUGE !!!!
Sure 2initiative all 10 sec is nice, but losing 30% dmg is just not worth it !

Matter of opinion, I value survival more than damage in WvW when running with my group. If I ran solo I would go full glass cannon.

It’s not really 30% though unless I pick on someone that is already on half health.

Assuming they are full health when I start – I get the 10% bonus when ini > 6. As I use more unloads I drop below 6 remaining ini and lose the 10% bonus. After I get them to <50% then the 20% bonus kicks in but I am still below 6 ini so I don’t have 30% bonus.

The 2 in 10 trait is more for when I am using dagger/pistol rather than trying to get more unloads. It’s a hybrid build that supports both weapon sets.

Either way, this is more of a ranged attrition/utility build rather than an instant kill build. I often run as a scout for the commander in our guild.

I am still getting 5-8k damage per unload so I’ll kill most players fairly easily.

I was actually planning to get rid of rejuvenation and take executioner. I really don’t want to give up quick recovery. I also will try to switch to Infiltrator’s Signet instead of Blinding Powder. I’m not saying this build is perfect – everything is about compromise. If I give up rejuvenation I lose the healing and might stacking. If I give up quick recovery I give up an extra dodge (huge impact to survivability!) and i lose ini regen which means I may not have enough ini to re-stealth when I am in trouble. If I give up executioner I lose damage bonuses. It really depends on what you value…

i tried p/p a bit, but it really does involve a lot of 3 spamming, which was boring for me. If you like the ranged approach, try p/d, which is a bit more viable (as a condition build). it also has more interesting game play. still not the best weapon for pve or pvp/wvw, but if ranging and kiting is what you want, it’s a good option.

as others mentioned, there’s also the shortbow, which is great for aoe dmg.

bobross.5034:

i tried p/p a bit, but it really does involve a lot of 3 spamming, which was boring for me. If you like the ranged approach, try p/d, which is a bit more viable (as a condition build). it also has more interesting game play. still not the best weapon for pve or pvp/wvw, but if ranging and kiting is what you want, it’s a good option.

as others mentioned, there’s also the shortbow, which is great for aoe dmg.

p/d is not really ranged though, it is a hybrid – you have to get in melee range for CnD to access your damaging attack. In WvW there are sometimes so many AoE’s that getting in melee range may be undesirable. Shortbow and p/p are the only true ranged options. p/d doesn’t have significantly more variety either – it is 5-1-5-1-5-1. p/d requires more skill than p/p though. I’d argue that p/p offers more utility/variety than p/d because 2, 3 and 4 on p/d are pretty lame – so it is 5-1-5-1-5-1. Whereas 3, 4 and 5 on p/p are pretty good. I’d say the on demand interrupt and blinds makes you more valuable for a small team/zerg like the OP wants. If he is going to zerg though I’d say shortbow is better than p/p.

^fair enough…though when I play p/d (mainly in pve) I use 3 defensively as well, which makes for more interesting play…not sure how much this hurts my dps.

rogerwilko.6895:

- is P/P a decent PvE setup(don`t want to be a handicap for the party – I uderstant there are a new dungeon set-fractals)? If yes, what king of build/gear should one use? Power/crit?

Yes. In fact, P/P is a must in Fractals instead of Shortbow. Reason being is that it is the only weapon set we have that is single target ranged. Shortbow is dangerous in most fight especially with Dredge due to the bouncing projectiles and AoEs.

Mainly you would want to build Power+crit damage but it’s best if you can balance dps and survivability. With a good enough team composition, you can even go Glass cannon if you want for maximum damage.

- is P/P a decent enough WvWvW option?

WvW is a gear rush — get to level 80 with exotic armor as soon as possible. Even if the game up-level you to 80 you’ll still be a fodder and an easy target for bad players.

P/P can’t do much in WvW due to the large scale group composition and the short range of Pistols. Your best weapon set here is Shortbow for better range and AoE damage.

In PvE P/P is a good choice as the ‘swap to’ set for when you have to go ranged.

In PvE, you have to go ranged when you not only need to get out of melee, but also likely need mobility to avoid effects and kite a train of bad stuff. Shortbow has too many AoE targeting effects for this (if you -ever- have to get out melee to begin with, you stand a higher chance of not being as good at dropping AoE effects behind yourself in the right spot while circle strafing).

Pistol / Pistol is all direct single target – so you can keep blasting away while ‘getting out of the bad situation’ and waiting to get back into melee.

Everyone seems to say its bad for PvP and WvW. I don’t do either of these enough to say.

I run Sword / Pistol and Pistol / Pistol – AoE melee with the 3 skill, and a good ‘get out of town’ weapon swap. Sword / Pistol is about evasion, blind, stun rather than stealth – so my build is already low stealth. Pistol / Pistol is stealth poor… so they match well enough.

A common concern with Pistol / Pistol is poor synergy. I somewhat agree – most of the skills have too high initiative for what they do. #3 is burst, but #1 is condition – so your build has to pick between them. #2, #4, and #5 are also condition – so you would think the choice is to just not use #3. But #3 has two traits built for it, and is so much easier to spam than the other choices for a decent hit… and the #4 is useless on many bosses, while the #5 only has duration boosted by condition boosting, but expires on enemy next attack.

Pistol / Dagger might be better (I don’t know), but Pistol / Pistol is -good enough- in PvE and a lot more engaging to play. Plus the real problem with Pistol Thieves is in the 1-3 skills…

Kasama… you are like my twin.

Only thing i can add is: for me personally I find it easier to view the fight with having P/P and SB. But yeah, right now P/P is a confused weaponset with the auto attack dealing conditions and Unload being direct damage. I’m patiently waiting for a rework of the set, but still very much enjoy it.

I usually have P/P offhand for Powder stomps and ranged unloads… plus a spare set of guns with bloodlust on them to get 25 stacks fast.