Guild Wars 2

Hello guys! I’m normally a shatter mesmer player but a few weeks ago I decided to branch out and start playing thief as well.. As of now I’ve got cca 100 games on DP (panic strike).

I used to tinker around with thieves a while ago when I was playing with Fave and Neph (I presume some of you may know them) but neither are DP players (I still play with Neph a lot and he did switch to DP but he hasn’t been playing it a lot as far as I know) I tried SD but, while I’m better at it than at dp (due to the help from the two of them) I prefer DP. I guess I’m more of a burst type player. I’m good at rotating since it’s very similar to mesmer (decaps were a new idea but I got comfortable with it quickly), however I struggle with a few things.

Here are my questions:

1. How do you normally setup a burst? Do you stealth near the player you wanna kill, do you precast backstab and use infiltrator with it or steal perhaps (can this be even done? I presume so, tried it out a lot of times, but doesn’t work always, timing issue?) or do you just walk up to the player?

2. I have a hard time landing backstabs. I mostly run out of stealth by the time I position myself.
I learned the camera trick to get 4 HS in through BP but it feels like unneeded if I’m in a fight and am about to break it soon to burst because I’ll be out of initiative.
I stealth with 1 heartseeker, should I use 2 to give me more time or get used to getting the burst in quickly?

3. Initiative management.. How much should I keep at all times cca? I often find myself out of it or at least with 2-4 left since every skill just costs a lot of it.

4. Short bow, how often do you use it? I often do it right after I burst to get out of there and kite around but I feel like I should maybe be in my dp set a bit more..
Also, I’ve seen top thieves use shortbow 5 multiple times in a row and still have decent intiative, how is that possible? Is there a trick I’m missing out on?

5. Which sigils do you run on dp? I have air + fire on dp, energy + generosity on shortbow, I used to run rage + air on DP but I found air + fire works somewhat better..

Thanks to everyone for the replies in advance!
Have a wonderful rest of your day, have fun killing mesmers!

Before I begin, bear in mind I am not a great Thief. I am a strategist however and I know how to play my opponents.

1. If possible, I try my best to assure they haven’t seen me before attacking. If they see a Black Powder ring or a Shadow Refuge they may not know from where I’ll attack but they will still be prepared for an attack. Which means they may dodge it after counting out a few seconds in their heads or have their fingers prepared over a button that will deny me of my burst.
I find it best to stealth out of sight (which means at a distance) and without wasting a second quickly moving towards them (I use Fleet Of Shadows which helps greatly). Basilisk Venom + activated Assassin’s Signet are good tools for a burst mind you it’s probably a better idea to save activating Assassin’s Signet for after you’ve landed a burst to further put the pressure on them.

2. Depending on where you stealth, 2 leaps through Black Powder should be enough, assuming you’re out of combat prior to doing so. You can also use Smoke Screen to avoid wasting the Initiative that Black Powder requires.
If you use the method I use, which is stealthing out of sight, you may need more leaps. I prefer to use Shadow Refuge instead of using Initiative. Although not having a Shadow Refuge when I need it can be dangerous, I find it better to enter the fight with a nearly guaranteed upper hand via surprise attack better than relying on a reset. Overall, I would say get used to landing the burst quickly. The less Initiative you use prior to landing the burst, the better. That way you have more to work with once you’re engaged. The “Infusion Of Shadow” trait can help to make your life easier if you’re having a hard time managing Initiative.

3. Never run yourself to 0 and try not to hover around 2. Otherwise, Initiative is there to use the same way cooldowns are there to use – it’s best not to go crazy with it but it’s also best not to always be saving it for the opportune moment. Fights aren’t always going to go exactly how you want. As long as you’re not constantly at 0, I think it’s okay to use up your Initiative since that’s what it’s there for. Same idea with a Necromancer (which is what I main), it’s best not to camp Death Shroud until it runs out but it’s fine to camp it until you’re down to 10 or 20% because it’ll replenish itself fairly quickly anyway.

4. Being at least 3 in Trickery allows you to have 3 extra Initiative. This could be it. You can also time your Infiltraitor’s Shot to be used the second your Initiative replenishes itself, thus allowing you to use it multiple times.
Personally, I swap back and fourth between my D/P and SB quite regularly. I land my burst, do a few AA’s, stealth up, switch to shortbow, then I keep at range, putting Poison on them and forcing them to chase me around which often leads to them getting clumsy. I will only stay in my shortbow for the 10seconds between cooldowns before switching back to my main weapon set. Keeping Poison on people is important to reduce the effectiveness of their heals, Regeneration, etc. especially on Warriors, Guardians, Elementalists, Engineers and other Thieves.
Also, something I have been taught by other Thieves; “when all else fails, spam Disabling Shot.” Not exactly great advice but it can get you out of a hairy situation. If you’re really feeling pressure and you can’t swap back to your primary weapon set, spamming Disabling Shot can save your behind.

5. Air and Fire on my D/P as well and Energy, Doom on my Shortbow.

Remember that Thieves excel at mind-games. People can predict where you are in stealth but they cannot know for certain. Being unpredictable can make you a lot stronger. For example, I enjoy stealing from a Ranger, dropping a Healing Seed infront of them, then leaving. They’ll stay on the node prepared for an attack when I’m no where near, allowing me to add to another fight while they sit there paranoid, doing nothing.
Or, doing hit and runs. Opening with a backstab and a few AA’s to get someone on their toes then stealthing up without finishing the fight. Same story, they swing their weapons and stick around for a bit, paranoid and prepared for an attack while I’m actually on the other side of the map doing something else.
OR, or.. Using Shadow Step while stealthed to get behind someone. Attacking them, running away, letting them see you run away so they think you’re disengaging, stealthing up, then using Shadow Return while still stealthed to juke them. They think you’ve run off when all you were doing was tricking them in to dropping their guard.

Hope this helps (:

1. How do you normally setup a burst? Do you stealth near the player you wanna kill, do you precast backstab and use infiltrator with it or steal perhaps (can this be even done? I presume so, tried it out a lot of times, but doesn’t work always, timing issue?) or do you just walk up to the player?

90% of the time, you’ll find yourself backstabing from range and rarely melee. This is done by precasting Backstab into Steal/InfilSig like you mentioned. The timing is not that hard to get down. Try hitting the golems with it a couple of times.

2. I have a hard time landing backstabs. I mostly run out of stealth by the time I position myself.
I learned the camera trick to get 4 HS in through BP but it feels like unneeded if I’m in a fight and am about to break it soon to burst because I’ll be out of initiative.
I stealth with 1 heartseeker, should I use 2 to give me more time or get used to getting the burst in quickly?

You’re trying to fight like a Shadow Arts D/P. As D/P Panic Strike, the bulk of your damage isn’t going to come from backstab unless you get a clean opening on the target or are in a favored 1v2 or something. Most of the damage is through auto attacks and Shadow Shots. Shortbow Suprise Shot + Clusterspam is not to be underestimated.

3. Initiative management.. How much should I keep at all times cca? I often find myself out of it or at least with 2-4 left since every skill just costs a lot of it.

As long as you don’t spam your skills or try to stealth up too often, you should be fine here. In D/P, you should be auto attacking along with Shadow Shot/Headshot/Black Powder (as the situation demands). Auto attack is your best friend. In Shortbow, you’ll barely ever use 5 unless trying to disengage, #4 when a heal is coming up or when fighting Engis, #3 for timing or random dodging (extremely effective when you expect a leap coz cripple), #2 for burst and #1 for good pressure in team fights or to setup a burst when used from stealth.

4. Short bow, how often do you use it? I often do it right after I burst to get out of there and kite around but I feel like I should maybe be in my dp set a bit more..
Also, I’ve seen top thieves use shortbow 5 multiple times in a row and still have decent intiative, how is that possible? Is there a trick I’m missing out on?

A lot. It’s your go-to weapon for team fights and down bodies, very good opener in 1v1s and for specific scenarios:
vs mesmer – After you’ve landed your burst or when the mesmer has staff up and is standing in the middle of clones in his chaos storm etc.
vs necro – he’s in staff or DS and you wanna evade spam or LoS poke.
vs engi – your best chance of 1v1ing an engi as D/P is to get an engage in D/P and fall back on shortbow for eternity and finally finishing with D/P. camping shortbow/immob-clusterspam is extremely important in this matchup.
vs thief – they go bow, you go bow or when you know they have their shadowstep and withdraw blown to immob-clusterspam and finish (excellent way to bait out steal when you know it’s off CD is to immob from bow and dodge right after. enemy will try to daze expecting a burst)
vs warrior – never really, idk
vs guardian – to poison shelter and blow his CDs into SB 3 spams or to poke from an unportable spot while strafing etc
vs ranger – cluster spamming OP tree

5. Which sigils do you run on dp? I have air + fire on dp, energy + generosity on shortbow, I used to run rage + air on DP but I found air + fire works somewhat better..

I personally use Air+Fire on both melee and bow, but there are other really good options. Generosity on bow, Blood on D/P instead of fire, Energy on bow, Hydromancy on bow etc.

Most of all, practice. Learn the capabilities of your weapons and utilities in the various matchups. The wonderful thing about this class is that you learn to adapt in a lot of different situations and after a point it becomes muscle memory.

When you’re new to thief, setting up and bursting targets can feel wonky, but the more you play, the more fluid it becomes. For settin up burst, it’s not only important to be 1) unpredictable, but 2) choose your burst set up method and positioning based on what your target is, what it’s doing, and how many cool downs it has up.

Yes, backstab can be precast and used in conjunction with infiltrator signet, steal, and shadow step. You can also pull off a backstab from a Shadow shot (DP #3), it’s pretty easy to do, though it is dependent on distance.

9 times out of 10 I am using one heart seeker out of black powder, but stacking stealth can be good in certain situations. If you’re having trouble landing backstabs and running out of stealth, then use your infiltrator signet more often, and practice the backstab > steal combo.

Don’t think that a DP thief is just a backstab machine. Dagger auto attack does a lot of damage, and shadow shot will help keep you alive and on top of your target. Sometimes it’s just as effective to harass a player that way, rather than constantly going for backstabs.

Initiative managements comes with experience and learning not to spam, but you are running 6 points in trickery, correct?

Shortbow should be used just as much as DP. Depending on the enemy team composition, you might end up in shortbow more than DP. Thieves should generally not be standing on points and in the thick of a team fight, but that’s a good opportunity to shortbow to spread some damage around. If there is a low health target or a squishy you can get to, then swap to DP and get on top of them.

Sigils can be up to preference, the meta DP build includes air/blood on DP set, and fire/generosity in shortbow. Blood can be swapped for fire, fire for air, generosity for energy, and it doesn’t really change much. Go with what you think works best for you.

A lot of your questions really come down to just having more experience with the thief class and maybe PvP in general. Hope this helped though.

1: there are two optimal ways to set up a burst if you are starting a fight or +1ing.
first is you get in steal range of your victim (800 to 900 distance), cast black powder and heartseeker through it. While you are flying through the air use steal to instantly teleport to your target and land the heartseeker, which you then follow up with a backstab and auto attacks.

Second burst option is similar except you use seal while casting black powder to drop it on top of your target and then heartseeker in melee range. This is better if he sees you coming.
You can also use infiltrator’s signet to teleport if steal is on cd.

2: Do you have swiftness? it is really hard to land a good back backstab if you do not and your target has.
Also turn off the ‘auto attack assist’ option in the game menu, it is suppose to help you land auto attacks by making enemies body block you (to stop you passing through them) but in actuality it just hinders you while attacking someone that is moving, but more importantly for backstabing it allows you to get to a characters flank more easily
if he is facing you (just go through him and do a 180 turn).

If you are at a distance and have stealth, but not enough to make it to the target in time you can use shadow shot (if on d/p) to teleport to him (the shot does no damage, just blinds so it will not break stealth) and cancel the stab but spamming skill 1 (backstab) to get a backstab instead of the shadow stab (or if you do not want to backstab immediately after teleporting with #3 ,you can use the sheath weapon button to cancel any attack to better position yourself).

3: Unless you know that you can murder your target by spending most of your initiative, never drop below 6. Reason for that is you need at least 6 to start entering stealth or try to run away. (cloak & dagger, and infiltrator’s arrow, or black powder with you staying in it for 2 or so sec to be able to h.seeker and also to make use of first strike if you go 6 in critical strikes).
You can drop lower than 6 (to about 3) with comfort if you go deep in to trickery or are using BOTH quick recovery (in acrobatics) and infiltrator’s signet (for it’s passive unless you need to stun break or catch a fleeing enemy) with at least 3 in critical strikes (for the minor trait opportunist), as thees setup allow for fast initiative regeneration (the trickery one requires cd management of steal, basically never use it if you are at full initiative).

4: Use it if there is too muck aoe or cleave to stay in melee range, and to reposition yourself. Swapping to it after you burst once is really bad unless you are fighting a engineer or get a heavy counterattack.
Since s.bow is a utility weapon i usually out a sigil of generosity on it to better combat conditions and a sigil of energy/bloodlust depending on the enemy team.
Swap to s.bow at the very start of a fight (you have it out before you enter combat) or very soon after if you need to poison someone in order to win aka some warrior builds or every celestial elementalist.

5: air/fire on d/p (or any dps weapon set for thief) are the go to for burst damage, but you can swap out fire for force if you want more consistent dps (you sacrifice a bit of burst but it is worth it depending on the enemy team), or in some cases fire for generosity or nullification.
For short bow, other than what i mentioned above, you can use hydromancy, leaching, perception, fire (for some burst on s.bow), or if they have more than 1 engineer on the team or are heavy on condi spam in general purity+generosity is really strong.