I’ve put over 1.5k hours into my Thief and I still have no clue when to use Pistol Whip. The auto-attack with sword does more DPS than PW and I don’t get rooted. The only time I catch myself using it is when I want the second of evade, or for rarely stripping stacks of defiant (which I’ll just use Headshot instead unless I want the evades too). Sometimes I’ll use it in a Time Warp but most of the time I’ll just auto-attack since the DPS is better. I don’t even bother with it in PvP either, I mean should I? Is there a purpose to that skill that I’m just not seeing?
Unless you wanna activate an On-crit sigil, no its not that great. In pve if you group melees in front of you and spam it with SoM you will get the most out of it.
Does auto attack chain really do more damage than Pistol whip though? Have you actually timed the auto attack and pistol whip and compared the damage over time between the two?
Pistol Whip has a 3/4 second cast time.
Slice cast time isn’t labelled but there definitely is a cast time or after cast delay there.
Slash is 1/2 second.
Crippling strike is 1/2 second
Just doing a quick test on some dolyaks in Frostgorge Sound I ran three auto attack chains (Slice, Slash, Crippling Strike) for a total of 5200, 5800, 5100, from a fresh Dolyak each score. Then I opened with Pistol whip on three separate dolyaks for a total of 5100, 6900, 6800 for each yak.
Maybe I’m missing something but pistol whip is still slightly better than the auto attack chain for damage per second, and it has more chance to proc ‘on crit’ sigils and a 1/2 second stun. Auto attack chain is great for a base attack considering it doesn’t have an initiative cost, but I still think Pistol Whip has its uses.
At least, that’s what I do while just doing PVE stuff. It has a nice stun, which can interrupt as well, and it gives you a short duratoin dodge, which is pretty useful if there’s other things attacking you. I do particularly like it because of the multiple attacks and how well they stack with Signet of Malice.
Beyond that, I guess just use it when you have initiative to spare or you want to play it safe for a while. Spamming pistol whip against a mob usually keeps you pretty safe in small encounters.
It does not do more damage. You need to learn that you can still move until its animation has started. While it is PWing you are emume to all damage for that time. It is great it zergs — especially when enemies are next to each other as it hits multiple targets at once (until they nerf that).
PW is not an easy setup to learn, at all. That’s why most people don’t play it. It takes a ton of practice and a huge understanding of Teleporting in and out using Infiltrator’s Strike (when it’s not bugging out due to the lack of the develoeprs knowledge of the games code).
You also need to use Headshot in practical ways. Headshot and Black Powder will drop a Dagger Thief really hard.
S/P is very powerful. It’s not a setup that everyone picks up due to the way it works.
S/P is an incredibly powerful set, both in PvP and in PvE.
The “autoattack deals more damage” argument has been proved to be stupid enough.
FS, even after the buff, always dealt about the damage of autoattack, but nobody seems to be complaining about the set because of the dual skill.
S/P is an incredibly powerful set, both in PvP and in PvE.
The “autoattack deals more damage” argument has been proved to be stupid enough.
FS, even after the buff, always dealt about the damage of autoattack, but nobody seems to be complaining about the set because of the dual skill.
Because obviously FS is much better than PW.
FS : tracks your target on first part and second can be used on the move
PW : second place roots you in place making it more likely to miss part of the damage
FS : two strong hits
PW : suicide by retaliation
FS : evades 1/2s at the start of the skill, you can use the evade reactively
PW : evades somewhere in the middle of the effect after a cast time, evades while the target is stunned even
Because obviously FS is much better than PW.
FS : tracks your target on first part and second can be used on the move
PW : second place roots you in place making it more likely to miss part of the damage
FS : two strong hits
PW : suicide by retaliation
FS : evades 1/2s at the start of the skill, you can use the evade reactively
PW : evades somewhere in the middle of the effect after a cast time, evades while the target is stunned even
Because obviously FS and PW are two different skills and both strong.
PW: stuns your target (so it roots it in place) and interrupts it, making PW damage more reliable
FS: your target can still move and dodge the stronger hit
PW: deals more damage
FS: deals less damage
PW: has more hits, which means it has higher chances to trigger Opportunist (thus regaining 1 initiative) and on-crit sigils
FS: has less hits
PW: has less damage variance due to the more hits, which means that the damage is better normalized around the average
FS: has more damage variance, making the damage less reliable
It does not do more damage. You need to learn that you can still move until its animation has started. While it is PWing you are emume to all damage for that time. It is great it zergs — especially when enemies are next to each other as it hits multiple targets at once (until they nerf that).
PW is not an easy setup to learn, at all. That’s why most people don’t play it. It takes a ton of practice and a huge understanding of Teleporting in and out using Infiltrator’s Strike (when it’s not bugging out due to the lack of the develoeprs knowledge of the games code).
You also need to use Headshot in practical ways. Headshot and Black Powder will drop a Dagger Thief really hard.
S/P is very powerful. It’s not a setup that everyone picks up due to the way it works.
I find pistol whip very hard to land completely in spvp – I think you said you were going to make a video in another s/p thread a little while back which would be interesting to see because I’d like to know what your method in spvp against decent players is for getting off a full pw?
I find pistol whip very hard to land completely in spvp – I think you said you were going to make a video in another s/p thread a little while back which would be interesting to see because I’d like to know what your method in spvp against decent players is for getting off a full pw?
Use Sigil of Paralyzation.
Not only PW benefits from it, but also Headshot, whose daze is extended to a full 1s.
FS is a clear winner as for the better skill by far.
Based on what?
Seriously, those are two different skills with two different purposes.
In most situation, an on-demand stun is way, way more valuable compared to two boons stolen (which you can still steal via Bountiful Theft).
PW is hardly an on-demand stun when it got such a long cast time. And it’s melee on top of it. If you want an on-demand interrupt you got Head Shot for that.
In my opinion, FS > PW by far because I take S/D so that I get access to FS, and I take S/P so that I get access to Headshot and Blackpowder. Having to deal with Pistol Whip then is a side effect.
PW is hardly an on-demand stun when it got such a long cast time. And it’s melee on top of it. If you want an on-demand interrupt you got Head Shot for that.
In my opinion, FS > PW by far because I take S/D so that I get access to FS, and I take S/P so that I get access to Headshot and Blackpowder. Having to deal with Pistol Whip then is a side effect.
The long casting time isn’t a problem considering that the enemy is stunned and you are evading during the animation.
Having your main source of damage being also a stun is a great feature in my opinion. I think you should try S/P again with 30 in trickery and Sigil of Paralyzation. It is an incredibly valuable set.
FS is a clear winner as for the better skill by far.
Sword akittens potential is in range to cleave 3 targets.
Given that situation S/P is at a base the stronger weapon.
Sure you get in cleave range a couple of times in a tpvp game but its not forever and often you go back to that 1 target range. When you’re in that range to cleave 3 targets PW shines but usually there is a guardian in the centre pumping out aoe retal for the whole group. 1 retal is fine, 3 ticks is murder.
FS is more practical but S/P is the powerhouse.
Hm, I may have to try out s/p with the trickery build.
But what I meant by the DPS is better, is with auto-attacks during longer fights such as against Champions. It seems the DPS for PW is better by pure numbers if you just look at them as is, but over time the auto-attack will slowly edge its way ahead of PW, since you can only use PW based on how much initiative you have left and then it’s either wait for it to come back up or spend time using utilities like roll for initiative, when on the otherhand auto-attack is consistent damage. If I don’t use PW and only auto-attack I could alternatively spam P5 and basically be invuln against anything but Champions and above. Not only does it make me basically invuln but all my teammates as well, and I would more than likely have enough initiative for an instant daze from P4. I can see how PW can be effective in very certain situations but is it REALLY worth investing a build based around it? If you have a build that caters to PW I’m more than willing to check it out and try it myself.
Hm, I may have to try out s/p with the trickery build.
But what I meant by the DPS is better, is with auto-attacks during longer fights such as against Champions. It seems the DPS for PW is better by pure numbers if you just look at them as is, but over time the auto-attack will slowly edge its way ahead of PW, since you can only use PW based on how much initiative you have left and then it’s either wait for it to come back up or spend time using utilities like roll for initiative, when on the otherhand auto-attack is consistent damage. If I don’t use PW and only auto-attack I could alternatively spam P5 and basically be invuln against anything but Champions and above. Not only does it make me basically invuln but all my teammates as well, and I would more than likely have enough initiative for an instant daze from P4. I can see how PW can be effective in very certain situations but is it REALLY worth investing a build based around it? If you have a build that caters to PW I’m more than willing to check it out and try it myself.
An advantage of Pistol Whip is that it is multiple hits, which means that you have more chances to trigger the Opportunist trait. Also, once the Pistol Whip channel takes place, you have regenerated 1 initiative.
In real life, each Pistol Whip cast costs you just 3 initiative if you complete the cast and you aren’t unlucky to not trigger the Opportunist trait (which is a very low chance, considering the 9 hits). If you are hitting multiple targets, you have the chances to trigger the Opportunist traits even more than once.
Running S/P with trickery build and Steal on 20s recharge, I’m never out of initiative. Stealing gives 3 initative, AoE fury, AoE swiftness, AoE vigor and 2 boons stripped and 2 seconds daze, all at a 20s recharge.
For PvP: Pistol Whip is pretty solid in PvP, and personally I really like the way it plays. Pistol offhand is simply too good. That being said, PW has real problems with retaliation, which basically shuts you down in team fights as you have no option other than waiting it out. This single problem puts S/D ahead of S/P.
For PvE: Sword/Pistol is arguably the best melee weapon you have. It has AoE stun/damage, has high damaging (albeit slow) auto-attacks, and the blind field, which makes it better than S/D. Also, for PvE, you’re better off saving your initiative for blind fields while using auto-attacks as your main damage source. You can put a few points in Trickery and get the signet trait in Crit Strikes to sustain your initiative if you find yourself using PW too much.
I still like S/D better in PvE for the amazing condition removal you get with 10 or 20 points in SA. But that’s mostly dungeon and group play PvE. Outdoor situations aren’t as demanding.
Same here. I think PW is quite usefull. Most heals that heal for a decent ammount can easily be interrupted with PW or Headshot. And I have yet to see anyone still standing after heal interrupt and a full PW beating going upt o 12k depending on the ammount of crits and oncrit procs.
Hm, I may have to try out s/p with the trickery build.
But what I meant by the DPS is better, is with auto-attacks during longer fights such as against Champions. It seems the DPS for PW is better by pure numbers if you just look at them as is, but over time the auto-attack will slowly edge its way ahead of PW, since you can only use PW based on how much initiative you have left and then it’s either wait for it to come back up or spend time using utilities like roll for initiative, when on the otherhand auto-attack is consistent damage. If I don’t use PW and only auto-attack I could alternatively spam P5 and basically be invuln against anything but Champions and above. Not only does it make me basically invuln but all my teammates as well, and I would more than likely have enough initiative for an instant daze from P4. I can see how PW can be effective in very certain situations but is it REALLY worth investing a build based around it? If you have a build that caters to PW I’m more than willing to check it out and try it myself.
An advantage of Pistol Whip is that it is multiple hits, which means that you have more chances to trigger the Opportunist trait. Also, once the Pistol Whip channel takes place, you have regenerated 1 initiative.
In real life, each Pistol Whip cast costs you just 3 initiative if you complete the cast and you aren’t unlucky to not trigger the Opportunist trait (which is a very low chance, considering the 9 hits). If you are hitting multiple targets, you have the chances to trigger the Opportunist traits even more than once.
Running S/P with trickery build and Steal on 20s recharge, I’m never out of initiative. Stealing gives 3 initative, AoE fury, AoE swiftness, AoE vigor and 2 boons stripped and 2 seconds daze, all at a 20s recharge.
You’re not mentioning the 1% extra damage from each point of initiative as well.
A victor gives no quarter when the victor shows no clemency or mercy
and refuses to spare the life in return for the surrender at discretion (unconditional surrender)
of a vanquished opponent.
Not only PW benefits from it, but also Headshot, whose daze is extended to a full 1s.
With Sigil of Para, the stun from PW lasts exactly 2 swings of the channel. Without it, it still lasts exactly 2 swings. It also doesn’t make a noticable improvement on Stealth+Sword1. Headshot does gain, but its so slight its arguable.
Steal, however, sees a huge gain, almost doubling the duration of the daze.
Yay for randomly applied duration increases. I’m going with, sigil not worth it.
Edit: and Bask venom. Doesn’t improve that either.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
That’s because all stun and daze durations seem to be rounded up to the next second. 1.5s of Daze on tactical strike only becomes 1.725s with paralisation and so it rounds at 2s, same than without the sigil.
But take any stun of a round duration and the sigil is an instant +1s duration plain and simple.
Same for Pistol Whip : 0.5s stun by base rounded up to 1s in practice. With sigil it becomes 0.575s stun rounded to 1s too so no effect.
Paralysation works for Tactical Strike in PvE and WvW because the base duration is 2s there.
Headshot : 0.25s base rounded to 1s with or without the sigil.
Basilisk Venom isn’t a stun or a daze it seems. It’s is own thing.
I have had so much fun running S/P and a no-stealth build that I’m having a hard time seeing myself go back to anything else ;p Most players doesn’t expect pistol whip and the fact that I can’t stealth.
Had a nice fight the other day against two players that just had one of my friends downed. I kept interrupting their attempts to stomp and just blinded them the rest of the time. It’s really fun and something people don’t see coming.
I always use pistol whip to stop bursts, channeled abilities and to do some good AoE damage while evading all other attacks
FS is a clear winner as for the better skill by far.
Or we could just say that it’s all about how you like to play. I’ve seen really good S/D thieves and really good S/P thieves.
But I would say S/P is a really good set to use in a bunker build. Blinds, interrupts and all the tools to lock an enemy down while still damaging. Couple this with P/P, Smoke Screen, Signet of Agility (condition removal!), Scorpion Wire, Signet of Malice and Thieves Guild and you have a really solid troll build. I’m currently running that setup as a bunker and it’s hilarious!
For having people right where I want them to be – in my face. It works wonders why a ranger is trying to rain down some AoE on gate while I’m defending it – completely catches them off guard and have them freak out. It’s also an extra interrupt. As I said – I don’t use stealth. But my build isn’t finished, so I may change it since I have enough gap closers and ranged and melee interrupts in the build already.
