Guild Wars 2

Brain it’s a wonderful counter to stealth

Boysenberry.1869:

This is just a whine post about how irritating Perma-Stealth thieves are and how they seem designed for the sole purpose of being annoying and nothing else.

My solutions:

[nerf thieves]

Top kek.

Darksyze:

redesign thief traits…

Redesign which traits? Give us specific examples and why.

As long as you do not suggest very specific things that should be changed in the class it is as vague as saying “Anet please make this game better” without stating any details. If you say you know about thief I don’t see any reason for you to not break it down to specific problematic traits and skills. I don’t understand why people have to present gameplay mechanics they are not fond of as reprehensible. What the OP is saying is by no means griefing.

We can agree that there are a few builds that are very forgiving for thieves such as p/d, but it is not so for the whole profession or the stealth mechanic as a whole.

if people want to remove stealth from thieves, than your gonna have to wait like 2 years for anet to pull their resources to do it lol

To Turk include Thief Players: Part 1

I will introduce thief profession 2 most problematic traits that are responsible for making this profession not challenging and fun: – Shadow Arts and Trickery.

Shadow Arts is too powerful: it is reason for stealth abuse and give thief profession too much reward for just stealthing instead of taking risk.

Trickery is too powerful: it is reason for the very high damage include stealing for instant kill. It give thief profession too much access to death/instant kill instead of hard work. Also not forget: Boon stripping is very powerful so i adjust it to every 60 seconds.

I will give my suggestion of change to those 2 most problematic traits in thief profession.

Last- I felt the ones that do not require change was challenging and important to make thief more support to their allies. The traits that are no longer- will be replaced with challenge skills that do not give thief too much advantage)

I hope you like it:)

Any suggestion and criticism is okay: as long respect forum rule and respect each other That is all i ask
——————————————————————————————————————————————————

Redesign -Shadow Arts-

Adept: Last Refuge- Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches a certain threshold.
(Last Refuge- Blinding Powder duration: 1 second)

Master: Meld with Shadows- Stealth skills last longer.
(Meld with Shadows- Stealth skills no longer last longer)

Grandmaster: Hidden Assassin- Gain might when you gain stealth.
(Hidden Assasin- This trait no longer grant might when you gain stealth)

Adept: Master of Deception- Reduces recharge on deception skills.
(No Change)

Adept: Slowed Pulse- Grant regeneration if you have two or more stacks of bleeding.
(Slowed Pulse- Grant no longer grant regeneration if you have two or more stacks of bleeding. It is now restrict to two stacks of bleeding)

Adept: Shadow Protector- When you grant stealth to an ally, they gain regeneration. This effect does not trigger if your ally already has regeneration.
(no change)

Adept: Shadow’s Embrace- Remove conditions periodically while in stealth.
(Shadow’s Embrace- no longer remove conditions periodically while in stealth)

Adept: Infusion of Shadow- Gain initiative when you enter stealth.
(Infusion of Shadow- No longer gain initiative when you enter stealth)

Adept: Cloaked in Shadow- Gaining stealth blinds nearby foes.
(no change)

Master: Power Shots- Short bow and harpoon gun damage is increased.
(no change)

Master: Hidden Thief- Stealing grants you stealth.
(Hidden Thief- Stealing no longer grants you stealth)

Master: Leeching Venoms- Siphon life from your foe when triggering a venom. This can only occur once per strike.
(no change)

Master: Patience- Regain initiative faster while in stealth.
(Patience- no longer regain initiative faster while in stealth)

Grandmaste: Shadow’s Rejuvenation- Regenerate health while in stealth.
(Shadow’s Rejuvenation- No longer regenerate health while in stealth

Grandmaster: Venomous Aura- When you use a venom skill, you apply the effects to all nearby allies as well.
(no change)

Grandmaster: Resilience of Shadows- Stealth effects that you apply reduce incoming attack damage.
(no change)

To Turk include Thief Players: Part 2

Redesign- Trickery-

Adept: Kleptomaniac- Stealing gives you initiative.
(no change)

Master: Preparedness- Increases maximum initiative by 3.
(no change)

Grandmaster: Lead Attacks Increases damage per initiative.
(no longer increases damage per initiative)

Adept: Merciful Ambush- Stealth yourself and your target when reviving an ally.
(no change)

Adept: Instinctual Response- If you take damage greater than the health threshold in a single strike, you release feathers to blind nearby enemies and gain stealth.
(Instinctual Response- If you take damage greater than the health threshold in a single strike, you no longer gain stealth)

Adept: Uncatchable- Leave behind Caltrops when you dodge.
(No change)

Adept: Flanking Strikes- Increases damage when attacking a foe from behind or the side.
(Flanking Strikes- no longer increase damage when attacking a foe from behind or the side.

Adept: Thrill of the Crime- When you steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might, and swiftness for 10 seconds.
(Thrill of the Crime- When you steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might and swiftness for 5 seconds)

Adept: Long Reach- Increases the range on stealing.
(No change)

Master: Bountiful Theft- Stealing grants you and all nearby allies vigor. You rip boons from your target and grant them to nearby allies.
(Bountiful Theft- You rip boons from your target and grant them to nearby allies every 60 seconds)

Master: Trickster- Reduces recharge on tricks.
(No change)

Master: Initial Strike- Attacks with the first weapon-skill slot have a chance to regain initiative.
(No change)

Master: Ricochet- Pistol shots have a chance to bounce to an additional target. Pistol range is increased.
(No change)

Grandmaster: Hastened Replenishment- You receive initiative when using a heal skill.
(No change)

Grandmaster: Sleight of Hand- Stealing also dazes the target. Reduces the recharge of Steal.
(Sleight of Hand- Reduce the recharge of Steal every 60 seconds)

Grandmaster: Bewildering Ambush - Stealing also applies confusion.
(Bewildering Ambush- Stealing applies confusion every 60 seconds)

End

T raw.4658:

Calanthe.3857:

There also need to be a lot more ways to apply Revealed to enemies, because currently there are only two profession skills to do it.

I had a thief follow me as I trailed our zerg across half the map in EOTM. She kept trying to pick off the stragglers and, even with my Ranger Trapper build, I could not stop her. Super annoying and unbalanced. And thieves like this can take down your health to half in just a few hits.

I think I’ve identified the problem. Roll a thief and learn. Post a daily blog on you playing your thief.

I don’t know how to play Thief, but I had 2-3 other players near me constantly and we still couldn’t stop this kitten from attacking people at the end of the zerg. That is unbalanced.

DarkSyze:

Trickery can kill instantly

…

anet! send all of your employees for this urgent matter!

…. man …
Now I have to add all that to the nerf wish list…

And some of them I don’t get it. He’s changes are basically making some of the traits blank or without any effect.

Never mind, I clued in. Pay attention QQ’ers, DarkSyze get cuts straight to the point, he doesn’t sugar coat things in sweet tears – No, he gets straight down to business of reducing the thief to dust.

10/10, more QQ’ers need to make suggestions like these.

And congratulations on finally making it onto the Nerf Wish List, DarkSyze.

Your hard work and dedication over the past few weeks was outstanding. You even improved and began to provide bolded quotes of wisdom. Solid progress. I would suggest adding in poetry and metaphoric analogies to further improve your work. Overall though, well done!

Zero Day.2594:

…. man …
Now I have to add all that to the nerf wish list…

And some of them I don’t get it. He’s changes are basically making some of the traits blank or without any effect.

Never mind, I clued in. Pay attention QQ’ers, DarkSyze get cuts straight to the point, he doesn’t sugar coat things in sweet tears – No, he gets straight down to business of reducing the thief to dust.

10/10, more QQ’ers need to make suggestions like these.

And congratulations on finally making it onto the Nerf Wish List, DarkSyze.

Your hard work and dedication over the past few weeks was outstanding. You even improved and began to provide bolded quotes of wisdom. Solid progress. I would suggest adding in poetry and metaphoric analogies to further improve your work. Overall though, well done!

Thank You! Zero Day

I only want good things for Guild Wars 2- Thief Profession: that is all.

I like how Thief is the only forum that has a nerf wishlist. The salty tears are delicious as always.

stealth op?
log into ranger pew pew.
click 2
click 5
wait for shadow refuge to end
stomp
???
profit

just cuz you cant deal with thiefs doesnt mean that they are op. Try to kill medi guard as thief i dare you… there are classes that just cant be stomped by thief in 1v1 and you want to take his only fun “stealth” (cuz shadowsteps arent currently working) away

Mefiq.7039:

stealth op?
log into ranger pew pew.
click 3
click 5
wait for shadow refuge to end
stomp
???
profit

Time to make a Ranger nerf wishlist?

so i just read this guy’s trait changes. LOL what are traits even suppose to do if you remove their effects? and laughed at his thrill the crime trait changed for 5secs for each boon.

Thief has stealth/evades/ports/leaps/blinds because they are a 10k base hp class.

I’m not sure what the problem is, op.

Zero Day.2594:

…. man …
Now I have to add all that to the nerf wish list…

And some of them I don’t get it. He’s changes are basically making some of the traits blank or without any effect.

Never mind, I clued in. Pay attention QQ’ers, DarkSyze get cuts straight to the point, he doesn’t sugar coat things in sweet tears – No, he gets straight down to business of reducing the thief to dust.

10/10, more QQ’ers need to make suggestions like these.

And congratulations on finally making it onto the Nerf Wish List, DarkSyze.

Your hard work and dedication over the past few weeks was outstanding. You even improved and began to provide bolded quotes of wisdom. Solid progress. I would suggest adding in poetry and metaphoric analogies to further improve your work. Overall though, well done!

You miss burnfall. lol

yolo swaggins.2570:

You miss burnfall. lol

DarkSyze is by far the more entertaining troll. He is the only one I know, who has a friendly attitude while trolling.

What happened to Burnfall anyways? That guy always made me laugh.

Tbh when people don’t accept that perma stealth is no longer a thing (if you doubt that, roll a thief and try it), and then call playing a class to it’s strengths griefing, we’re never gonna persuade them otherwise.

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

…. man …
Now I have to add all that to the nerf wish list…

And some of them I don’t get it. He’s changes are basically making some of the traits blank or without any effect.

Never mind, I clued in. Pay attention QQ’ers, DarkSyze get cuts straight to the point, he doesn’t sugar coat things in sweet tears – No, he gets straight down to business of reducing the thief to dust.

10/10, more QQ’ers need to make suggestions like these.

And congratulations on finally making it onto the Nerf Wish List, DarkSyze.

Your hard work and dedication over the past few weeks was outstanding. You even improved and began to provide bolded quotes of wisdom. Solid progress. I would suggest adding in poetry and metaphoric analogies to further improve your work. Overall though, well done!

Thank You! Zero Day

I only want good things for Guild Wars 2- Thief Profession: that is all.

lol yes sure

good troll attempt but your rework is so kitten kind of gave it away mate… maybe better luck next time

THREE YEARS LATER

We are still talking about the same thing

The sad part is some of the people in this thread have thousands of hours, legendary weapons, platinum rank in WvW… and they still SUCK

L2P

Actually there is no hope for most of you instead of L2P can you finally UNINSTALL

Lol! Just read Darksyze’s “balance” changes that he proposed… I honestly can’t believe that he isn’t a troll at this point. No logical mind would have the audacity to claim earlier in this post that they don’t want nerfs, just changes, and then propose entire traits be simply deleted with nothing else given to replace them. That’s basically the very definition of nerfs. Darksyze, do yourself a favor and play a thief for once instead of posting nonsense on this forum.

Also, all these mentions of Burnfall are making me sad. I wish we had him around to piggy back off of Darksyze, would make these posts even more entertaining!

Darksyze have you played a thief?

Jugglemonkey.8741:

What happened to Burnfall anyways? That guy always made me laugh.

A very good question, that. I still think DarkSyze is Burnfall on another account. But, this is merely my personal paranoia speaking …

A thief that is built for running away is a thief that has no chance in hell in killing you if you’re a competent player with a brain.

Just leave him be and move on.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

A thief that is built for running away is a thief that has no chance in hell in killing you if you’re a competent player with a brain.

Just leave him be and move on.

But he keeps running away!!!!!

Guys, guys…

Perma-stealth was legit, we all lied to the QQ’ers. Though, they have fixed it once and for all this update:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-28-2015/first#post5036771

When the OP is out of the conversation early on, you know its all trololol. You can end the thread now.

Advent.6193:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

What happened to Burnfall anyways? That guy always made me laugh.

A very good question, that. I still think DarkSyze is Burnfall on another account. But, this is merely my personal paranoia speaking …

I am DarkSyze and this is my only account i have: that is all

Zero Day.2594:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

A thief that is built for running away is a thief that has no chance in hell in killing you if you’re a competent player with a brain.

Just leave him be and move on.

But he keeps running away!!!!!

---

Guys, guys…

Perma-stealth was legit, we all lied to the QQ’ers. Though, they have fixed it once and for all this update:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-28-2015/first#post5036771

I hope this is serious.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

What happened to Burnfall anyways? That guy always made me laugh.

This is the last thread he posted in. I think he got frustrated that thief wasn’t going to get nerfed just to make his life easier.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/sPvP-Thieves-gameplay-concerns-possible-solutions-merged/first

In World of Warcraft Rouges and Druid’s get PERMANENT stealth. You can be invisible until the sun goes supernova.

Endrance.1680:

In GW1 we had Assassins and they were equally annoying. Granted the didn’t stealth like the Thieves we have now, rather they had similar characteristics for heavy damage output and great evade. Beyond that there were skills that made them invulnerable and difficult to hit. I hated Sins in GW1 and I hate Thieves in GW2. They aren’t going anywhere and we can only hope for a nerf which will hopefully decrease the number of people playing such a cowardly, useless profession.

Proceed to bash me as you will forum posters. I frankly don’t care. Thieves are trash.

+1 for the whining OP. XD

It’s a tad bit hilarious that you hold such rancor and hate over a video game character. Calling a class trash is a sign of a bad player, which makes it more ironic. On a side note, I’d seek professional help for your obvious deep seated bitterness over a video game.

Been drinking the tears of anti-rogue players since World of Warcraft. Never get tired of seeing it.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Endrance.1680:

In GW1 we had Assassins and they were equally annoying. Granted the didn’t stealth like the Thieves we have now, rather they had similar characteristics for heavy damage output and great evade. Beyond that there were skills that made them invulnerable and difficult to hit. I hated Sins in GW1 and I hate Thieves in GW2. They aren’t going anywhere and we can only hope for a nerf which will hopefully decrease the number of people playing such a cowardly, useless profession.

Proceed to bash me as you will forum posters. I frankly don’t care. Thieves are trash.

+1 for the whining OP. XD

It’s a tad bit hilarious that you hold such rancor and hate over a video game character. Calling a class trash is a sign of a bad player, which makes it more ironic. On a side note, I’d seek professional help for your obvious deep seated bitterness over a video game.

Been drinking the tears of anti-rogue players since World of Warcraft. Never get tired of seeing it.

Man, I don’t have puffy curly hair like that, but that is my smile when I read QQ posts and enjoy the tears…

Zero Day.2594:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Endrance.1680:

In GW1 we had Assassins and they were equally annoying. Granted the didn’t stealth like the Thieves we have now, rather they had similar characteristics for heavy damage output and great evade. Beyond that there were skills that made them invulnerable and difficult to hit. I hated Sins in GW1 and I hate Thieves in GW2. They aren’t going anywhere and we can only hope for a nerf which will hopefully decrease the number of people playing such a cowardly, useless profession.

Proceed to bash me as you will forum posters. I frankly don’t care. Thieves are trash.

+1 for the whining OP. XD

It’s a tad bit hilarious that you hold such rancor and hate over a video game character. Calling a class trash is a sign of a bad player, which makes it more ironic. On a side note, I’d seek professional help for your obvious deep seated bitterness over a video game.

Been drinking the tears of anti-rogue players since World of Warcraft. Never get tired of seeing it.

Man, I don’t have puffy curly hair like that, but that is my smile when I read QQ posts and enjoy the tears…

Ikr? Even if I lose a fight, if I can generate some QQ, I feel I’ve been successful. <3

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Zero Day.2594:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Endrance.1680:

In GW1 we had Assassins and they were equally annoying. Granted the didn’t stealth like the Thieves we have now, rather they had similar characteristics for heavy damage output and great evade. Beyond that there were skills that made them invulnerable and difficult to hit. I hated Sins in GW1 and I hate Thieves in GW2. They aren’t going anywhere and we can only hope for a nerf which will hopefully decrease the number of people playing such a cowardly, useless profession.

Proceed to bash me as you will forum posters. I frankly don’t care. Thieves are trash.

+1 for the whining OP. XD

It’s a tad bit hilarious that you hold such rancor and hate over a video game character. Calling a class trash is a sign of a bad player, which makes it more ironic. On a side note, I’d seek professional help for your obvious deep seated bitterness over a video game.

Been drinking the tears of anti-rogue players since World of Warcraft. Never get tired of seeing it.

Man, I don’t have puffy curly hair like that, but that is my smile when I read QQ posts and enjoy the tears…

Ikr? Even if I lose a fight, if I can generate some QQ, I feel I’ve been successful. <3

:D stealing that gif as well

permastealth doesnt work

King Noob IV.3560:

permastealth doesnt work

Not after April 28th patch! They stopped it in its’ tracks. If anyone QQ’s about premastealth just link them this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-28-2015/first#post5036771

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

Salamander.2504:

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

ANOTHER ONE.
My GOD, people are actually learning! It’s astounding! <3

’Tis a beautiful thing, when a non-stealther learns why Thieves are so heavily invested in stealth options. (begins clapping)

Aberrant.6749:

Dawdler.8521:

Kousetsu.1627:

L2P

-Signed all GW2 Thieves.

Too bad there is nothing to learn. There is no counter-play to stealth other than wildly flailing your weapon into thin air (which you do either way).

Not that Anet is ever going to fix anything, this kitten has been broken since release and Anet has always made it very clear that they love the Thief. So no need to worry about it.

Wat. You can counter every stealth a thief can do without reveal other than with blinding powder.

C&D-> Dodge
BP->HS dodge cc or reflect cc (eng sheild 4 does both these things)
SR-> cc

Hmmm seems like thieves are weak vs cc and they lack stability… it’s almost as if it was designed that way >.>

Ok say you mess up and they stealth… don’t just stand there like a grazing cow. There are ways of moving to make backstabs harder to land. At worst you can use about face and you’ll have a reasonable chance at them just doing a weak frontstab.

You can also punish them for when they come in for a backstab (aoe such as bombs or necro marks work well).

If it’s a pistol thief you can reflect it (it won’t destealth them and they’ll often hit themselves 5-10 times).

So there are things you can do to prevent them from stealthing and ways to punish them even after you’ve messed up and they’ve stealthed. There was no need to even add in the no tell 2,000 range reveal skill stuff, but there is that too. This sort of stuff is what people are talking about when they say L2P.

thieves love saying l2p to everything instead of putting themselves in other profession’s spots

thief is currently uncounterable unless the thief is a complete moron

sword pistol = blind daze shadowstep spam
use shield against dagger thief and you still get backstabbed as block doesnt make BS go on cooldown
d/p= perma blind and stealth thief basically a one sided battle
why exactly should everyone else run purely defensive builds just to fight thieves instead of thieves being balanced to everyone else’s level

if thieves are so skilled they shouldnt have nothing to worry about on equal playing field

Salamander.2504:

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

well why not give ranger ele and engineer initiative system and stealth skills too

the reason thieves are squishy is the same reason everyone else have Berserker gear even engineer end up at 10-11k hp in serker gear

Rezzet.3614:

Salamander.2504:

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

well why not give ranger ele and engineer initiative system and stealth skills too

the reason thieves are squishy is the same reason everyone else have Berserker gear even engineer end up at 10-11k hp in serker gear

Engineers start with higher base health than the Thief. Please show me ANY build Zerker or otherwise where the engineer has 10-11k base health.

Please do not just make things up.

Salamander.2504:

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

No sarcasm, or witty remarks, from me.

Finally someone who actually took the time to play the class they think is op/cheese/super annoying and see if it really is that easy/op. you sir get an internet cookie.

Rezzet.3614:

thieves love saying l2p to everything instead of putting themselves in other profession’s spots

Salamander.2504:

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

I LOVE finding new thief players. Nothing makes me more giddy then finding a player who just started on their thief thinking they are going to PWNNOOBSOMGBBQSAUCE

After a good beating i tend to then teach them how to play thief, and they all say the exact same thing:

“This is so hard”

Rezzet.3614:

thief is currently uncounterable unless the thief is a complete moron

sword pistol = blind daze shadowstep spam
use shield against dagger thief and you still get backstabbed as block doesnt make BS go on cooldown
d/p= perma blind and stealth thief basically a one sided battle
why exactly should everyone else run purely defensive builds just to fight thieves instead of thieves being balanced to everyone else’s level

if thieves are so skilled they shouldnt have nothing to worry about on equal playing field

Can you please make a thief go to solo roam in WvW and make a movie how you own different classes played by descent players that know what they are doing then come back here and post again k tnx bye(in b4 a rain of tears).

Rezzet.3614:

Salamander.2504:

My unbiased opinion:

I main a guard, and stealth always irritated me. Whenever a thief would stealth and run, I’d call cheese. How irritating, right?

Two days ago I made a thief, and I’ve already realized how essential stealth is. Thieves are trading a lot to have the ability to stealth: they are a melee class with low health, low armor, and abysmal condi clear. Whereas rangers and guardians can go invincible for a few seconds to take the pressure off, thieves have stealth (but can die quite easily in stealth). Most of their weapon sets are useless in the current meta, so evades cant make up for it (I’m looking at sw/d).

If they are running from you and are about to die, either: (1) you outnumber them, in which case, who wouldn’t run?; and (2) they can’t kill you in a 1v1, but then why should you be able to kill a thief 100%? Shouldn’t it be 50% in a balanced game? They are a zerker class, after all. Running=draw=balanced.

Add to that: no thieves use speed/traveler runes, which means if they want to keep up their famous mobility in or out of stealth, they need to be spending initiative, dodges, or utility cooldowns. Those all need to be balanced to maintain mobility but also be ready for a fight.

So coming from an entirely different class and just playing thief for 2 days, I have to say: stop complaining about stealth. It’s not cheese.

well why not give ranger ele and engineer initiative system and stealth skills too

the reason thieves are squishy is the same reason everyone else have Berserker gear even engineer end up at 10-11k hp in serker gear

I’m not sure why you would want other classes to use the initiative system; its extremely difficult to use properly, and not necessarily an advantage. As I’ve said, I’ve only been playing thief for a few days now, but the “spamfest” you might think it is, is not the case. Balancing initiative and knowing what skill to use when is not trivial. You can frequently find yourself unable to use an important skill simply because you don’t have enough initiative. I’ve never auto-attacked more frequently than as a thief, and that tells you all you need to know. All I can say is go make a thief and PvP unranked for a day: your time will be better spent than mashing it up on the forums.

And as already stated, it is impossible for engineers to have 10-11k hp in zerker gear, because their base HP is 15k.

And: Aw shucks, thanks for all your support guys.

All thief thinks stealth is their only way to mitigate damage: and that’s the problem.

They forget that they have access to a lot of Vigor (and if they trait to acrobatics, even a dodge refill on dodge lol) which grants them the ability to dodge a lot more than any other profession, and evasion work son 98% of the attacks in the game, which mitigate all damage;
They have access to a lot of blind (those who uses D/P, probably the most popular weapon set in PvP) which again mitigate all the damage from 1 attack (easy to reapply given the smokefield duration);
They also have access to many mobility skill, which can warp them from a place to another, granting both escape or gap close, many of them beeing stunbreakers, making most of the CC useless on thief.

Said that, there should be a distinction between WvW (where stealth is overly abused by both condi and power builds) and PvP (where the up said mitigation system are more used than stealth, given the fact that point cap is 1 of the major aspect of this mode, and the size/shape of the maps themselfs), I would just higher again the revealed debuff only in WvW (up to 7-8 seconds) which would only hurt those who build their char arround stealth mechanism, thus discouraging low risk “high reward” gameplay in those maps.