Guild Wars 2

I see almost no thieves having 30 points in deadly arts, not even for PvE. Reason is both grandmasters traits for DA are very underpowered.

It should have its duration increased or cooldown lowered to make it worthy of being a grandmasters trait. Alternatively, change it to be a stun instead. Considering that a warrior can have 50%+ stun uptime, so even a 4s stun every 30 seconds is FAR from being OP.

What say you?

Panic strike is fine its a strong trait but its difficult to maintain offensive threat and initiative management when you invest that heavy into DA since DA has no initiative related traits. So most go all in which is obviously high risk.

Hmm… 5 seconds of immobilization every 30 seconds when your target is under 50%? I never thought about it before, but this could be some nice control for melee / chasing bosses in PvE. In PvP I think the appeal is more obvious, since if you’re fighting someone that’s kite / evasion reliant, 5 seconds of immobilization is using a condition clear or death.

How about you try it and make this statement happened “…5 seconds of immobilization is using a condition clear or death.”

Um, immobilizing something for 5 seconds so you don’t have to dodge while you finish it off from ranged is an amazing capability.

In my opinion, it’s actually kind of good on paper, especially if you’re using a dagger MH. When your opponent hits 50% and doesn’t cleanse the immobilize you can easily BS and then HS them to death. The issue, however, I see with deadly arts in general is that critical strikes is simply better when it comes to dealing damage, mostly because of hidden killer/executioner, two of our best offensive steroids. They (and the stat combination of precision and critical damage) are so good that in fact, if you want to deal direct damage as thief, 30 CS is almost mandatory.

Very few builds will, however, actually invest 30 in two offensive trees. Considering how squishy thiefs are by nature, only burst builds (or godlike dodgers) would consider going 30/30/x/x/x. It’s good for burst builds though, right? Well, not really, since burst builds are generally not going to attack a target if they’re going to be below 50% for long enough for the immobilze to matter – they’ll only jump a target if they know it will be downed by their BS combo (and/or a few HS). This can generally be secured by basilisk venom just as well, so the immobilize would be kind of wasted.

I’ve tinkered with a condition build using this trait a while ago, to force an enemy to stand in my caltrops for 8 seconds (100% condi duration is perfectly fair and balanced) once they get low. I don’t really enjoy condi thief though and didn’t have the patience to keep experimenting.

TL;DR: 30 CS is pretty much mandatory for direct damage; 30/30 isn’t really feasible for anything but burst builds, and those down the enemy too quickly for the immobilize to matter anyway most of the time.
=> Balanced builds, that would use the lockdown because their damage is lower and they’d need the additional time for a kill use CS instead of DA because it offers more damage and they can’t afford to put 60 points into offensive traits.

Siva Mira.3546:

How about you try it and make this statement happened “…5 seconds of immobilization is using a condition clear or death.”

If you’re fighting someone that’s evade / dodge reliant. It’s a pretty important qualifier, so I’d like it included. If you’re up against someone who can tank your attacks for 5 seconds, or has a lot of blocking skills ready, then no, they won’t need to worry about you.

Really, given that a major use of devourer venom in PvP is to lock people down for burst combos, this seems like a trait that does the same thing and frees up a utility slot. Also a slightly shorter cooldown. Seems fine for a Grandmaster in the direct damage / condition duration line.

The trait is very strong in 1v1 pvp. But just like many other “on 50% enemy hp” traits its very weak in multiple target situations due to very weak thought of anet on balancing and enforcing cooldowns.
To bring an extreme example:
For example engineer has 6 traits as I recall (you can have 4 of them at same time) that grant a single target effect on enemy on a cooldown for class that literally does not have viable single target attacks.
I would very actually agree to trade a bit of that duration or the length of the cooldown for the cooldown to be “per target affected”. 5 second immobilize together with con duration is an overkill anyway.
Now if I could have all of those procs on all of the proffesions on ANY target with same chance and proc rate – I would definetely bring more of those traits in.
Personally now I find a great use for this trait in wvw P/P unload spam. Devourer venom > unloads until trait proc > more unloads. There are very few people that would use con removal on immobile unless they have skills to especially deal with it.

? It’s a 4s immobilize.

its in a 30% con duration trait line

does the immobilize apply to multiple targets or just 1?

at the moment one only. and its 30 sec cooldown overall, not just on target you immobilised

Ichishi.9613:

at the moment one only. and its 30 sec cooldown overall, not just on target you immobilised

but what if you use an attack that hits multiple targets at once and you bring them to under 50% HP simultaneously?

Obtena.7952:

Um, immobilizing something for 5 seconds so you don’t have to dodge while you finish it off from ranged is an amazing capability.

Until they cleanse it away like it was nothing.

Excalibur.9748:

but what if you use an attack that hits multiple targets at once and you bring them to under 50% HP simultaneously?

It will immobilize either your main target, or an enemy who is closest to you.

Dagins.5163:

Excalibur.9748:

but what if you use an attack that hits multiple targets at once and you bring them to under 50% HP simultaneously?

It will immobilize either your main target, or an enemy who is closest to you.

More to that:
-The trait is not multi hit, so once it proc it will start CD and once the CD started it won’t proc anymore.

Back to the topic,
I don’t think this trait is bad or weak but there are just better choices.
People would just pick Executioner over this and any Thiefs with Shortbow will choose Preparedness over this. If they have another extra 5 points I am sure you will see people play it.

I don’t think this trait is bad or weak but there are just better choices.

Isn’t that the definition of underpowered?

That is like saying Warrior is underpowered.

Siva Mira.3546:

That is like saying Warrior is underpowered.

warrior is OP now with their new mace/shield + greatsword build in WvW. always been OP in PvE too. but the most op part is their buffed healing signet. 390+ HPS for a passive heal, HIGHEST HPS in the game, totally passive.

Similar
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Bolas

Throw Bolas
Utility (tier 1) Type Physical
Not available underwater ½ Activation time 20 Recharge time

Throw bolas to immobilize your foe 4 s
Damage Damage: 61
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

This skill causes the longest base duration of immobilized.

OIIIIIO.7825:

Similar
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Bolas

Throw Bolas
Utility (tier 1) Type Physical
Not available underwater ½ Activation time 20 Recharge time

Throw bolas to immobilize your foe 4 s
Damage Damage: 61
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

This skill causes the longest base duration of immobilized.

Would be more similar if panic strike had 20s icd.

Excalibur.9748:

Siva Mira.3546:

That is like saying Warrior is underpowered.

warrior is OP now with their new mace/shield + greatsword build in WvW. always been OP in PvE too. but the most op part is their buffed healing signet. 390+ HPS for a passive heal, HIGHEST HPS in the game, totally passive.

And yet, not a single Warrior was seen in PAX Tournament. And by your definition, Warrior is underpowered in tPvP.

Siva Mira.3546:

Excalibur.9748:

Siva Mira.3546:

That is like saying Warrior is underpowered.

warrior is OP now with their new mace/shield + greatsword build in WvW. always been OP in PvE too. but the most op part is their buffed healing signet. 390+ HPS for a passive heal, HIGHEST HPS in the game, totally passive.

And yet, not a single Warrior was seen in PAX Tournament. And by your definition, Warrior is underpowered in tPvP.

warrior is bottom tier in tPvP currently, but I think it’s more that the meta hasn’t caught up to warrior buffs yet. In the next tournament you can expect to see more warriors (if they don’t get nerfed)

Panic strike shouldnt be grandmaster imo. It is kinda fun to use with a spike build though on a D/D thief. Mix it with Basilisk venom and someone is locked down until they die. But at that rate you might as well just take residual venom and not lose your panic strike when hitting a random foe <50% hp.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Panic strike shouldnt be grandmaster imo. It is kinda fun to use with a spike build though on a D/D thief. Mix it with Basilisk venom and someone is locked down until they die. But at that rate you might as well just take residual venom and not lose your panic strike when hitting a random foe <50% hp.

agreed. it’s obviously UP for grandmasters.

I agree OP, Panic Strike should not be a grandmaster trait. It’s a decent trait, but if you look at the thief’s other grandmaster traits they are things which can really define a build, like executioner or hidden killer. I’d like to see Panic Strike moved to X, and have a completely new possibly condition focused trait in the GM tier

Rexatyr.2893:

if you want to deal direct damage as thief, 30 CS is almost mandatory.

FTFY

The current Panic Strike is useless, I want it to cause knockdown.