Guild Wars 2

Steal as it currently exists is a decent class mechanic but its just so. . . random. While many stolen skills are very useful the one-off nature of the current system makes them more of an afterthought to traited Steal effects like Mug or Bountiful Theft.

So how can stolen skills play a bigger role in Steal?

Add a pocket.
When a thief Steals the skill goes into an F2 skill slot, the F2 skill would have its own independent cooldown equal to the cooldown of Steal, this cooldown would be reset when a new skill was successfully stolen and the stolen skill would be reusable until the thief uses Steal again, replacing the current skill or changes zones.

Now obviously no change should be made that could drastically alter class balance in PvP activities so I’ll take a moment to address some potential balance shifts.

Actually there are none,
Because stealing would replace the current F2 stolen skill, holding on to a skill or “skill hording” would require that Steal not be used and thus sacrificing any utility provided by it in exchange for the utility of the stolen skill, so my suggestion removes the need to “burn off” stolen skills to use Steal again and it lets you choose to use a stolen skill repeatedly until, It is no longer needed\wanted, or you need\want to use Steal.
With only one skill slot there is no change to how Steal and its subsequent stolen skills would be used in ether PvP or PvE other than the fact that Thieves could make strategic decisions about holding on to a particular skill for future use.

I like the idea as this would make steal more than just a offensive shadow step that you use to get to a victim and forget about the ability that you got.
Another way they could make steal have more impact is make a trait that alters what the stolen skills do (much like a guardian can trait his virtues to give boons on activation). So a mesmer stolen skill could also cure all conditions from you or the elementalist ice shard could become a single target projectile that in addition to chill also applies x stacks of vulnerability or something like that, just making the skills more usefull

How does this differ from the current implementation? You state that on a subsequent steal, the F2 skill would get overridden with the new stolen skill, therefore making the change be nothing more than a visualization of the skill cooldown and another required button to use the stolen skill? I agree that a cooldown timer would be nice while holding a skill bundle, but I don’t see any real use to separate the abilities like this. Even an argument that you don’t have to spend a ~second using the stolen skill seems weird as we have sufficient time to waste it away while being forced into stealth.

nice idea. Sometimes im forced to use a skill when I dont want too so I can mug.

Deathspike.1870:

How does this differ from the current implementation? You state that on a subsequent steal, the F2 skill would get overridden with the new stolen skill, therefore making the change be nothing more than a visualization of the skill cooldown and another required button to use the stolen skill? I agree that a cooldown timer would be nice while holding a skill bundle, but I don’t see any real use to separate the abilities like this. Even an argument that you don’t have to spend a ~second using the stolen skill seems weird as we have sufficient time to waste it away while being forced into stealth.

I think its a great suggestion, or even just being able to right click the f1 icon to remove the stolen ability. More often then not i use steal for shadow step or as an emergency heal and have no interest in the stolen ability but it has to be used before i can reuse steal again.
We are talking about 1sec here, we’re playing a class where every second counts.

edit:
Another idea could be to add a store function via f2, allowing you to store the item and use steal for its traited purposes while being able to hold onto stolen abilities to use when you want, not when you want your steal ability again. Coupled with right click to remove stolen item. be a huge buff to steal.
eg. When you steal, item appears in f1 slot, you can press f2 to store the item so you can reuse steal, sequential uses of steal would steal nothing until f2 was used, allowing you to use it for more combat oriented purposes. Right clicking either icon would remove the stolen item. You could even add f3 and f4 to store up to 3 items.

Don’t get me wrong; I agree on having a cooldown visible for the steal behind the stolen ability and I wouldn’t mind for a way to get rid of a stolen skill without having to use it, but changing the implementation to force users to use a second skill button to use a stolen skill is strange. I use all of the stolen skills because all of them are useful, I honestly don’t want another button for it.

One scenario, in the current system, you have your favourite Skull Fear and your Steal is ready to use again. But now you got stun and standing in the middle of a bunch of AoE spells. In this situation you have no option with the current system but with the suggestion you will have an option to shadowstep out by using Steal without having Stolen-item block your Steal.

Just as MyCondolences.8172 said, wasting a skill is a waste but wasting time to waste that skill is even worst.

Deathspike.1870:

How does this differ from the current implementation? You state that on a subsequent steal, the F2 skill would get overridden with the new stolen skill, therefore making the change be nothing more than a visualization of the skill cooldown and another required button to use the stolen skill? I agree that a cooldown timer would be nice while holding a skill bundle, but I don’t see any real use to separate the abilities like this. Even an argument that you don’t have to spend a ~second using the stolen skill seems weird as we have sufficient time to waste it away while being forced into stealth.

I’m sorry about this,
I didn’t really drive home the most important part of my proposal.

I said:
“the stolen skill would remain available until the thief uses Steal again”

I should have said:
“the stolen skill would be reusable until the thief uses Steal again”

The idea being that you could hold on to your favorite stolen skill for repeated use.

OP edited for clarity

Some classes already complain that the stolen skills are better than their own skills. They won’t appreciate thieves using them again and again.

GameVeight.2745:

I should have said:
“the stolen skill would be reusable until the thief uses Steal again”

The idea being that you could hold on to your favorite stolen skill for repeated use.

OP edited for clarity

Imagine using Fear infinite times…let the QQ begins.

*EDIT: To clarify what I’m responding to.

Hmmmmmm….. Would require a change in steals from mesmer,ranger and maybe necro then. Solid idea though. I like it.

Would like to see more of a variety of skills when stealing as well.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Imagine using Fear infinite times…let the QQ begins.

The F2 skill would have its own cooldown equal to that of Steal, technically it would be no different than stealing from the same target over and over.

Examples:
1. Steal Skull Fear from necro
2. use Skull Fear
3. wait for steal to cooldown(minimum 21sec)
4. goto 1.

In my proposal it goes something like this.
1. Steal Skull Fear from necro
2. use Skull Fear
3. wait for Skull Fear to cooldown(minimum 21sec)
4. goto 2.

GameVeight.2745:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Imagine using Fear infinite times…let the QQ begins.

The F2 skill would have its own cooldown equal to that of Steal, technically it would be no different than stealing from the same target over and over.

Examples:
1. Steal Skull Fear from necro
2. use Skull Fear
3. wait for steal to cooldown(minimum 21sec)
4. goto 1.

In my proposal it goes something like this.
1. Steal Skull Fear from necro
2. use Skull Fear
3. wait for Skull Fear to cooldown(minimum 21sec)
4. goto 2.

Steal has too many traits tied to it for this to be a useful change.

Don’t get me wrong, you’re suggestion would be interesting, but a very minor buff. Steal is always a gap closer, which can be very important. Additionally, it can apply poison, do some damage and a heal, regenerate initiative, trigger might/fury/swiftness, steal boons, etc etc etc. The CD for each F2 skills would have to be shorter than steal to truly make it worth it outside of some niche situations, and that’s just not realistic for some of the more useful stolen items.

GameVeight.2745:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Imagine using Fear infinite times…let the QQ begins.

The F2 skill would have its own cooldown equal to that of Steal, technically it would be no different than stealing from the same target over and over.

So why even store it? If I can steal from the same target over and over, why don’t I just do that and only wait for one cooldown instead of two?

Having its own cooldown doesn’t change the fact that I can still use it infinite number of times.

evilapprentice.6379:

Steal has too many traits tied to it for this to be a useful change.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there Steal in its current form is more about the actual action of stealing and the stolen skills are a minor afterthought.

evilapprentice.6379:

you’re suggestion would be interesting, but a very minor buff.
Don’t get me wrong, Steal is always a gap closer, which can be very important. Additionally, it can apply poison, do some damage and a heal, regenerate initiative, trigger might/fury/swiftness, steal boons, etc etc etc. The CD for each F2 skills would have to be shorter than steal to truly make it worth it outside of some niche situations, and that’s just not realistic for some of the more useful stolen items.

The Devs seem to like taking baby steps in the right direction rather than potently taking leaps in the wrong one. I think of this suggestion more as a simple change that could provide a more flexible jumping off point for future changes than the current system.

I did think about expounding on some stolen skill changes in my original post, but I decided that presenting something that wouldn’t require any major changes to balance would be better received both by the community and the Devs.

I like this idea. I think they had an idea with steal, but somehow it never became really.. cool. It’s mostly a nice step in its current state.

Most classes have really useful F1-F4 skills and the class revolves around it, but for thief it’s kinda meh, unless you really trait for it.

In a previous post I even went further as to suggest to have F1-F4 with different items stolen with different effects, similar to the guardian’s special abilities.

Lady Minuit.3186:

• Give them more than just F1 skill. Add F2, F3, F4. I think all classes should have F1 to F4 skills.
  People suggested venoms, but instead you could have variants of stealing with different effect or specific things you steal.
  F1: steal a common object (same as current F1)
  F2: steal a weapon that grants you an attack buff (Might, Fury or Retaliation)
  F3: steal an item that protects you (Aegis, Protection or Regeneration)
  F4: steal an item that gives you mobility (Stability, Vigor or Swiftness + Stealth)
  Balance as necessary.

Well maybe it’s too OP, but either way, I think they need to make something cooler with steal.. especially if they are going to nerf everything else.

So, I’d vote for your idea at least.

Each skill would have to have a CD relative to how powerful the skill was – but I think I love this idea.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

So why even store it? If I can steal from the same target over and over, why don’t I just do that and only wait for one cooldown instead of two?

You wouldn’t have to wait for two cooldowns the F2 cooldown would reset when a new skill was successfully stolen, from a balance perspective this is no different than the current system where you wait for Steal to be off cooldown before using the stolen skill you’ve got so you can use two stolen skills in rapid succession.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Having its own cooldown doesn’t change the fact that I can still use it infinite number of times.

It’s less about being able to use the skills multiple times without re-stealing and more about having control over which stolen skills you want to use.

Admittedly this would be a more noticeable change in PvE where there are more stolen skills than in PvP but it does provide some strategic control over what you can do with your stolen skills, you could for example hang on to a Healing Seed from a ranger to provide a water field and AOE healing for your team in sPvP or WvW, it’s all about flexibility and control.

GameVeight.2745:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

So why even store it? If I can steal from the same target over and over, why don’t I just do that and only wait for one cooldown instead of two?

You wouldn’t have to wait for two cooldowns the F2 cooldown would reset when a new skill was successfully stolen, from a balance perspective this is no different than the current system where you wait for Steal to be off cooldown before using the stolen skill you’ve got so you can use two stolen skills in rapid succession.

Yes I do. If I want to Fear twice in a row, I have to wait for F2 to get off cooldown, use it, steal a new Fear, then use the new Fear….then wait for both to get off cooldown.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Having its own cooldown doesn’t change the fact that I can still use it infinite number of times.

It’s less about being able to use the skills multiple times without re-stealing and more about having control over which stolen skills you want to use.

Admittedly this would be a more noticeable change in PvE where there are more stolen skills than in PvP but it does provide some strategic control over what you can do with your stolen skills, you could for example hang on to a Healing Seed from a ranger to provide a water field and AOE healing for your team in sPvP or WvW, it’s all about flexibility and control.

You’ll still face the same problem when you have Healing Seed, for example, then you find a Mesmer — you’d still waste that stolen item regardless if you want the item from the Mesmer. There’s really no benefit to this and no point on holding on to items for too long other than allowing Thief to reuse the same thing over and over.

If I’ve stolen from a Mesmer, there’s no way I’m giving that up so that will be a fixed item in my F2 — meaning, it’s broken — you’re just asking to get hit with a nerf bat.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yes I do. If I want to Fear twice in a row, I have to wait for F2 to get off cooldown, use it, steal a new Fear, then use the new Fear….then wait for both to get off cooldown.

If as I have suggested the F2 skills cooldown would be equal to but not linked to that of Steal than I don’t see how this is any different than stealing Fear, waiting for Steals cooldown to go down without using it, using Fear, stealing Fear again and using it. The timing remains the same regardless of whether or not Fear is being held in F2 or covering Steal in F1.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

There’s really no benefit to this and no point on holding on to items for too long other than allowing Thief to reuse the same thing over and over.

It’s all about having control, if you don’t think control is important try out Hard to Catch.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If I’ve stolen from a Mesmer, there’s no way I’m giving that up so that will be a fixed item in my F2 — meaning, it’s broken — you’re just asking to get hit with a nerf bat.

My suggestion is self balancing.
If Consume Plasma is a “fixed item” in F2 then then you can’t use Steal without losing it, it’s a trade off you can keep Consume Plasma but you lose the utility of Steal so the only problem would be if Consume Plasma was so powerful that you never wanted to use Steal again in which case I think that would be more of a problem with Consume Plasma than my suggestion.

If you don’t ever use stolen skills my suggestion changes nothing except removing the need to “burn off” stolen skills to use Steal again and if you do use stolen skills it lets you choose to use one repeatedly until, It is no longer needed\wanted, or you need\want to use Steal.

GameVeight.2745:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yes I do. If I want to Fear twice in a row, I have to wait for F2 to get off cooldown, use it, steal a new Fear, then use the new Fear….then wait for both to get off cooldown.

If as I have suggested the F2 skills cooldown would be equal to but not linked to that of Steal than I don’t see how this is any different than stealing Fear, waiting for Steals cooldown to go down without using it, using Fear, stealing Fear again and using it. The timing remains the same regardless of whether or not Fear is being held in F2 or covering Steal in F1.

My point is really based on system trying to track two cooldowns instead of just one. If there will be no difference, then why tax the system with additional cooldown?

Even if I don’t use the items in successions, I will still be waiting for two cooldowns.

Imagine if F2 has 15s cooldown left and I have a Fear in it, but Steal is ready for use, then I saw a Warrior…I’d either wait 15s to use Steal to get the Warrior item after using F2, or get it now and replace my F2. The former will make me wait for F2 after waiting for F1.

In a heated fight, there’s no time to get distracted on whether to keep a stolen item or not.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

There’s really no benefit to this and no point on holding on to items for too long other than allowing Thief to reuse the same thing over and over.

It’s all about having control, if you don’t think control is important try out Hard to Catch.

This is not even about control. What control do you have on what item to steal?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If I’ve stolen from a Mesmer, there’s no way I’m giving that up so that will be a fixed item in my F2 — meaning, it’s broken — you’re just asking to get hit with a nerf bat.

My suggestion is self balancing.
If Consume Plasma is a “fixed item” in F2 then then you can’t use Steal without losing it, it’s a trade off you can keep Consume Plasma but you lose the utility of Steal so the only problem would be if Consume Plasma was so powerful that you never wanted to use Steal again in which case I think that would be more of a problem with Consume Plasma than my suggestion.

Not really, because some of the items are powerful enough to be one-time-use only. Take Mace Head Crack, for example. Can you imagine a Thief dazing you every time it comes off CD? And if chained with other disables, you’re really asking for a nerf bat swing.

If you don’t ever use stolen skills my suggestion changes nothing except removing the need to “burn off” stolen skills to use Steal again and if you do use stolen skills it lets you choose to use one repeatedly until, It is no longer needed\wanted, or you need\want to use Steal.

To be honest, I care little with the stolen items and care more about the functionality of steal. It means, I don’t want to give steal unnecessary attention that Anet can use as a reason to nerf it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

My point is really based on system trying to track two cooldowns instead of just one. If there will be no difference, then why tax the system with additional cooldown?

If the system can handle tracking the four sets of five cooldowns from Elementalists attunements and the cooldowns of the four attunement class skills I don’t think keeping track of one more cooldown on thief is going to melt the servers.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even if I don’t use the items in successions, I will still be waiting for two cooldowns.

Imagine if F2 has 15s cooldown left and I have a Fear in it, but Steal is ready for use, then I saw a Warrior…I’d either wait 15s to use Steal to get the Warrior item after using F2, or get it now and replace my F2. The former will make me wait for F2 after waiting for F1.

I repeat “The F2 cooldown would reset when a new skill was successfully stolen.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

In a heated fight, there’s no time to get distracted on whether to keep a stolen item or not.

So just keep using stolen skills like you do now and don’t think about whether to keep a stolen item or not.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Not really, because some of the items are powerful enough to be one-time-use only. Take Mace Head Crack, for example. Can you imagine a Thief dazing you every time it comes off CD? And if chained with other disables, you’re really asking for a nerf bat swing.

S/D can inflict a 2s daze every 8 seconds that ends up providing approximately 5.25s of daze over 21 seconds so with Bone Crack that’s 8.25s of stun over 21 seconds and that would be very OP if there were no Stun Breaks in the game and there was no Revealed debuff. . . and all of those things could be done at once in under a second.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

To be honest, I care little with the stolen items and care more about the functionality of steal.

The fact that the stolen skills don’t matter is illustrative of a core design flaw in Steal.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t want to give steal unnecessary attention that Anet can use as a reason to nerf it.

Attention from Anet gets things fixed, QQ from players gets things nerfed.