Guild Wars 2

Lately I’ve seen more and more thieves in WvW using Cloak and Dagger on walls to stay permanently stealthed. Since you can hit the wall while stealthed and not get the “revealed” debuff, you can stack up to 20 seconds of stealth at a time, and with the right traits you never run out of initiative.

What I’m curious about is if people think this is a legitimate tactic. This lets a single player (even AFK) cause a keep to stay permanently contested, or sometimes stealth with a group inside a tower for hours until it empties and they can ninja it. What’s your ake on this?

With culling, stealth can be permanent.

What greyblue is describing is unfortunately true.

Enemy tower/keep walls do not apply the revealed debuff even if you’re supposedly breaking stealth to C&D the wall. Culling becomes irrelevant; the Thief never leaves stealth.

This is the relevant bug/exploit thread, complete with video demonstration: http://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/bugs/Perma-stealth-via-Cloak-Dagger-vs-Wall/
(PS: Before you say the video demonstrates culling abuse, watch further!)

Weapons with auto-attack chains can be used to check for hiding Thieves, but you’d need nothing less than a 10 man group to forcefully evict a skilled Thief. This is clearly not working as intended.

What you see in that video is not bug,neither exploit.That’s how C&D works.
It’s 100% intended and Thief doesn’t stack Stealth,just chain sustain it.Same can be done
with D/P.

ZLE.8293:

What you see in that video is not bug,neither exploit.That’s how C&D works.
It’s 100% intended and Thief doesn’t stack Stealth,just chain sustain it.Same can be done
with D/P.

Watch the whole video.

Legit as tactic? The wall thing looks a bit like a side effect that wasn’t intended.

Sin.4902:

ZLE.8293:

What you see in that video is not bug,neither exploit.That’s how C&D works.
It’s 100% intended and Thief doesn’t stack Stealth,just chain sustain it.Same can be done
with D/P.

Watch the whole video.

Hmm,i did!Indeed it stacks roughly 1 sec per Stealth(it showed only at the end of the video).That is not the case in Heart of The Mists.I must test it when i get back from work and if i can’t use it in my benefit i will agree with you that it must be fixed :P

ZLE.8293:

Sin.4902:

ZLE.8293:

What you see in that video is not bug,neither exploit.That’s how C&D works.
It’s 100% intended and Thief doesn’t stack Stealth,just chain sustain it.Same can be done
with D/P.

Watch the whole video.

Hmm,i did!Indeed it stacks roughly 1 sec per Stealth(it showed only at the end of the video).That is not the case in Heart of The Mists.I must test it when i get back from work and if i can’t use it in my benefit i will agree with you that it must be fixed :P

By the end, he built up to 17s sec of stealth. Cloak and dagger during stealth didn’t break/reveal buff. That’s the exploit.

Edit: Are there walls in heart of the mists? It’s using cloak and dagger on the wall that makes the exploit works.

Ye i notice ,but it must have something to do with WvW,cuz in Heart of The Mists C&D(while giving 4 sec Stealth) resets the old Stealth.
Edit:No walls,only Golems,NPC’S,Svanir,Chieftan,Blue Lord e.t.c.
But i will go in empty Legacy of the Foefire and try on the enemy base wall as soon as i can .

I’ve personally seen it works (sort of) on sieges when we are attacking a tower. I spotted a shadow refuge field after a fellow player downed, so I suspected a backstab thief was in the area & alerted everyone. We rained AOE around and finally forced the thief to reveal himself near the catapults, seemed to try stay hidden & picked off siege users one by one.

Yep, this exploit needs to be fixed.

definetly a bug that must be fixed.

loneknight.8425:

I’ve personally seen it works (sort of) on sieges when we are attacking a tower. I spotted a shadow refuge field after a fellow player downed, so I suspected a backstab thief was in the area & alerted everyone. We rained AOE around and finally forced the thief to reveal himself near the catapults, seemed to try stay hidden & picked off siege users one by one.

Yep, this exploit needs to be fixed.

What you experienced is not an exploit. It’s completely different than what the issue is here.

Columba.9730:

With culling, stealth can be permanent.

No, it can’t, so stop spreading ignorance in a game already full of people ignorant of how exactly stealth and culling work in this game (including yourself, it would seem).

Yap, it’s a bug that mat be fix ASAP before the community get another nerf thief stealth thread up .

Defiantly not intended. There is a cap on stealth so it’s not very practical normally but for hiding in an enemy keep to rez a dead Mesmer it’s pretty bad. That’s about it.

Stiv.1820:

Defiantly not intended. There is a cap on stealth so it’s not very practical normally but for hiding in an enemy keep to rez a dead Mesmer it’s pretty bad. That’s about it.

This, and Anet will probably patch it in due time.

It only works on walls. Anything that will actually take damage when you hit it will not trigger this glitch. Gates will apply revealed as normal.

would be no issue if you could forfully remote dead scout mesmer. or atleast have corpse timeout after let say 5 minutes

I would like everyone to realize there is a cap to stealth still. If you keep using CnD on the wall long enough you will receive diminishing returns. Seems like they meant for thieves to be able to achieve extended forms of stealth.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Seems like they meant for thieves to be able to achieve extended forms of stealth.

Not like that imo.This thing has to go.Majority of the people who QQ for nerf are ignorant enough about the reality of Thief,so giving them another theme to exaggerate is the least we want.

My biggest question is: Does it work on trees?

Definitely sounds not legit, and it will be probably adressed in future patchs.

Sad thing is I was being somewhat kind with spamming C/D in that video…wasn’t timing it or anything really, just hit the button occasionally.

But yea, fairly large bug currently, else where it’s fine, just in keeps..

Lohanna is the one who brought it to my attention (that’s who i’m talking with in the video) and explained how to do it.

Xsorus.2507:

Sad thing is I was being somewhat kind with spamming C/D in that video…wasn’t timing it or anything really, just hit the button occasionally.

But yea, fairly large bug currently, else where it’s fine, just in keeps..

Lohanna is the one who brought it to my attention (that’s who i’m talking with in the video) and explained how to do it.

I’ve been doing it for months. Shared it with a few friends. Didn’t see anything about it surface until we started forming groups and using it to cap. Never really saw it as an exploit though. Still don’t see it as one.

greyblue.4962:

Lately I’ve seen more and more thieves in WvW using Cloak and Dagger on walls to stay permanently stealthed. Since you can hit the wall while stealthed and not get the “revealed” debuff, you can stack up to 20 seconds of stealth at a time, and with the right traits you never run out of initiative.

What I’m curious about is if people think this is a legitimate tactic. This lets a single player (even AFK) cause a keep to stay permanently contested, or sometimes stealth with a group inside a tower for hours until it empties and they can ninja it. What’s your ake on this?

If you’re green or blue, you can CnD the houses right outside red’s keep and it works just like CnD walls.

I’m going to keep using it until Anet tells me otherwise.

skupuz.6940:

I’m going to keep using it until Anet tells me otherwise.

You mean like how they told those snowflake exploiters it was exploiting before they banned them?

Professor Sensei.2941:

Xsorus.2507:

Sad thing is I was being somewhat kind with spamming C/D in that video…wasn’t timing it or anything really, just hit the button occasionally.

But yea, fairly large bug currently, else where it’s fine, just in keeps..

Lohanna is the one who brought it to my attention (that’s who i’m talking with in the video) and explained how to do it.

I’ve been doing it for months. Shared it with a few friends. Didn’t see anything about it surface until we started forming groups and using it to cap. Never really saw it as an exploit though. Still don’t see it as one.

It allows you to CnD to your heart content with no reveal buff allowing you to stay perma stealth…Every other Object in the game would give you the reveal buff and make you noticed by people.

It’s a bloody exploit of a broken mechanic, You can sugar coat it all ya want.

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Doomdesire.9365:

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Hey man.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Hey man.

Hey, did you enjoy abusing exploits to take our towers?

Doomdesire.9365:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Hey man.

Hey, did you enjoy abusing exploits to take our towers?

Exploits?

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Hey man.

Hey, did you enjoy abusing exploits to take our towers?

Exploits?

Hmm, the use of unintended bug in mechanics of a game = Exploit

Not reporting it, and just telling a “few” friends just pretty much answer the question on if it was an exploit, If you’re keeping it a secret that much, you know something was up.

Xsorus.2507:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Hey man.

Hey, did you enjoy abusing exploits to take our towers?

Exploits?

Hmm, the use of unintended bug in mechanics of a game = Exploit

Not reporting it, and just telling a “few” friends just pretty much answer the question on if it was an exploit, If you’re keeping it a secret that much, you know something was up.

I hardly see this as something for a player like myself to take as a big deal. I found this months ago when I was level 30 on my first toon. I was chasing a guardian inside of the OL keep and they used alt+f4 to bail on the fight. I was about to CnD them for the finish but obviously they disconnected. Suddenly I gained stealth! OH MY I STRUCK GOLD! So I used it again. Well gosh darn I gained my seconds of stealth and no revealed debuff.

That happened MONTHS ago. All I did was use a skill when standing on a wall. Nothing more and nothing less. This isn’t some great exploit to cry over. This has been in the game since beta testing. The only reason why it surfaced as an issue is because organized groups are using it to counter zergs.

I support this “bug” or whatever you want to call it. Maybe they can add to the diminishing returns on stealth to cut down on the usage of it but it is giving the power back to the small groups.

This would break away from the zerg mentality, making servers use smaller teams to stay in towers to make sure their tower doesn’t get capped. From the way things in WvW has been playing out is zerg zerg zerg. The bigger the zerg the better the server apparently. This kills that playstyle, or at least cripples is. Does this not give smaller organized groups the power to combat a zerg?

It`s an exploit, stop trying to defend it. Between things like this, the 1button kill macros, culling and many other “bug” abuses its no wonder most people started hating thieves.

Doomdesire.9365:

Professor Sensei.2941:

Doomdesire.9365:

Can we please get a developer response on this thread. I would like to know, because there is a group doing it, and will only stop if they get a developer response, despite having been reported by nearly everyone(including their own server)

Hey man.

Hey, did you enjoy abusing exploits to take our towers?

There is no manual nor does the game explain to us how the reveal debuff works (other than gw2 wiki). While you may be right that this is not intended, we need to wait to hear from the Dev before pointing fingers and calling out people for exploiting.

Kaleygh.1524:

It`s an exploit, stop trying to defend it. Between things like this, the 1button kill macros, culling and many other “bug” abuses its no wonder most people started hating thieves.

It is not an exploit…the same result can be achieved by hitting the door.

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

It`s an exploit, stop trying to defend it. Between things like this, the 1button kill macros, culling and many other “bug” abuses its no wonder most people started hating thieves.

It is not an exploit…the same result can be achieved by hitting the door.

CnD – Stab your foe and vanish in stealth, leaving them vulnerable.
I think “foe” means a player or a monster, not a door, wall, trees, rocks or whatever you may think of. I cannot understand how you can think its reasonable (or intended) to get 15+ seconds of stealth by hitting an inanimate object.

Kaleygh.1524:

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

It`s an exploit, stop trying to defend it. Between things like this, the 1button kill macros, culling and many other “bug” abuses its no wonder most people started hating thieves.

It is not an exploit…the same result can be achieved by hitting the door.

CnD – Stab your foe and vanish in stealth, leaving them vulnerable.
I think “foe” means a player or a monster, not a door, wall, trees, rocks or whatever you may think of. I cannot understand how you can think its reasonable (or intended) to get 15+ seconds of stealth by hitting an inanimate object.

Oh please….explain to me why Warrior’s 100 blades only hit me for 9 times and not 100 times…

How is this related in any way to 100b? Last i checked 100b was working as intended and was not giving any unfair advantage to the player using it in a way the devs did not predict.

Kaleygh.1524:

How is this related in any way to 100b? Last i checked 100b was working as intended and was not giving any unfair advantage to the player using it in a way the devs did not predict.

Related because you took the tool tip literally. The “foe” in CnD can be anything, a tree/plant (Sylvari’s elite), Npc, doors, walls, mobs, wtf have you as long as you can target it and hit it.

I’m not “ok” with it not procing the reveal debuff, but seriously, if you time it just right you can achieve the same results by hitting CnD at 3.5 into stealth.

Working as intend in my opinion until informed by Anet otherwise.

Ok, i`ll put it another way so you can understand what i mean.
I`m playing a necro. Let`s say i can stack conditions on a wall. It is not possible, but lets pretend, because its the same thing, using a skill on a wall. Me and/or others stack 25 bleeds and other conditions on it and i use the skill epidemic to spread it and kill the targets close to that wall. That would give me an unfair advantage. Do you honestly think of that as being “ok” ?

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

How is this related in any way to 100b? Last i checked 100b was working as intended and was not giving any unfair advantage to the player using it in a way the devs did not predict.

Related because you took the tool tip literally. The “foe” in CnD can be anything, a tree/plant (Sylvari’s elite), Npc, doors, walls, mobs, wtf have you as long as you can target it and hit it.

I’m not “ok” with it not procing the reveal debuff, but seriously, if you time it just right you can achieve the same results by hitting CnD at 3.5 into stealth.

Working as intend in my opinion until informed by Anet otherwise.

Except these guys were stacking 20 seconds of stealth, reviving their mesmer friend a porting everyone in. AoE spam on the body did nothing when you have 3 thieves doing it. There was absolutely zero indication. No blinding powder, refuge, D/P clouds, no purple marker beneath your feet.

Also, you can tell if someone is waiting till it reaches 0 and hitting it again. It shows the purple marker beneath them, and once culling it fixed, it should show the player himself.

Kaleygh.1524:

Ok, i`ll put it another way so you can understand what i mean.
I`m playing a necro. Let`s say i can stack conditions on a wall. It is not possible, but lets pretend, because its the same thing, using a skill on a wall. Me and/or others stack 25 bleeds and other conditions on it and i use the skill epidemic to spread it and kill the targets close to that wall. That would give me an unfair advantage. Do you honestly think of that as being “ok” ?

You can’t but I can, so I’m going to keep doing it until Anet says it is an exploit…

Wall/Door isn’t the only way to get infinite stealth….

2 thieves can infinite stealth up to 5 within a radius via blast combo (black powder then cluster bomb)
1 thief can infinite stealth via black powder/HS

We can already do it, the CnD wall/door is the lazy man way of doing it.

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

It`s an exploit, stop trying to defend it. Between things like this, the 1button kill macros, culling and many other “bug” abuses its no wonder most people started hating thieves.

It is not an exploit…the same result can be achieved by hitting the door.

not 100% sure but i don’t think this would work on a door. i think what gives the revealed debuff is doing damage from stealth not the use of an ability. so hitting the door would cause a little damage and give the revealed debuff.

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

Ok, i`ll put it another way so you can understand what i mean.
I`m playing a necro. Let`s say i can stack conditions on a wall. It is not possible, but lets pretend, because its the same thing, using a skill on a wall. Me and/or others stack 25 bleeds and other conditions on it and i use the skill epidemic to spread it and kill the targets close to that wall. That would give me an unfair advantage. Do you honestly think of that as being “ok” ?

You can’t but I can, so I’m going to keep doing it until Anet says it is an exploit…

Wall/Door isn’t the only way to get infinite stealth….

2 thieves can infinite stealth up to 5 within a radius via blast combo (black powder then cluster bomb)
1 thief can infinite stealth via black powder/HS

We can already do it, the CnD wall/door is the lazy man way of doing it.

It’s an exploit… if you decide to, be prepared to go the way of the snowflake exploiters.

Avigrus.2871:

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

Ok, i`ll put it another way so you can understand what i mean.
I`m playing a necro. Let`s say i can stack conditions on a wall. It is not possible, but lets pretend, because its the same thing, using a skill on a wall. Me and/or others stack 25 bleeds and other conditions on it and i use the skill epidemic to spread it and kill the targets close to that wall. That would give me an unfair advantage. Do you honestly think of that as being “ok” ?

You can’t but I can, so I’m going to keep doing it until Anet says it is an exploit…

Wall/Door isn’t the only way to get infinite stealth….

2 thieves can infinite stealth up to 5 within a radius via blast combo (black powder then cluster bomb)
1 thief can infinite stealth via black powder/HS

We can already do it, the CnD wall/door is the lazy man way of doing it.

It’s an exploit… if you decide to, be prepared to go the way of the snowflake exploiters.

There have been multiple threads on this issue for the past 2-3 days. I will take Anet non response to this issue as “undecided.”

Kaleygh.1524:

It`s an exploit, stop trying to defend it. Between things like this, the 1button kill macros, culling and many other “bug” abuses its no wonder most people started hating thieves.

People will always hate thieves. People that cannot stealth, and do not play professions that stealth, tend to find the entire Thief stealthing playstyle problematic. So they go around saying " Nerf it in this condition, nerf it in that condition….. " Listen to these people Cloak n Dagger will last 1 second have a 3 Minute cool down… break when the thief is attacked by an a of e or DoT, use up an elite slot, and cost 30 skill points.

skupuz.6940:

Avigrus.2871:

skupuz.6940:

Kaleygh.1524:

Ok, i`ll put it another way so you can understand what i mean.
I`m playing a necro. Let`s say i can stack conditions on a wall. It is not possible, but lets pretend, because its the same thing, using a skill on a wall. Me and/or others stack 25 bleeds and other conditions on it and i use the skill epidemic to spread it and kill the targets close to that wall. That would give me an unfair advantage. Do you honestly think of that as being “ok” ?

You can’t but I can, so I’m going to keep doing it until Anet says it is an exploit…

Wall/Door isn’t the only way to get infinite stealth….

2 thieves can infinite stealth up to 5 within a radius via blast combo (black powder then cluster bomb)
1 thief can infinite stealth via black powder/HS

We can already do it, the CnD wall/door is the lazy man way of doing it.

It’s an exploit… if you decide to, be prepared to go the way of the snowflake exploiters.

There have been multiple threads on this issue for the past 2-3 days. I will take Anet non response to this issue as “undecided.”

Just like the snowflake glitch…
Wait no, they never told the people who knew it was blatantly a glitch that it was one until they banned people.

How is this any related to the snowflake glitch? The snowflake glitch provided imbalance in the market that players were taking advantage of to make money. What money is being made here? Please do not reference something that does not relate to the “issue” at hand, even though it is only being made an issue from thieve protesters it seems.