Guild Wars 2

It won’t get you kills in WvW often, but you can delay the taking of supply camps until reinforcements or respawns occur (or just stop the cap in a 1v1, or 1v2 scenario with them not coordinating against you, obviously you aren’t going to stop a zerg flipping), and still blow up yaks(soloing camps is tougher than some other specs). I’ve stopped 3 man parties long enough to get backup. Roaming isn’t terrible, but the true roaming specs can hand it to you if you get caught off guard still. Whoever mentioned support is along the right track. If you have a set few you run with it’s very viable, but then again, any spec is in that setting.

Learned something new, I always thought if the ICD kicked in for a swap sigil, or proc sigil, neither of those types could proc again til ICD cleared. I feel like a dummy (my kitten testing was a few minutes in the mists on this particular subject, lol).

I guess if you had a guild/group on voice comms, or absolutely knew help would come when you call incoming, it might work as a WvW camp defender.

No thanks to dueling; I don’t believe in fighting fair. Thief. ^^

I tried this build in WvW for a week solid. It is possible. I personally got dizzy as hell when I was in combat due to all the moving… And at some points lost my target lol. But the most I seemed to win with this build was 1v2 against two that were not that good. Yes condition will kitten this build. So will constant damage. The Death Blossom only provides 1/4th second of evade so no it is not a perma dodge build. If you want to troll with one of those switch the d/d out with sbs and go at it perma dodge!! But almost no damage. Condition remover will also destroy this build. I like it personally but I think it is more Spvp or PvE. WvW was just not cutting it unless it was 1v1 and even then i could not guarantee a win unless the opponent was a total idiot who did not move from the caltrops. Either way it is a decent build just not the best.

In Spvp I run Perma evasion build, With 4 sigils of energy in my dagger sets. The sigils stack and work. You guys can test it out yourself. Just need to wait a half a sec for the endurance to kick in on swap. If you interrupt the 100% endurance you get back. You need to wait for the CD(9 seconds) again.. This build in WvW is a decent one for soloing camps. With no invaders around. I have done it before multiple times. But The draw back is the mobility.. The weakness to this build is. High DPS/Chill/Condi removal/Kiters/Perma Stealth W. Condi removal & heals in stealth.

It certainly is viable in WvW, but don’t count on it to save your life in zerg fights. As i said in the earlier posts, it is a support build. Having the extra bleeds on an enemy during a 5v5 will help your team out tremendously.

Even in Spvp, I solo Bosses, and Keep Lords.

AikijinX can you please link ur build? thx…

malikah.6280:

AikijinX can you please link ur build? thx…

I run 0/0/10/30/30
The 10 in shadow arts is a blessing. The regeneration and last refuge. On downed state I occasionally get last refuge and the regeneration trait triggered when downed. I am able to heal my self fairly quickly, and in stealth(last refuge trait) on top of the 3 stealth skill, while I shadow step away.

I run 6 runes of adventurer, 4 sigils of energy(they stack 100% endurance back) and Carrion amulet. Now the traits you should have in acrobatics are the one which gives vigor upon healing, 2 initiative every 10 seconds, and 3 int on weapon swap.
For trickery tree have the trait that grants caltrops on dodge, bountiful theft, and heal on initiative.. ( I am away from computer so can’t give you the Roman numerals)

Utilities: withdrawal(heal) / Caltrops/ roll for initiative/ third is utility of your choice. I usually switch based on class I play. But I go with signet of shadows. I don’t worry too much about conditions being on me. I evade too much. And elite skill: Thieves Guild

**I have a Thief thread open if you guys want to pop in and give your feedback, I’ve had a couple responses and feedback, I will need us as a Thief community to discuss our class. It’s called “Thief overall Discussion” please share your insight.

thx, i will check it and give you some response!

ok rebuild it and will try it when Iam back at home ^^

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmKP3dS7E95ECXBL07xXNWhV3DuyqqKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkat+Y8x+j5HA

malikah.6280:

ok rebuild it and will try it when Iam back at home ^^

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmKP3dS7E95ECXBL07xXNWhV3DuyqqKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkat+Y8x+j5HA

The link you have provided was noted as a “bad link” , but yes please give me your feedback. It’s I’d an extraordinary build, but as I said has its draw back, mobility being one. Just note that thus build has the potential and ability to 2v1 and occasionally 3v1 but main purpose is to hold abs troll points. Hold points for back up to arrive

u Need to copy&paste the link

malikah.6280:

u Need to copy&paste the link

I see I see. Well i was on my Iphone. But now I am home. And on my Computer. Did you actually want to meet me in PvP right now?

I’m Kaineng server
IGN: AikijinX

how does the weapon sigils work, tried around but it doesnt refill

malikah.6280:

how does the weapon sigils work, tried around but it doesnt refill

Talk to me in game.

IGN:AikijinX

ok my failure.. i tried it on the Golem and didnt get in combat.
on spvp it worked as mentioned… my link spec really works great ^^
thx for the spec, really like it… its samething i used to lvl in pve

malikah.6280:

ok my failure.. i tried it on the Golem and didnt get in combat.
on spvp it worked as mentioned… my link spec really works great ^^
thx for the spec, really like it… its samething i used to lvl in pve

I whispered you in game. Please respond.

Sry tried to whisp you and you did not response so I logged out. Only tried it and works on spvp.
will give it a try and give u some feedback tomorrow

hm, just looked voids youtube Videos and really enjoyed it…
I will try&compare both builds ^^
Thx

Sounds good, let me know how that goes.

I tried both and prefer aikijinX version of more evasion :\
I felt like an pinata, everyone stick on my and wanted to hurt me
I will stick to that build again, played it on release and lvling to 80…

thx!

malikah.6280:

I tried both and prefer aikijinX version of more evasion :\
I felt like an pinata, everyone stick on my and wanted to hurt me
I will stick to that build again, played it on release and lvling to 80…

thx!

Mate I don’t really know how viable it is in pve just a disclaimer. I’ve only tried it in pop and WVW (three times) <—wasn’t really helpful. Except for soloing camps.

AikijinX.6258:

In Spvp I run Perma evasion build, With 4 sigils of energy in my dagger sets. The sigils stack and work. You guys can test it out yourself. Just need to wait a half a sec for the endurance to kick in on swap. If you interrupt the 100% endurance you get back.

Those sigils have a cooldown, they shouldn’t stack together. It’s probably a bug so. The first sigil when it “procs” should throw the cooldown on the second one and it shouldn’t restore endurance at all.

Those sigils have a cooldown, they shouldn’t stack together. It’s probably a bug so. The first sigil when it “procs” should throw the cooldown on the second one and it shouldn’t restore endurance at all.[/quote]

This is how they were designed mate. These sigils stack, and the only cool down these have that I have seen, witnessed, and expeienced for myself are the swapping weapons CD. If the CD for the sigils(If Any only lasted the duration of the weapon swap CD then what you said will still be irrelevant mate). Take for instance to sigils of blood lust. Those stack. In pvp
•1 kill- 5 stacks(1 sigil of bloodlust)
•1 kill- 10 stacks(2sigils of bloodlust)
No cool down In between the stacks.

The sigils of energy work the same way. Whereas I use 4 sigils of energy on both dagger sets. To restore 100% endurance all the time. I am asked how I have so much endurance and evasions all the time. And 1/3 the reason is due to my sigils. The other is due to other components to my build.

If you like we can engage in a series of duels? And you can witness 1st hand.

ANet made it so that all sigils that have an internal cooldown shared the same cooldown. A reason why putting a “something on weapon swap” sigil with say, a “sigil of fire” doesn’t work sell. When one procs, the other is stuck with the same cooldown as the first until it can proc again.

Also, you say the CD isn’t one, it’s more for weapon swap. Well let me tell you that the CD is very important because many classes can weapon swap a lot more often than once every 9s. Warrior got a trait to reduce swap CD by 5s, elementalist can change attunements more often and the worse, engineer can change kits like once every 0.5s.

The reason your case works is probably because they both proc at the exact same time and the cooldown is started a little later, when it’s too late they already started to give you back endurance. It might not be considered a problem so the bug might remain as it is for a long time though.

Sigils of Bloodlust have no cooldown at all so I’m not too surprised that they stack as you say. Still, since their effect is capped anyway, it’s balances itself because the sigil becomes useless once at the cap.

The idea of going dual D/D and profit from the initiative on weapon swap isn’t knew. It was one of the core points of the original immortal unicorn build that existed since the betas or so :p The usage of twice the sigil of endurance per weapon is novel and is sure making it stronger than at the time. I think I’ll try it in sPvP while it lasts. It was fun at the time so the same but a little stronger should be OK now.

Well the idea of the build was from lowell, thats right (spvp) and there was also a version for pve from minion – both worked very well and I used them, back then…

The bunker build based on it (like a lot of other build here), it works really great +the sigil stack its more than unicorn I entrust you the build…
@Pve, there are better ways to go – but it would work

stof.9341:

ANet made it so that all sigils that have an internal cooldown shared the same cooldown. A reason why putting a “something on weapon swap” sigil with say, a “sigil of fire” doesn’t work sell. When one procs, the other is stuck with the same cooldown as the first until it can proc again.

Also, you say the CD isn’t one, it’s more for weapon swap. Well let me tell you that the CD is very important because many classes can weapon swap a lot more often than once every 9s. Warrior got a trait to reduce swap CD by 5s, elementalist can change attunements more often and the worse, engineer can change kits like once every 0.5s.

The reason your case works is probably because they both proc at the exact same time and the cooldown is started a little later, when it’s too late they already started to give you back endurance. It might not be considered a problem so the bug might remain as it is for a long time though.

Sigils of Bloodlust have no cooldown at all so I’m not too surprised that they stack as you say. Still, since their effect is capped anyway, it’s balances itself because the sigil becomes useless once at the cap.

The idea of going dual D/D and profit from the initiative on weapon swap isn’t knew. It was one of the core points of the original immortal unicorn build that existed since the betas or so :p The usage of twice the sigil of endurance per weapon is novel and is sure making it stronger than at the time. I think I’ll try it in sPvP while it lasts. It was fun at the time so the same but a little stronger should be OK now.

I play no other class, but Thief. I was unaware of the reduced CD’s. But in this case it is still viable due to the fact that the internal sigil CD’s coincide with the weapon swap Thief CD.

I would actually like to duel you, if you change spec.

I had to say, i havent even linked any vids. Im just a thief. My only other 80 is an ele, and i know most mesmer tactics(still my roughest 1v1). I was someone in wow who spent 800+ gold on respecs before dual specs. With cheap respecs/spvp here i just have worked on thief since shortly after release.

That said, im only okay. I get into it too much and start making mistakes. I kittening love thief though, and even if im the last one left, i’ll be here talking to myself.

my mistake sorry, i meant void

malikah.6280:

my mistake sorry, i meant void

no need to say sorry

glad people trying/enjoying the evasion side of thief again. instead of hiding in stealth

@ AikijinX.6258 : didnt know the 2 sigils stacked giving a 100% endurance back , will try if in pvp later today ( probebly bug tho if so )

PS: do not forget that acrobatic traits make it that thief has never lower then 20-25% endurance.
Making the second sigil only give 20-25% usefull endurance back ( half a dodge)

up to the players to see what they need more:
- more condition damage?
- more condition duration?
- half a dodge more on swap?
- ….. alot of choises

Indeed, just wanted credit given correctly. Im no video maker, just a theorycrafter/build tester. I love our options. Its why i stayed thief.

We should all get together and compile some useful kitten to get stickied.

I always prefer the assassins, and as Iam a casual gamer, I dont have any other characters ^^ …so I stick to the thief, no matter what they buff or nerf…

And its as Void said, it is up to the player to choose the traits/skills…
But @spvp I feel better with more options to dodge/evasion.
But if I had to choose between condi dmg or duration I would prefer dmg for spvp, because of cleanse

Void.4239:

malikah.6280:

my mistake sorry, i meant void

no need to say sorry

glad people trying/enjoying the evasion side of thief again. instead of hiding in stealth

@ AikijinX.6258 : didnt know the 2 sigils stacked giving a 100% endurance back , will try if in pvp later today ( probebly bug tho if so )

PS: do not forget that acrobatic traits make it that thief has never lower then 20-25% endurance.
Making the second sigil only give 20-25% usefull endurance back ( half a dodge)

up to the players to see what they need more:
- more condition damage?
- more condition duration?
- half a dodge more on swap?
- ….. alot of choises

Yes mate they do stack to gain 100% endurance. I am often called a hacker lol.. People saying its impossible for that many evades, while dying. But that’s their fault for not looking at their Hp bar.

This build isn’t really something anyone needs to worry about too much IMO. I play it sometimes and I like it, it’s fun, but it’s not very powerful in pvp settings. I love it for doing map completion as it is great for taking down lots of mobs at once(switch from withdraw to signet of malice). It’s also not bad at other things like supply camp flipping or as a support build, but you will have to run from good players using powerful builds(If you don’t believe me duel a good d/d ele/necro/mesmer). That’s not what the build is for though, so it’s fine.

Now before you all pull out videos of people standing on trops in spvp, these are not good players, I’m sorry but they aren’t. So enjoy the build if you like it, it’s fun, but don’t try to make it something it isn’t.

Omerta.9820:

This build isn’t really something anyone needs to worry about too much IMO. I play it sometimes and I like it, it’s fun, but it’s not very powerful in pvp settings. I love it for doing map completion as it is great for taking down lots of mobs at once(switch from withdraw to signet of malice). It’s also not bad at other things like supply camp flipping or as a support build, but you will have to run from good players using powerful builds(If you don’t believe me duel a good d/d ele/necro/mesmer). That’s not what the build is for though, so it’s fine.

Now before you all pull out videos of people standing on trops in spvp, these are not good players, I’m sorry but they aren’t. So enjoy the build if you like it, it’s fun, but don’t try to make it something it isn’t.

From my experience in spvp/tpvp , its a danger for the enemy team that cant be ignored .

and about the trops in spvp/tpvp , people have 2 ways to react on it.

1 ) move out of caltrops and loos the capture point
2 ) stay in caltrops and try to hold the capture point

good player = ?some1 that defends the capture point , or some1 that gives it away?

for me its a win/win situation

added New Vid part 3 ( final part with a sample of how good it is as orb runner in the new map )

My necro stays on the caltrops and transfers the bleed to you. Win/win situation for him :p

stof.9341:

My necro stays on the caltrops and transfers the bleed to you. Win/win situation for him :p

:D hate when they do that ,
i have to blow my shadowstepreturn, or i have to run away and hope i dont die of my own bleeds :p.
perfect counter against any condition build

Void.4239:

stof.9341:

My necro stays on the caltrops and transfers the bleed to you. Win/win situation for him :p

:D hate when they do that ,
i have to blow my shadowstepreturn, or i have to run away and hope i dont die of my own bleeds :p.
perfect counter against any condition build

I LOL when i get killed b my Bleeds with transfer condition necro skiill. I’m like “You Clever kitten” haha

Void.4239:

From my experience in spvp/tpvp , its a danger for the enemy team that cant be ignored .

and about the trops in spvp/tpvp , people have 2 ways to react on it.

1 ) move out of caltrops and loos the capture point
2 ) stay in caltrops and try to hold the capture point

good player = ?some1 that defends the capture point , or some1 that gives it away?

for me its a win/win situation

added New Vid part 3 ( final part with a sample of how good it is as orb runner in the new map )

A good player will kill you. A good thief, ele, necro, eng, will all kill you unless you really like to press buttons and know a little of what you’re doing. Then you can kind of run around in circles forever.

Yes it’s a danger and when used correctly(played well and not used for doing what it doesn’t excel at) it’s an asset to your team in a way that spike builds are not. I’m all about it, I’ve been using it for a long time. If you have a team with a lot of players who can drop poles, then it’s especially useful. Is it more useful than a great d/d or d/p player? Too situational to say.

All I’m saying is this isn’t a build that is going to net you a lot of kills vs good players, that’s all. The damage output is too low to take those builds down. They either have ridiculous cond removal or they can put out so much dmg so quickly, you have to run before applying enough bleeds to do much. I can run from them and continue doing what I do with this build or I can go toe to toe with them which basically involves a lot of running away and no one ever dying(really thrilling with good ele’s and thieves).

I like what you’ve said about the build and I like your personal take on it(I run it a little differently but not too much), but most of the serious builds out there will just send you packing. I totally support the build, totally support what you’re doing with it because it has tons of applications. Still stand by what I said though.

Zuer.2814:

That looks like it’s hilariously fun to play and I CAN’T WAIT to try it!

Thank you for sharing!

well said. cand hold a bunker at best. i ran somethign similar with a lil bit of direct dmg tho myself. its fun but other than bunkering a spot…..cant do much. it would be a top 2 build if the caltrops on roll “uncatchable” were larger. thats the only thing i wish. :P

I use a similar build, but mine doesn’t rely on the on-heal effects, in stead of trying to maximize endurance, I supplement the endurance gain from daggers, vigor, and acrobatics with passive SoM heals. Basically this is a “composite” approach of passive healing, dodging, and weakness rather than throwing all my eggs in one basket. In addition, I keep 10 in shadow arts for bonus condition removal and I also pack a shortbow swap to help deal with certain CCs. In addition I’m usually covering my bleeds with three other conditions in my build (plus any bonuses from steal), which makes them a little tougher to get rid of.

I don’t really sPvP but it’s been doing pretty great in WvW and PvE, though I’m still building those omni infusions.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmiOXey5E95Eh3jvO2wqVgmdP46VrKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkatWYsw+j5HA

PopeUrban.2578:

I use a similar build, but mine doesn’t rely on the on-heal effects, in stead of trying to maximize endurance, I supplement the endurance gain from daggers, vigor, and acrobatics with passive SoM heals. Basically this is a “composite” approach of passive healing, dodging, and weakness rather than throwing all my eggs in one basket. In addition, I keep 10 in shadow arts for bonus condition removal and I also pack a shortbow swap to help deal with certain CCs. In addition I’m usually covering my bleeds with three other conditions in my build (plus any bonuses from steal), which makes them a little tougher to get rid of.

I don’t really sPvP but it’s been doing pretty great in WvW and PvE, though I’m still building those omni infusions.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmiOXey5E95Eh3jvO2wqVgmdP46VrKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkatWYsw+j5HA

yeah i’ve seen the build in action very nice

tho i still prefer withdraw it brings so much more then SoM to the field

when i withdraw, i get :

- +4.3 k heal
- vigor
- +50% endurance
- +4 ini
- cripple / chilled /imob cleans
- huge evade ( very nice mobility skill to )

every 15 secs

Sure passive heals are great…
But i prefer not getting hit , if they miss i dont have to heal it up .
And evades work better for me when facing multiple players then passive heals, tho it all depends how you play it and what you like playing .

how do u get 50% endurance on withdraw? is that from the full effect of vigor accumulated? and yes i aggree withdraw is a lil better.

Travlane.5948:

how do u get 50% endurance on withdraw? is that from the full effect of vigor accumulated? and yes i aggree withdraw is a lil better.

- runes of the adventure ( 6: + 50% endurance on heal )
- sigil of energy ( weapon swap :+50 % endurance )
- signet of agility ( +100 % endurance + 1condi clear )

vigor from heal / DB evades / trait ( -+20-25% endurance regen on dodge use )

and thats how you keep up endless dodges ( making only DB there window of hitting you since DB takes longer then the evade it brings)

I applaud you good sir. Truly how the survivability of a thief should be.

Deamhan.9538:

I applaud you good sir. Truly how the survivability of a thief should be.

ty

makes you wonder why people are still complaining about how thief isnt a survivable class … doesnt it :P

just not enough people thinking outside of the glasscanon box i’m afraid.

Void.4239:

PopeUrban.2578:

I use a similar build, but mine doesn’t rely on the on-heal effects, in stead of trying to maximize endurance, I supplement the endurance gain from daggers, vigor, and acrobatics with passive SoM heals. Basically this is a “composite” approach of passive healing, dodging, and weakness rather than throwing all my eggs in one basket. In addition, I keep 10 in shadow arts for bonus condition removal and I also pack a shortbow swap to help deal with certain CCs. In addition I’m usually covering my bleeds with three other conditions in my build (plus any bonuses from steal), which makes them a little tougher to get rid of.

I don’t really sPvP but it’s been doing pretty great in WvW and PvE, though I’m still building those omni infusions.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmiOXey5E95Eh3jvO2wqVgmdP46VrKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkatWYsw+j5HA

yeah i’ve seen the build in action very nice

tho i still prefer withdraw it brings so much more then SoM to the field

when i withdraw, i get :

- +4.3 k heal
- vigor
- +50% endurance
- +4 ini
- cripple / chilled /imob cleans
- huge evade ( very nice mobility skill to )

every 15 secs

Sure passive heals are great…
But i prefer not getting hit , if they miss i dont have to heal it up .
And evades work better for me when facing multiple players then passive heals, tho it all depends how you play it and what you like playing .

Honestly your version tends to be a lot more solid in 1v1, but the problem I had with that sort of build (personal playstyle wise) was that a lot of things hinged around said ability being off of cooldown, plus I can get a lot of offensive utility out of my “bursty heals” like the Dancing Dagger/Shadow Refuge Combo, the mad king runes, etc. that I just missed too much when I went for full evades.

Very much a playstyle decision though, and your setup is very solid.

Updated build / topic ( 14/09/2013 )