Guild Wars 2

Hey there guys,

For my stream today, I decided to test out P/P in WvW to see if it has any place with any current builds to replace Shortbow or whether a new build needed to be theory crafted for it.

I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. So much so, that I might just start running P/P on most of my Power builds.

So here’s the run down of what I used:

- D/P + P/P,
- 3 Valk / 3 Zeker (V-Z-V-Z-V-Z),
- Everything else Zerker,
- Runes of the Pack/Wurm (Tested both, both okay but there’s probably better choices),
- Air/Blood in D/P (Might swap Blood out for Intelligence),
- Air/Intelligence in P/P (Might swap Intelligence out for Blood),
- The build I used

Now, P/P on it’s own sucks kitten . It just simply doesn’t work. You need to run a weapon combo with built in utility like D/P (Stealth & Blinds) or S/D (Evasion & Teleports, I’ve not tested S/D yet) to give it some decent survivability. P/P is somewhat comparable to S/P and Pistol Whip, where P/P has extremely good ranged pressure, Pistol Whip has a short stun and Evade built in, with access to Infiltrators strike. The problems with Pistol Whip is that;

1. The enemy can just walk out of the area,
2. The Stun gets mirrored against Mesmers and some Ele builds,
3. If you miss with Pistol Whip, you’re locked in place for a brief period of time,
4. You need to expend a gap closer to reliably land Pistol Whip,

Unload, deals roughly the same damage, maybe a bit more, and does not have any of the problems above. It does kinda have a small problem with it’s 900 range but not that bad.

I found opening with Unload twice then stealing, weapon swapping then backstabbing does a massive, I mean massive spike damage.
Unload hits harder than Backstab in most cases. If Flanking Strikes procs, then two unloads hits for roughly 15k-18k depending on your crits within 1.5 seconds. Then Backstab with intelligence runes, for a further 5-8k.

Your single target DPS is off the kittening chain, but you’ll struggle with 2v1’s (Bring back Ricochet pls anet).

It’s got very nice access to defence as Blinding Powder inside of Black Powder grants 7 or so seconds of Stealth for easy repositioning. Refuge for resetting the fight or using the Dark Field to lifesteal with Pistol Sneak attack (100% Projectile Finisher), then a following Unload (20% chance). Finally with Shadow Step for quick repositioning, stun breaks or Condi clearing.

Always use Sneak Attack on Pistol over Unload as it hits for roughly 50% damage but is free of initiative costs and has a 100% chance to combo finisher. Unload is brilliant for major spike damage but requires some serious Initiative management.

Typically, the build struggles with condition bombs, as do most Thief builds.

Tomorrow, I’m going to try out an evasion build with P/P with S/D and see if it works as well as D/P.

For once, I’m genuinely excited to try out something new, as I have had good results today against most professions and builds (except mantra power mesmers, 17k-0 in <0.5 seconds isn’t fun).

And the funny part about this whole thing is, that once Daredevil comes out the build is going to get so much stronger with Bound being a Leap Finisher so P/P can get Utility through Stealth.

Edit: Here’s a pretty decent 1v1 against a Melee -Survival Ranger
it’s a 6 min long fight, but on several occasions I’m getting a single Unload to hit for 10k+.

Nice post. I was testing something similar but as an hybrid in spvp, running a carrion amulet, two venom and shadowstep, with DA instead of CS.
The result is a bit different, but the idea is the same, P/P can hold its own if you use a second weapon set for the stealth / mobility access.

I really think there’s a lot of potential into the archetype with Daredevil.
Something like CS Trick Daredevil, P/P with Staff if its good enough or keep the D/P secondary.

I think the key to making the idea really good would be some kind of redesign of Pistol 2 so the set get something unique to it that is useful.

Nocta.5274:

the key to making the idea really good would be some kind of redesign of Pistol 2 so the set get something unique to it that is useful.

The Bola shot is really bad. 4 Ini for a 1 second immobilize which is really easy to dodge ( you literally just need to walk to the side and you dodge it). It needs to be changed to something worthwhile. I’ve never used it and probably never will do. Ankle Shots does a much better job at controlling my opponent then Pistol#2 does.

I’ve been trying out a p/p build in Spvp, though my build is different than yours, utilizing the Deadly Arts traitline for Panic Strike, Mug, and Executioner rather than Shadow Arts. So somewhat less in terms of survivability, but the sheer damage is higher. Basically it relies on bursting down an enemy before it can die, and if they use defensive abilities, to mitigate with evades, as I run both Withdraw and Roll For Initiative (traited, so they also remove conditions).

In addition, Haste is a fantastic ability for lining up burst before someone can even react. I’ve dropped Burn Guards before they even realized their health was going down, and Panic Strike insures that most people’s initial reaction, dodge, won’t work.

Other than that, weapon set is the same. Have tried using both Pack and Scholar, but with No Quarter from Critical Strikes I find I have more than enough Fury, so the proc from Pack isn’t really that great. Scholar, on the other hand, makes that initial opening burst that much deadlier.

My own build uses trappers runes, traps and a DA . CS ,SA build. DA traited to maximize traps usage sstealth on steal and SE the key traits from the SE line.

I really do not feel any loss in hitting pwer due to trappers and the stealth is ample allowing a lot of sneak attacks so as to preserve INI.

Might stacks nicely making up for lead attacks loss from trickery and because sneak attack does hit hard I am not using as many unloads for damage thus addresssing that INI loss from dropping trickery.

Yet another P/P thief applying low pop WvW lessons to general play. Try any of this on a high pop server. You’ll get your kitten handed to you.

Black Frog.9274:

Yet another P/P thief applying low pop WvW lessons to general play. Try any of this on a high pop server. You’ll get your kitten handed to you.

The fact is on most any high population server no stealth means dead thief. Certain specs just do not work in zergs.

babazhook.6805:

Black Frog.9274:

Yet another P/P thief applying low pop WvW lessons to general play. Try any of this on a high pop server. You’ll get your kitten handed to you.

The fact is on most any high population server no stealth means dead thief. Certain specs just do not work in zergs.

There is no thief spec that fits into medium to large group combat. Thieves shouldn’t be limited to flipping camps and hunting stragglers. That’s precisely the problem. Every other class can, at the very least, operate on the back line in zerg situations. With only 900 range, thieves can’t hang with the back line, with low HP and low condi cleanse, we can’t operate within 900 of the enemy zerg or back line without dying in a hail of ranged fire. Why are thieves the only class straight jacketed by range?

Black Frog.9274:

babazhook.6805:

Black Frog.9274:

Yet another P/P thief applying low pop WvW lessons to general play. Try any of this on a high pop server. You’ll get your kitten handed to you.

The fact is on most any high population server no stealth means dead thief. Certain specs just do not work in zergs.

There is no thief spec that fits into medium to large group combat. Thieves shouldn’t be limited to flipping camps and hunting stragglers. That’s precisely the problem. Every other class can, at the very least, operate on the back line in zerg situations. With only 900 range, thieves can’t hang with the back line, with low HP and low condi cleanse, we can’t operate within 900 of the enemy zerg or back line without dying in a hail of ranged fire. Why are thieves the only class straight jacketed by range?

Well I was able to survive the entire night of play reset night zerg fighting (which I do not usually do) without dying. Downed a whole pile of bad guys. Used Pistol pistol and no stealth and our fights were about 30+ per side.

Condi cleanse was fine as traited. Dash worked wonders. I would be focused many times and people give chase and I was able to triple dash out of there.

It does not make you a superman but it not as bad as you say. Ranged fire I can deal with. What is difficult is the aoe circles that stack up one after another to the point where they extend more then 900 range from the enemy,

Strange how “specs do not work in zergs” morphed into “survive entire night of… zerg fighting.”

Since you mention Dash, I assume you’re referring to a beta setup. That makes it sound like $50 stands between me and P/P effectiveness.

Black Frog.9274:

Strange how “specs do not work in zergs” morphed into “survive entire night of… zerg fighting.”

Since you mention Dash, I assume you’re referring to a beta setup. That makes it sound like $50 stands between me and P/P effectiveness.

I am just descriibing tonights experience. I do not usually trait unhindered combat because we do not usually have it. I am pointing out with DASH P/P survival goes up but you will have to use it a lot. it in fact better to chain a few together (thus you should not waste endurance on a regular dodge) when escaping a focus. (as example generally if you turn to run from a lb warrior you dead with dash you get that swiftness that brst of distance with the evades and can escape pursuit)

Had I tried my old build with no stealth no dash yes I would be dead and would not of hung with the zerg. Once HOT kicks in I am going to spec it with p/p staff and my trappers runes so I can stealth and dash. If they ever fix number 2 p/p might be ok yet.