Guild Wars 2

As a warrior I have never complained about thief’s. I have always left that to other classes like rangers to do the complaining.

Always felt like I had the advantage vs them in most fights and it was only the really strong thief’s that put everything into damage and caught me off guard that got me.

I have yet to die from a thief with this build but I am just saying It seems over the top. It’s super annoying. To be honest it makes the fight last a long time and its a lot of fun for such a long fight but it just seems over the top to me.

I know you are thinking how can a warrior say anything is over the top, and I agree there are some warrior mechanics are are a bit easy mode but I see no warriors perma dodging.

Same as I’m thinking when I’m fighting a hambow warrior with soldiers amulet while I’m on my engineer.

I suppose it was S/D 10/0/0/30/30, many thieves got interested in that build after tournament of legends. I wouldn’t pick it up myself, for the exact reason you mentioned there, it wont kill you and the fight lasts too long, and it can’t push or pressure you off points, and it’s still really fragile if it gets locked down or taking something like an eviscerate from a warrior between the dodge frames.

I came from the guard appartment and I also never complained about any classes, but yesterday I fought a thief with this build and I just couldn’t hit him. Everything I do, he evades. For 5 mins fight I hit him only twice with my ranged weapon. I didn’t want to say this, but it’s clearly OP. Image you as thief fighting other classes who can dodge all the time. You would say the same thing. I have played many games so I can tell what’s op or not. Also, he dodged through the whole WvW main zerk, the commander even tried to kill him because he suggest that the thief is an spy.

I don’t know what you mean by this Perma Dodge, sure we have Sword Skills and Withdraw along with our usual Evades, but it is far from being OP as we don’t have access to boons or invulnerability.

Compared to Stealth you get so much more going pooling into Shadow Arts and you can Burst under stealth also, if Anet listened to each and every QQ about Thieves they might aswell Delete the Class .

Being able to dodge all the time is almost the same as invulnerability. And I don’t care if they are “stronger” by using stealth, as thief are suppose to be one. But you can’t make something like perma dodge, every class would be happy to trade their boons for perma dodge. If they are not OP, then tell me, how can you kill things that are not hitable ? (Besides, the thief won against 2 of us, since we can’t hit him)

Kirnale.5914:

If they are not OP, then tell me, how can you kill things that are not hitable ?

Use the force.

Seriously, people need to stop implementing words like ‘perma’ and ‘OP’ every other sentence.

Kirnale.5914:

Being able to dodge all the time is almost the same as invulnerability. And I don’t care if they are “stronger” by using stealth, as thief are suppose to be one. But you can’t make something like perma dodge, every class would be happy to trade their boons for perma dodge. If they are not OP, then tell me, how can you kill things that are not hitable ? (Besides, the thief won against 2 of us, since we can’t hit him)

I’m playing s/p thief and don’t have that much troubles with s/d thieves. If you can’t even fight with them, then you just need more practice.

S/D Thieves have been around for a while now and the newly popularized Trickery version of it doesn’t really add many more dodges.

You can call it OP but really it’s just a build that has stacked all forms of Endurance regeneration from Vigor over Feline Grace to Sigils of Stamina. Either of these elements contribute to the perma-evasion.

But really it’s as close a Thief gets to playing a “bunker” build. Your damage is mediocre and conditions still melt you.

Is it a bit dumb that you can stack so many endurance effects? Probably yes, but the build really isn’t dumber than any of the other bunker builds like Hambow, Guardians, condition Rangers etc.

It just seems more OP because it’s not been the meta for a while.

Warlord.9074:

As a warrior I have never complained about thief’s. I have always left that to other classes like rangers to do the complaining.

Always felt like I had the advantage vs them in most fights and it was only the really strong thief’s that put everything into damage and caught me off guard that got me.

I have yet to die from a thief with this build but I am just saying It seems over the top. It’s super annoying. To be honest it makes the fight last a long time and its a lot of fun for such a long fight but it just seems over the top to me.

I know you are thinking how can a warrior say anything is over the top, and I agree there are some warrior mechanics are are a bit easy mode but I see no warriors perma dodging.

So you are saying that they are over the top because it takes longer for you to kill them? I mean it could make sense arguing against D/P burst thieves, which can beat you relatively easy if they get the opener. Or how the stolen whirl needs to be tuned down. Or maybe if they actually kill you, oh well.

2/0/0/6/6 DPS S/D has inferior DPS to pretty much every build out there (maybe even P/P perplexity burst). It doesn’t invest in Critical strikes which if a Sword user does take, improve 20% damage after 50% health, about 20% more crit damage, and about like 10~% crit chance while keeping relatively the same HP with a trait. In PvP, I can only see utility in holding a node or applying pressure with dazes/boon steal

As much as a “bunker” build goes, it doesn’t invest in condi damage like what other classes do (hambow, rangers, mesmers, necros) which means any opposing bunker or even a glass cannon can stomp S/D if attention is not paid enough. If they’re just spamming evade then they’re not dealing damage, which is the same concept as a ‘perma-stealth’ thief.

I use this build in WvW. Its quite fun. I purposely tried to design a build that didn’t use stealth because I hate stealth and think its lame. Evades and shadow stepping is more of which I wish the thief was like instead of all these stealth builds.

While the evade frames are plenty, the thief behind them is very fragile since you have nothing to go into toughness, this build is one of the perfect examples of active defending I think, and I can now say that I’ve used it before ToL so I did 2/0/0/6/6 before it was cool >_>

Warlord.9074:

I have yet to die from a thief with this build but I am just saying It seems over the top. It’s super annoying. To be honest it makes the fight last a long time and its a lot of fun for such a long fight but it just seems over the top to me

It’s super-annoying that if I want 18,000+ health and 2200+ Armor, I have to actually itemize for it.

Just as a little advice to help the OP. When I’m on my warrior, Axe/X + Longbow counters S/D thieves pretty well. Axe autos are fast enough that there aren’t enough evade frames fo soak them all and Longbow F1 will force the thief to take damage if they want to get close to you. Once you figure out the timing of S/D, you should be able to catch them with an eviscerate (~75% of the thief’s health). Try casting it when they start flanking strike and you should catch them right after the evade frames end.

I find it a little weird why there is any discussion considering you have yet to die from something that seems OTT to you? How can it be OTT if you still didn’t lose to it?

I find pretty much any Warrior build that uses most sources of passive health regeneration extremely annoying to fight but I still find ways to kill them all the same. I have no right to complain in that sense. Annoying =/= imbalance. Same with evasive Thieves. It’s just swatting an angry wasp.

Warriors are EZ mode in PVP ; anyone who has tried both classes or any other class for that matter can attest to that.

Tell the devs give thieves builds that can actually do something else than stealth and evade to survive and you will start seeing less and less of the stealth and evade abuse.

Even with those, anyone who knows how to PVP can easily kill a thief…if you’re build to spam evades you hit like a wet fart…can’t believe comments like that still flowing on forums especially from a warrior!!!

Just time your cc and that thief is fried, that’s pretty much it. S/D was a bunker buster because of larcenous strike that is unblockable and steal a boon – which it is pretty good at. Other than that it’s not good for anything else then duels…

The S/D set has also been nerfed a lot from the larcenous nerf, vigor, shadow return nerf and lyssa nerf – the only other way to keep endurance regen up is through bountiful theft and points in acrobatics, with sigil of energy as optional.

lol. Takes a lot of investment and a lot of skill to play the build. Screw up once or twice and you’re dead.
Nothing compared to hambow warrior, especially with new sigil of intelligence they can go valkyrie amulet and hit as hard as berserker.
It’s all about timing skills, after all. Even 10/0/0/30/30 thief build can only dodge 60-70% of the time. What’s so hard about timing skills right after their dodge moves end, or immobilizing them, or CCing them?
But I have to agree it’s one of the hardest and one of the most rewarding thief playstyles. Something you don’t get to see on a warrior.
But of course you’d rather get a hit with Earthshaker on a thief instead of seeing him Evade. Except that a stun combo is going to take around 80% of zerk thief’s HP.

revy.4320:

Warlord.9074:

As a warrior I have never complained about thief’s. I have always left that to other classes like rangers to do the complaining.

Always felt like I had the advantage vs them in most fights and it was only the really strong thief’s that put everything into damage and caught me off guard that got me.

I have yet to die from a thief with this build but I am just saying It seems over the top. It’s super annoying. To be honest it makes the fight last a long time and its a lot of fun for such a long fight but it just seems over the top to me.

I know you are thinking how can a warrior say anything is over the top, and I agree there are some warrior mechanics are are a bit easy mode but I see no warriors perma dodging.

So you are saying that they are over the top because it takes longer for you to kill them? I mean it could make sense arguing against D/P burst thieves, which can beat you relatively easy if they get the opener. Or how the stolen whirl needs to be tuned down. Or maybe if they actually kill you, oh well.

You’re right. I didn’t phrase it that well. I just didn’t want to come off as sounding like a cry baby. I see too many people crying about thief’s all of the time and its mostly a learn to play issue. Since I am a warrior that decently know how to play and know how ridiculous some of the warrior abilities are I didn’t want to come off as sounding like I am pointing the finger at thief. It would be like the grass calling the plant green or something.

All I really wanted to do was complain about what I see as a perma evasion almost.

Its not really perma evasion at all. Its just as a warrior many of your abilities have long Cast times and obvious animations. Combined with skilled usage of infiltrators return and positioning yeah it can be basically impossible to hit these thieves.

But make a thief and try playing this “perma-dodge” build. Its much harder than it looks

I bet it is hard. I have a thief fully geared out that I never play. I may consider trying it out. I think it would be good for scouting in WvW.

In pvp where a thief has no real room to kite, they do not have an advantage. But in wvw, a thief and a druid are unbeatable by a warrior. Thieves have perma evade and the druid can stealth and knockback making it almost impossible to beat them.

Necro much?

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Necro much?

2 years issues are still relevant if they warrant another nerf.

Seems legit.

2 years and Anet still don’t know how to balance this class, they keep doing the same nerfs and buffs.

It’s hilarious…

Zero Day.2594:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Necro much?

2 years issues are still relevant if they warrant another nerf.

Seems legit.

Definitely, but considering it got nerfed before the necro and the content of his post, I think he just didn’t look at the dates lol