Pistol Evasion.

Pistol Evasion.

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Posted by: Daecollo.9578

Daecollo.9578

Bodyshot:
Evade to the right and perform Bodyshot.

Headshot:
Evade to the left and perform Headshot.

Unload:
Evade back while Unloading.

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Posted by: Dasorine.1964

Dasorine.1964

the problem with evades on ranged attacks is (specially with thief ranged) they’ll often put you out of position for shooting, not so much a problem if the move is entirely based around that function (disabling shot) but if its tacked on to other moves that are used for their actual effects such as head shot or unload it fast becomes a pain in the butt.

the 2 better idea’s would really be:

A) Give attacks slight control effects (short duration immobs/cripples/chills/stuns etc) this allows you to manually avoid many things by keeping most the threat away from you (with stuns and dazes even stopping the attacks) but with the downside of not actually being an evade for those damage you can’t just stroll out of.

B) Give endurance recovery/vigor granting effects, this means while the skill doesn’t its self evade it gives you more option to manually evade which is generally going to be more usable.

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Posted by: Pentalic.5409

Pentalic.5409

What if the Pistol #2 (Bodyshot) had a component that evaded in whichever direction you were moving at the time of its activation? It could function somewhat like the dodge mechanic in that way.

Blackgate – Asuran Thief – Pentalic The Silent
“A wise man once said something. No one paid attention.”

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Posted by: Issues.5789

Issues.5789

Unload:
Evade back while Unloading.

So you constantly evade as you unload.. Think about what you’re saying here.

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

Unload:
Evade back while Unloading.

So you constantly evade as you unload.. Think about what you’re saying here.

Every dual skill have an evade part in it (shadow shot and shadowstab have a small window of “evade” but they aren’t like PW, DB, unload or flanking strike where you are rather “stationary”. They are (respectively) Gapcloser and gapcreator). It’s weird that p/p doesn’t rly…

Ring of Fire
GL – “The Afternoon’s Watch” [OATH]

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Unload:
Evade back while Unloading.

So you constantly evade as you unload.. Think about what you’re saying here.

Not only that, only two shots will hit because after evading backwards, you’re out of range. :P

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Posted by: Issues.5789

Issues.5789

If this holds true, I can make a P/P build where I have like 7-8 unloads, and perma evade LOL. It will be very powerful. Also unload does quite a lot of damage.

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Posted by: Daecollo.9578

Daecollo.9578

If this holds true, I can make a P/P build where I have like 7-8 unloads, and perma evade LOL. It will be very powerful. Also unload does quite a lot of damage.

Unload is probably the lowest damage of all the dual skills. Due to how protection/toughness work in lowering damage.

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(edited by Daecollo.9578)

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Posted by: Dasorine.1964

Dasorine.1964

unload is actually one of the higher total damages of all the dual skills (working on the pure amount of damage one use will net total, not DPS and not actual real use damage thats lower because people just roll away)

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Posted by: Tulisin.6945

Tulisin.6945

unload is actually one of the higher total damages of all the dual skills (working on the pure amount of damage one use will net total, not DPS and not actual real use damage thats lower because people just roll away)

Yeah, but “damage per activation” is a meaningless metric since activation times aren’t standardized.

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Posted by: Dasorine.1964

Dasorine.1964

well if you take into account that it essentially comes out as damage per initiative for thieves, which is generally fairly standard

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Posted by: Issues.5789

Issues.5789

If this holds true, I can make a P/P build where I have like 7-8 unloads, and perma evade LOL. It will be very powerful. Also unload does quite a lot of damage.

Unload is probably the lowest damage of all the dual skills. Due to how protection/toughness work in lowering damage.

Pretty sure it does more damage than, Pistol whip – as PW you can move out 1/2 way through the cast, it does more damage than DB, as for Flanking strike that’s 50/50. So no, it’s one of the highest if not the highest damage weapon sets in the game

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Posted by: Tulisin.6945

Tulisin.6945

well if you take into account that it essentially comes out as damage per initiative for thieves, which is generally fairly standard

Damage per activation does not come out as damage per initiative, since skills don’t have standardized initiative cost either. Measuring things by initiative/time would be somewhat useful if you were comparing equal-DPS abilities or sustainability, but Unload is poor in both respects.

Issues

Pretty sure it does more damage than, Pistol whip – as PW you can move out 1/2 way through the cast, it does more damage than DB, as for Flanking strike that’s 50/50. So no, it’s one of the highest if not the highest damage weapon sets in the game

It really, really isn’t. Unload is poor DPS because it has an exceptionally long channel time. People think Unload is big damage because of the additive big numbers the channel produces, but in the same time period it takes to do a full Unload almost any other thief damage-focused skill will do more damage. Dagger auto attack will do more damage. Sword auto attack will do more damage (and as AE), shortbow auto will do more damage (if there is a target to bounce to), and most of the other skills follow suit.

At best you can claim (like above) that it does a “high amount of damage” for one skill use, but that is a pretty useless metric as a thief. It’d be like calling “Tooth Stab” (stolen) the best damage steal since you can do like 12,000 damage with it over the course of two minutes with a single bleed tick.

(edited by Tulisin.6945)

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Posted by: Dasorine.1964

Dasorine.1964

if you go by skill coefficient per second it comes out slightly ahead of dagger AA but slightly behind sword AA they both come with little effects too (AoE, conditions etc) at least until initiative starvation (which effects almost every initiative skill)

However its slightly normal for ranged skills to be weaker than melee due to the range advantage, and of course traited it can potentially be better and such.

I won’t argue it could use tweaks and improvements (as could Pistol whip and tbh a vast majority of thief skills) but for what its for (damage) its one of the stronger dual skills as the others tend to be more on utility.

Though this comes down to one of the issues with most skills in this game that the only timing given in game is the activation time, which is generally a half second or more slower than the full use time and for thieves the fact that our skill coefficients are generally really low (each shot is only 0.3 skill coefficient for example)

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Posted by: Scootabuser.4915

Scootabuser.4915

P/P doesn’t do good damage.

Get over it.

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Posted by: Travlane.5948

Travlane.5948

unload doesnt do as muchd dmg as d/d auto…..dps i mean…..over the same tiume :/ although unload with haste is ok…..add in devourer/bv idk….then switch out of p/p b4 u die lol. ive seen people…defensively….not have any idea how to deal with p/p before…went down fast…..p-rolly bc they arent usede to 6-7k ranged in 3 secs or w.e. :P

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Posted by: Setun.4368

Setun.4368

Anyone else think Daecollo was playing this while he made this post? XD

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Posted by: Dual.8953

Dual.8953

I’d prefer moving twice as fast during Unload. Make it more versatile as a kiting skill then a simple evade.
I’d prefer if Headshot just shot quicker, like a borderline instant cast.

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Posted by: Seven Dreamsong.9802

Seven Dreamsong.9802

hmm, not too sure about that.

really like that we can move around in control
while doing unload. having an auto evade would be
detrimental for using it in tight quarters and narrow ledges.
the same way we avoid using shortbow’s auto evade
on dangerous cliffs.

the difference of the two being one is used primarily for offense, (unload)
while the other is a primarily a defensive move (shortbow evade).
mixing both together might not be so good.

would rather see pistol #2 have a knockback feature or something,
give dual pistols a bit more utility.

.

(edited by Seven Dreamsong.9802)

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Posted by: Incurafy.6329

Incurafy.6329

Please, for the love of Nocturnal, stop posting balance suggestions about Thieves, they’re always either stupidly OP or just stupid in general.

Your reputation on this forum isn’t a good one, and that’s exactly why.

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Posted by: naphack.9346

naphack.9346

so you shoot down from a wall with unload and your character puts all the bullets into the floor cause he was backstepping?
That and I’d like to see the ranged duel against a shortbow ranger, when you constantly put yourself out of range

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The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

If it were me I would give unload a 1/2-.75 second knock back of 300m if the target is within 300m range with 10 second internal cd . All the evade while moving back sounds like pistols from DCUO or a John Woo film.

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Posted by: Daeqar.8965

Daeqar.8965

On the discussion of damage metrics to use or not use…

Here’s what you want to do:

(abilityDps – autoattackDps) / initiativeCost = [damageAboveAuto/(second*initiative)]

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Posted by: Drawing Guy.3701

Drawing Guy.3701

Unload with a dodge so you can do dives and cartwheels like movies would be epic. At that point I’d use it to troll and look boss rather than kill crap. However such mechanics can also render a move difficult or impossible to use in sections of the game. Like GG on harpies in Fractals.

Two SotGs ago, they mentioned adding mobility to Pistols. How they plan on it, I really have no idea, but they obviously haven’t made up their minds yet as no changes have been made. I personally still desire them to be high risk – high DPS, but the decision is not mine. We’ll see how it goes, I just hope that they do not continue to be ignored.