Guild Wars 2

More fluid and realistic looking animations (better/faster more fluid to compliment the thief style of gameplay, and fix the speed of pistol’s 1.)

Pistol Mainhand should have 1/2/3 attacks like other weapons, no excuses.
1: Attack twice. (Damage.) – Damage is good.
2: Attack twice and 2s Cripple. (Utility.) – Cripples are nice.
3: Leap away and Attack. (Mobility.) – Just because.

Body Shot needs a second effect or far more damage, its just too little.
Attack + Vulnerability + Boon Punishment: Protection. – Bang!

Unload needs to pierce targets like beam attacks will do soon, it is a string of bullets.
Attack, Pierces targets and hits multiple targets, does more damage. – Why not?

Headshot needs to cause confusion instead of doing damage, no excuses.
3 Stacks of Confusion + Daze. – You knew this was coming…

Black Powder should look like the thief is actually shooting the ground to create the effect.
High AOE Damage + 240 Radius Combo field. – Come on, it costs 6 initiative!

Now you have a really fun and new play-style! :>

I haven’t played another class for real, but I do not believe having an auto-attack that features a leap away is a good idea. You thought Heartseeker and Leaping Death Blossom had its “gravity is a harsh mistress” moments?

Body Shot needs a certain I don’t know what. The only time I use it is when I’m with a party and we’re working something down with focus fire. Actually, that’s a decent time to use it.

I think it would be counterproductive to have anything combine Dazed and Confused. One does damage when you use a skill, and the other doesn’t let you use a skill.

I’m not sure if this is a serious post or not, by the original poster or myself.

What P/P Wants:
- Cool Animations – Fixed Animations. (Not slow ones.)
- More damage. (Probably fixed animations.)
- More Mobility (No Stealth.)

Vital Shot = Fire about 20% Faster (fix the animation bug, it’s breaking LB also)
Body Shot = More effective or something totally different
Unload = Slightly increased damage (10%)
Ricochet = baseline at 20%, traited for 50%

That would fix a lot of both P/P and P/D’s problems.

Yes, and let’s also be able to upgrade turrets by hitting them with our wrench.
No, I’m serious.

Oxstar.7643:

Yes, and let’s also be able to upgrade turrets by hitting them with our wrench.
No, I’m serious.

You say that, but Engineers sure as hell aren’t Gunslingers. Have you looked at their pistol/rifle skills? It’s all glue and poison and lightning.

I don’t like the suggestion of adding a “leap back” portion to an auto attack chain (especially on a ranged weapon.) The problem I see with that is having your auto attack make you leap off an edge when you really really REALLY don’t want to be doing that (think of the harpy jump puzzle portion of one of the Fractal dungeons… shooting the harpy with pistol to make the next few jumps safe would mean jumping to your death on your third auto attack shot.)

Body Shot’s entire purpose is to be a 100% combo finisher on pistol main hand. They could try things like making it pierce or be AoE somehow I guess? I mostly just wish it was cheaper, somehow. But 2 initiative is probably too cheap, so.

While I like the idea of more fluid animations, I can’t fault the ones there now. I think you’re right in that black powder could probably use something a bit more special though.

I… Don’t see any reason to add confusion to head shot than “I wanted to throw more even MORE damage and control into this weapon”.

I agree that something more interesting could be done, but I also don’t think a leap away is good on an auto-attack. If I’m training someone to death with bleed spam, I certainly don’t want to keep leaping out of range of my target.

I love the idea of P/P and hope it becomes a bit more competitive soon!

Maybe instead of a leap shoot 3 shots in rapid sucsession.
Hell even the Engi’s auto attack is faster then ours.

Don’t ever put a movement skill in an auto-attack chain.
Specifically, a gap-opener on a medium/short ranged weapon set.
The rear leap could put your attack out of range if your target is moving away from you.

Daecollo, how about this as an alternative:

1. - Vital Shot (1/4s animation)
2. - Body Shot – 450 range rear directional leap (like disabling shot on SB), make this skill a Leap Finisher (P/P doesn’t need another Projectile Finisher, after all.)
3. - Unload – Each shot has a base 20% chance to bounce to a nearby target. 1 bounce. (50% Chance with Ricochet)
4. - Headshot – In addition this skill should apply 1x Confusion (3s) in a small AoE (130) around the target. (Thematically explained as “You just watched someone get shot in the face. You’re a tad shook up.”)
5. - Black Powder – Add the Leap Finisher to Body Shot and this doesn’t need a single change. P/P needs access to Stealth. Granted, make it as expensive as the Dagger Pistol build. 9 Initiative.

I agree, P/P should be made more fun and interesting, today its just a boring ok-ish ranged damage, spamming the same “3” over and over. And especially the auto-attack should be improved (no movement skill in it though), and at the very least you should use both pistols. Its a dual wield after all.

Aervius.2016:

Don’t ever put a movement skill in an auto-attack chain.
Specifically, a gap-opener on a medium/short ranged weapon set.
The rear leap could put your attack out of range if your target is moving away from you.

Daecollo, how about this as an alternative:

1. - Vital Shot (1/4s animation)
2. - Body Shot – 450 range rear directional leap (like disabling shot on SB), make this skill a Leap Finisher (P/P doesn’t need another Projectile Finisher, after all.)
3. - Unload – Each shot has a base 20% chance to bounce to a nearby target. 1 bounce. (50% Chance with Ricochet)
4. - Headshot – In addition this skill should apply 1x Confusion (3s) in a small AoE (130) around the target. (Thematically explained as “You just watched someone get shot in the face. You’re a tad shook up.”)
5. - Black Powder – Add the Leap Finisher to Body Shot and this doesn’t need a single change. P/P needs access to Stealth. Granted, make it as expensive as the Dagger Pistol build. 9 Initiative.

We don’t need two P/Ds.

What would be good is:
Make Unload grant swiftness.
Bodyshot strip defensive boons maybe?

I think Headshot applying confusion is a great idea, but not an AoE. Maybe the daze with a 5sec 1x stack of confusion, under the premise of “I just got shot in the head, and it rattled my brain through the helm.” Headshot is far too expensive for a short daze, and it certainly wouldn’t promote spamming this skill… It just needs a little extra umph to it, and thief has no access to confusion as it is, when you’d think they would be a prime candidate for it…

Hell, forums are full of mouth-breathers with 8x stacks of confusion critting every time they post a QQ about stealth.

Dual.8953:

Aervius.2016:

Don’t ever put a movement skill in an auto-attack chain.
Specifically, a gap-opener on a medium/short ranged weapon set.
The rear leap could put your attack out of range if your target is moving away from you.

Daecollo, how about this as an alternative:

1. - Vital Shot (1/4s animation)
2. - Body Shot – 450 range rear directional leap (like disabling shot on SB), make this skill a Leap Finisher (P/P doesn’t need another Projectile Finisher, after all.)
3. - Unload – Each shot has a base 20% chance to bounce to a nearby target. 1 bounce. (50% Chance with Ricochet)
4. - Headshot – In addition this skill should apply 1x Confusion (3s) in a small AoE (130) around the target. (Thematically explained as “You just watched someone get shot in the face. You’re a tad shook up.”)
5. - Black Powder – Add the Leap Finisher to Body Shot and this doesn’t need a single change. P/P needs access to Stealth. Granted, make it as expensive as the Dagger Pistol build. 9 Initiative.

We don’t need two P/Ds.

What would be good is:
Make Unload grant swiftness.
Bodyshot strip defensive boons maybe?

Oooh, that’s a good one. Boon stripping on Body Shot would be awesome.

Grimwolf.7163:

Dual.8953:

Bodyshot strip defensive boons maybe?

Oooh, that’s a good one. Boon stripping on Body Shot would be awesome.

Ranged spammable boonstrip sounds just a tad OP to me… :\

Softspoken.2410:

Body Shot’s entire purpose is to be a 100% combo finisher on pistol main hand.

ZOMG, I can’t believe I forgot about that. Give me a fire field please! Pew Burny!

Daecollo is quite famous for making threads in class sections suggesting terribly OP changes.
No wonder that you guys find them OP

Yeah, pretty much everything is a tad OP with the exception of Confusion on headshot, although 3 stacks is kinda silly.

I think he wants El Mariachi, Antonio Banderas’ character, from Desperado.

Which would be kinda cool in its own way, of course.

When you suggest ideas you have to suggest something really powerful and OP, then listen to suggestions and edit it as it goes.

You can’t just start with something boring + uninteresting.

DESPERADO FTW!

Ill take Equilibrium the movie with Christian bale over Desperado any day

I made a thread just before this one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/A-Change-I-d-make-to-Pistol-MH/first#post1674251

Suggesting a short back teleport and acting as a leap finisher, in place of Body Shot. Like a ‘back hearseeker’ so to say for pistol MH (a short teleport instead of an actual leap like Phase Retreat but with a cast time) which would gain stealth through Balck Powder.

But thanks to one of the suggestions, I think I came with something even better:

“If Body Shot was made a blast finisher, it would make Pistol/Pistol and Pistol/Dagger thieves great backline supporters with their blast spaming on Ranger and Ele Watter fields, guardian light fields for some retal, and so on (don’t forget low CD on demand group stealth!!). They would become great at support all of a sudden. It would mimick cluster bomb but you’ll be applying some vulnerability at the same time, maybe even AoE with the Ricochet trait.
Let’s call it Charged Shot. You fire a high powered pistol shot the applies vulnerability to your foes. 3i. ½ cast time. 5 stacks of vulnerability. Combo Finisher: Blast (where you stand).”

Khenzy.9348:

I made a thread just before this one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/A-Change-I-d-make-to-Pistol-MH/first#post1674251

Suggesting a short back teleport and acting as a leap finisher, in place of Body Shot. Like a ‘back hearseeker’ so to say for pistol MH (a short teleport instead of an actual leap like Phase Retreat but with a cast time) which would gain stealth through Balck Powder.

But thanks to one of the suggestions, I think I came with something even better:

“If Body Shot was made a blast finisher, it would make Pistol/Pistol and Pistol/Dagger thieves great backline supporters with their blast spaming on Ranger and Ele Watter fields, guardian light fields for some retal, and so on (don’t forget low CD on demand group stealth!!). They would become great at support all of a sudden. It would mimick cluster bomb but you’ll be applying some vulnerability at the same time, maybe even AoE with the Ricochet trait.
Let’s call it Charged Shot. You fire a high powered pistol shot the applies vulnerability to your foes. 3i. ½ cast time. 5 stacks of vulnerability. Combo Finisher: Blast (where you stand).”

If P/P could stealth via blast finisher, why use P/D?

Khenzy.9348:

Charged Shot. You fire a high powered pistol shot the applies vulnerability to your foes. 3i. ½ cast time. 5 stacks of vulnerability. Combo Finisher: Blast (where you stand)."

1 concern would be:

Smoke Field + Spamming this = Huge duration AoE stealth, with the possibility of perma-AoE stealth…

P/P needs leaps/teleporting away. Not stealth.

Unload
Teleport away from your target, Blast your foe repeatedly with both pistols.
Damage: 101
Number of shots: 8
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 900

This would make the P/P thief itself very fun and mobile, you would be teleporting around as much as a staff mesmer does.

Of course the autoattack chain or body shot should have a leap back evasion.

P/P should be all about evasion/teleporting/mobility.

The auto attack thing made me think that it’d be cool if P/P was special and all it’s skills were dual attacks.

I think this is more fitting for a rifle, but were not gonna get a rifle, how about a skill kinda like the rifle in the story quest where it’s like catapult. The longer you hold the button, the stronger the attack gets, but it’ll also consume more initiative

Taril.8619:

1 concern would be:

Smoke Field + Spamming this = Huge duration AoE stealth, with the possibility of perma-AoE stealth…

What’s wrong with that? You can already do that if you have a Shortbow + x/pistol or Shorbow+Smoke Screen, also, you can only have so much initiative.

Dual.8953:

If P/P could stealth via blast finisher, why use P/D?

Why do you use D/P if you can already use D/D, on demand stealth anytime without the need to hit a target, sounds too good right? Oh no, becouse it’s much more expensive in terms of initiatve use. Yep, you still see many more D/D players than D/P.
This would be exactly the same, you would have to spec for very high initiative regen to have stealth even remotely as often as spaming C&D.

Have to agree, its a shame p/p seems so bad compared to all others. I mean the general thief encounter is BACKSTAB BACKSTAB HEARTSEEKER HEARTSEEKER HEARTSEEKER HEARTSEEKER Stealh & finish.

D/D is used 2 much because conditions dont seem all that interesting in general. Dont get me wrong I like the whole idea and it gives a nice bang on thief (I play it myself) but condition gear drops power for more condition damage. That makes non living targets harder to kill. Next to that condition is kinda meeeeh in kill speed compared to BS BS HS HS HS HS as you just see the effect right away and if ur enemy is afk u notice the difference in speed.

Other side is that condition build gives more survivability cuz of a little range you can add when using p/d. Downside is that it doesnt go so well when ur vs a ranged and you need to be up in his face anyway :P

Anyway P/P is defo last option and needs some boosting, d/d perhaps some nerfing. Other options seem ok, depends on how you like to play, seen some good sword/dagger, or other sword combos

Khenzy.9348:

Taril.8619:

1 concern would be:

Smoke Field + Spamming this = Huge duration AoE stealth, with the possibility of perma-AoE stealth…

What’s wrong with that? You can already do that if you have a Shortbow + x/pistol or Shorbow+Smoke Screen, also, you can only have so much initiative.

Dual.8953:

If P/P could stealth via blast finisher, why use P/D?

Why do you use D/P if you can already use D/D, on demand stealth anytime without the need to hit a target, sounds too good right? Oh no, becouse it’s much more expensive in terms of initiatve use. Yep, you still see many more D/D players than D/P.
This would be exactly the same, you would have to spec for very high initiative regen to have stealth even remotely as often as spaming C&D.

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

P/P

Attack 1/“Normal Attack” – should use both pistol xD
Attack 2 – im cool with the vulnerability
Attack 3 – also ok
Attack 4 – Daze xD How about change it to like old gunslinger skill in other game “Desperado” u know shoot 360 ° ?
Attack 5 – yeah need more rework on this…

cmon Anet… make it happen :P

Khenzy.9348:

Taril.8619:

1 concern would be:

Smoke Field + Spamming this = Huge duration AoE stealth, with the possibility of perma-AoE stealth…

What’s wrong with that? You can already do that if you have a Shortbow + x/pistol or Shorbow+Smoke Screen, also, you can only have so much initiative.

Dual.8953:

If P/P could stealth via blast finisher, why use P/D?

Why do you use D/P if you can already use D/D, on demand stealth anytime without the need to hit a target, sounds too good right? Oh no, becouse it’s much more expensive in terms of initiatve use. Yep, you still see many more D/D players than D/P.
This would be exactly the same, you would have to spec for very high initiative regen to have stealth even remotely as often as spaming C&D.

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The cadence of the shots puts me to sleep…

What I’d like to see coming to Pistol (Main hand, off hand is okay as it is, maybe some change to make Headshot more than just a very expensive interrupt)

Pistol #1 – Either an increase in attack speed or an attack chain that can shoot 1/2/3 times rapidly. Reasoning – Currently does low damage and provides very little bleeds due to low duration (Faster attack rate = More bleed stacks = More of a hit + run kind of damage to fit with the fast playstyle of a thief)

Pistol #2 – Changed into “Dragon Shot” a 600 range shadowstep that provides a short duration Burning to targets in the area. Reasoning – Provides Burning to P/D condi thieves (Something Devs wanted to try and fit in thematically, a bullet coated in some sort of dragon blood or something to cause fire could work) and provides mobility for P/P (Also some towards target mobility for P/D to make CnD easier to get off)

I also would like Unload to pierce targets (I don’t mind if it was tied to Pistol Mastery trait to be honest)

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Pretty sure he said dont say cloaked in shadow. the conversation is about weaponsets, not about traits or utility skills (before you bring up blinding powder next)

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

If you don’t add traits in the mix then that is rather foolish, alone P/P has no stealth while P/D does.

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

If you don’t add traits in the mix then that is rather foolish, alone P/P has no stealth while P/D does.

Yeah and I’m arguing if you give P/P a natural stealth, P/D will be rendered obsolete.

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

If you don’t add traits in the mix then that is rather foolish, alone P/P has no stealth while P/D does.

Yeah and I’m arguing if you give P/P a natural stealth, P/D will be rendered obsolete.

Thief can’t just be all about stealth, every set does not need stealth. We need more then just one playstyle, we can’t all be locked down in 0/0/30/0/0

I’m going to address the whole headshot issue… It is a daze that is spammable to an noone else gets this… Be happy with it…

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

If you don’t add traits in the mix then that is rather foolish, alone P/P has no stealth while P/D does.

Yeah and I’m arguing if you give P/P a natural stealth, P/D will be rendered obsolete.

Thief can’t just be all about stealth, every set does not need stealth. We need more then just one playstyle, we can’t all be locked down in 0/0/30/0/0

And what does P/D have without CnD and Sneak Attack? They certainly aren’t going to Shadow Strike, Body Shot or Dancing Dagger someone to death.

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

If you don’t add traits in the mix then that is rather foolish, alone P/P has no stealth while P/D does.

Yeah and I’m arguing if you give P/P a natural stealth, P/D will be rendered obsolete.

Thief can’t just be all about stealth, every set does not need stealth. We need more then just one playstyle, we can’t all be locked down in 0/0/30/0/0

And what does P/D have without CnD and Sneak Attack? They certainly aren’t going to Shadow Strike, Body Shot or Dancing Dagger someone to death.

P/D still has that. So its fine. It is the “stealth Pistol.”.

However, P/P is the “Mobility + Non-stealth Pistol.”

jportell.2197:

I’m going to address the whole headshot issue… It is a daze that is spammable to an noone else gets this… Be happy with it…

Yeah. It can interupt channels on demand, and it PvE it eats defiance for breakfast.