Guild Wars 2

So we can insert our nerf bat in your rear much easier.

14 September 2012

Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.

17 September 2012

Descent of Shadows: This trait’s effect can now only trigger once every 8 seconds.

7 October 2012

Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%
Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.

15 November 2012

Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
Tactical Strike: This skill’s daze duration has been reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP
Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

C’mon ArenaNet, this is a little ridiculous.

You’re forgeting the nerfs from beta testing and stress tests)

[Edit]

OT: The nerfs really weren’t all that bad.

The Dancing Dagger reduction is a bit much, but it should be more useful to control our enemy then a main source of long range damage.

I really have no idea what to say on the Cluster Bomb nerf. Just confused…

.5 second reduction isn’t a huge deal, but a nerf nonetheless.

Cloak and Dagger wasn’t a big source of damage to begin with. We only used it for the stealth anyways.

Overall, I think Anet missed. And missed rather poorly on whats wrong with our class and other classes.

[Edit by Moderator, removed a quote of removed posting]

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

The burst is still going to be too high. The problem is the nerf to the non burst builds.

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

But they didn’t fix the burst

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

You really think Anet nerfed BS Thieves?!

Your in for a rude awakening. They didn’t touch our spike damage at all. (outside of a small damage reduction to CnD, which didn’t hit hard to begin with)

Kaizer.7135:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

But they didn’t fix the burst

Exactly

ikr ^^ im in pvp right now still killing people in 3 seconds LOL GG i kno half of the community is butt hurt lol.

So now it’s only bs build and condition builds that’s left. Sad really.

Arthrone.7964:

So now it’s only bs build and condition builds that’s left. Sad really.

Agreed completely.

I was rather looking forward to maybe running a P/P or SB. Guess I’ll be sticking with my BS build a little while longer.

These changes are pretty upsetting. In GW1 they left Ele and Warriors alone for years and told people to “figure it out” when a large portion of the player base was screaming about IWAY and spikes.

But now Thieves get a lot of QQ from other classes, even though there are very valid ways to counter our non-sense, and devs keep taking baseballs bats to our knees because of it. What happened to letting people learn and adapt?

Every other class (minus Guardian) was buffed significantly. Warriors get even more utility despite being the top profession in PvP and PvE and thieves get half a page a page heart-break.

I liked seeing that PvP emotes are incorporated now GW1 style and was excited to get in there to rank up. But I will def be playing a Warrior. I play to relax and have fun, not to feel like I am ice-skating up-hill to get glory.

I saw no nerf to your survivability/stealth, so you should be the ones bending over Anet. They missed with this patch. Thieves should have insane burst and minimal stealth or amazing stealth survivability and no burst. Not both. Not with zero c/d. No class should be able to kitten stealth away from fights so easy. I’m looking at Mesmers, too.

GlockworK.2954:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

You really think Anet nerfed BS Thieves?!

Your in for a rude awakening. They didn’t touch our spike damage at all. (outside of a small damage reduction to CnD, which didn’t hit hard to begin with)

Well, they did a bit. But they nerfed anything other than the glass bs builds a LOT more. And obviously they aren’t supid so they knew what they were doing and did it on purpose.

Kaizer.7135:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

But they didn’t fix the burst

This is what’s so funny about the whole affair. They nerfed everything BUT burst lol…

GlockworK.2954:

.5 second reduction isn’t a huge deal, but a nerf nonetheless.

25% reduction is not a huge deal?

aaron.7850:

You guys are like that spoiled rich kid crying because his dad confiscated a car

You are still the most fun class to play in wvwvw… killing people in 3-6 seconds and dissapearing when you get targeted, no other class can do that.

Never plaid a good mesmer I see…

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

GlockworK.2954:

.5 second reduction isn’t a huge deal, but a nerf nonetheless.

25% reduction is not a huge deal?

It’s actually more than that. Sigil of Paralyzation used to increase the daze to 3 seconds. Now it doesn’t do anything.
So really it’s a 50% reduction.

bettadenu.5483:

So we can insert our nerf bat in your rear much easier.

very good remark kind sir, but i am afraid this won’t end here (with this patch)…

aaron.7850:

You guys are like that spoiled rich kid crying because his dad confiscated a car

You are still the most fun class to play in wvwvw… killing people in 3-6 seconds and dissapearing when you get targeted, no other class can do that.

you’re missing the point. they nerfed the builds they were supposed to buff, and barely touched the single build that everyone was crying to get nerfed. which will result in MORE glass cannon thieves running around.

using your example, it’s like a rich kid’s dad confiscating his bike, and kicking the tires of the kid’s car. it’s just plain facepalm worthy. the whole thing is just absolutely mind boggling.

Phantom.8130:

you’re missing the point. they nerfed the builds they were supposed to buff, and barely touched the single build that everyone was crying to get nerfed. which will result in MORE glass cannon thieves running around.

using your example, it’s like a rich kid’s dad confiscating his bike, and kicking the tires of the kid’s car. it’s just plain facepalm worthy. the whole thing is just absolutely mind boggling.

I believe that analogy is more like taking away the Rich Kid’s Computer, Gadjets and Toys while leaving him with his Burst’ol’mobile with bling bling and a boot full of booze and ladies.

While I understand the need to make small changes to balance games, but the changes need to be in the correct direction, no? Seems like ANet just wants all Thieves to play D/D, so come one day they will finally nerf backstab & death blossom into oblivion and drink yummy Thief tears.

I’m guessing the dev who balances stuff obviously had his butt handed to him by a Thief so badly he has a perma grudge against them. I mean c’mon, at least have a short note at the end of the profession patch notes, outlining roughly the thought process behind the change right? At least we can make out some semblance of a why the hell skills like Cluster Bomb get nerfed.

I think we got some bad info from a “red” post and that’s all. Assuming they still balance around sPvP why would they nerf burst when almost all of the complaining is directed toward bunker builds? Nerfing burst buffs bunkers indirectly.

They took away some Thief AoE ability and gave slight nerfs to P/D and S/D. You all know that those builds were actually more powerful than the standard burst build that is easy to counter once you know what’s what.

I play P/D and it’s still strong in both WvW and sPvP. The fix to the P#1 opener is nice, we can once again decide if we want to take a 3rd shot or wait a fraction of a second and re-C&D.

I wouldn’t say they slightly nerfed S/D (well, in WvW it’s fine). In sPvP however, they basically stomped all over it. I don’t think it’s viable in tournaments anymore.

Rukia.4802:

Kaizer.7135:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

But they didn’t fix the burst

This is what’s so funny about the whole affair. They nerfed everything BUT burst lol…

that’s why people in these forums say " i’ve been barely touched by the nerfs !!!".

Of course noob, you were running the instagib build.

The point is that build was NEVER viable. And on the other side, aNet killed all power/crit builds, ESPECIALLY the S/D daze build ( that was very powerful indeed, but now it’s actually pretty bad, with all its damage/utility cut in half and FS STILL being crap).

This nerf round was totally senseless.

Stiv.1820:

slight nerfs to … S/D.

Bringing both high-damage S/D skills below auto attack and significantly weakening S/D’s control combo is anything but “slight”. The current S/D meta was developed to deal with the weaknesses of FS, with S/D’s viable play styles heavily diminished and FS still unchanged the weapon set is left in a bad spot.

Tulisin.6945:

Stiv.1820:

slight nerfs to … S/D.

Bringing both high-damage S/D skills below auto attack and significantly weakening S/D’s control combo is anything but “slight”. The current S/D meta was developed to deal with the weaknesses of FS, with S/D’s viable play styles heavily diminished and FS still unchanged the weapon set is left in a bad spot.

Exactly.

I had to reroll.

S/D was quite competitve before ( even with FS being so bad), now it’s absolutely not competitive: your only way to deal damage is by auto-attacking, and now that the daze duration is shorter, you’re exposing yourself too much.

And still you can’t bring down people fast enough, since all your moves deal bad damage.

The set can still be played, but now it’s too much worse than other sets.

@Mr Big and Tulisin

I’m right there with you guys. Since S/D is now subpar in everything (control, damage, support), I think I’m just going to reroll to a profession that ANet likes, since it’s pretty obvious they hate Thief builds aside from the Backstab burst one.
Well, Borderlands 2 is looking pretty good…

I just don’t understand the S/D nerf. I was getting bored with D/D BS builds and S/D totally got me playing again.

So the Dancing Dagger nerf hits every x/D build but other than that.. do you guys only sPvP?

Both C&D and the Daze duration only hit sPvP. The .5 second reduction just makes you not able to completely lock people down in sPvP with builds that give +%daze duration. You are talking about taking one person out of the fight while doing constant dps to them as your team either focuses them down or takes on the rest while your target is useless.

So in WvW the only change to this build is the dancing dagger nerf and that still would be used as a snare anyway. You still have init based shadowstep and condition removal, you still have daze/blind, you still an init based evade to stack with your other evades so even if FS does suck, it’s another evade.

You guys are really overreacting.

Yes, I only sPvP. I’m only level 50 in PvE because I’ve been devoting all of my attention to sPvP.
I’ve spent maybe 2-3 hours in WvW.

Our reaction is due to the fact that this build had no need to nerf …. for months discussing of excessive damage bs … and how to make the game of thief less monotonous and less constrained on some skill .. and what do they do? daze nerf in pvp, the only thing that made the build competitive … bah … too bad

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

GlockworK.2954:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

You really think Anet nerfed BS Thieves?!

Your in for a rude awakening. They didn’t touch our spike damage at all. (outside of a small damage reduction to CnD, which didn’t hit hard to begin with)

Well, they did a bit. But they nerfed anything other than the glass bs builds a LOT more. And obviously they aren’t supid so they knew what they were doing and did it on purpose.

This …….
So im a Condition build, are they trying to makes us roll Glass…….lame

Zunhar.4079:

Yes, I only sPvP. I’m only level 50 in PvE because I’ve been devoting all of my attention to sPvP.
I’ve spent maybe 2-3 hours in WvW.

So with runes of Mesmer it was cool to give people maybe .5 second to do anything each rotation while your team destroys them since they can’t use any cool-downs?

C&D and Dancing Dagger both have primary uses that are outside of damage. You would use them even if they did zero dmg. Auto attack has always been S/D’s primary source of damage.

Stiv.1820:

Zunhar.4079:

Yes, I only sPvP. I’m only level 50 in PvE because I’ve been devoting all of my attention to sPvP.
I’ve spent maybe 2-3 hours in WvW.

So with runes of Mesmer it was cool to give people maybe .5 second to do anything each rotation while your team destroys them since they can’t use any cool-downs?

C&D and Dancing Dagger both have primary uses that are outside of damage. You would use them even if they did zero dmg. Auto attack has always been S/D’s primary source of damage.

[Edit]

I think you are confusing me for someone who cares. I play WvW primarily. I run P/D and have never been killed by a S/D thief. I’m just explaining why Anet made this change based on competitive team based sPvP. In sPvP you have teammates that stop them from kiting, all you have to do is keep Daze up so they can’t use defensive cooldowns.

[Edit by Moderator: Removed a quote from a removed posting]

Stiv.1820:

Mrbig.8019:

Stiv.1820:

Zunhar.4079:

Yes, I only sPvP. I’m only level 50 in PvE because I’ve been devoting all of my attention to sPvP.
I’ve spent maybe 2-3 hours in WvW.

So with runes of Mesmer it was cool to give people maybe .5 second to do anything each rotation while your team destroys them since they can’t use any cool-downs?

C&D and Dancing Dagger both have primary uses that are outside of damage. You would use them even if they did zero dmg. Auto attack has always been S/D’s primary source of damage.

learn to kite.

15/char

I think you are confusing me for someone who cares. I play WvW primarily. I run P/D and have never been killed by a S/D thief. I’m just explaining why Anet made this change based on competitive team based sPvP. In sPvP you have teammates that stop them from kiting, all you have to do is keep Daze up so they can’t use defensive cooldowns.

in competitve PvP, THE S/D THIEF was the one supposed to stop the enemy from kiting.

Dancing dagger and tactical strike are there to say hello.

S/D is the duelist set, and it was meant to fight on 1vs1 battles and win. And it’s still the best set to do so, showing how lacklustre other thief sets are.

A good player can counter S/D by dodging C&D properly, by understanding its surroundings and learn where the thief is, by kiting him.

Against S/D thieves, it all went on player skills: the most skilled would win.

tactical strike is a DAZE, not a stun, so your enemy could easily dodge, hide, and all the stuff: an S/D thief has never been able to lock down an opponent, and that opponent had all the time in the world to react and avoid the next tactical strike.

there’s no reason why aNet should have hit S/D set so hard, both in damage and in control.

And the sad part is that this set is so fun ans skillful that altough now it’s vastly underpowered, playing other sets just feel too cheesy for me to play them.

Stiv.1820:

Zunhar.4079:

Yes, I only sPvP. I’m only level 50 in PvE because I’ve been devoting all of my attention to sPvP.
I’ve spent maybe 2-3 hours in WvW.

So with runes of Mesmer it was cool to give people maybe .5 second to do anything each rotation while your team destroys them since they can’t use any cool-downs?

C&D and Dancing Dagger both have primary uses that are outside of damage. You would use them even if they did zero dmg. Auto attack has always been S/D’s primary source of damage.

I know you don’t play S/D (no one uses Mesmer runes, they use the Paralyzation sigil, which used to increase the daze to 3 secs but now does nothing.). CnD was S/D burst skill (in conjunction with Mug). Now, the set doesn’t have any burst. DD needed a nerf, but not to the extent that it was.
Competent players had plenty of time to break the daze chain. One dodge roll and they’re far enough away that you can’t land CnD.

FS is still garbage. CnD does minimal damage, and believe it or not it was a HUGE part of S/D DPS.

I’m just going to stop posting about how completely useless S/D now is in sPvP because obviously people just don’t care.

Does anyone else not understand why people are so upset about the loss of a sPvP build? It’s not like you have to level another class more suited to your play-style.

Geewoody.2017:

Does anyone else not understand why people are so upset about the loss of a sPvP build? It’s not like you have to level another class more suited to your play-style.

S/D was suited to my playstyle.
D/D isn’t. D/P isn’t. P/D isn’t. S/P is alright. Shortbow is mandatory.

So, its more like the only alternative to D/D (aside from P/D) was nerfed into oblivion. Its now D/D or go home.

Just a side note, if you had played S/D you would have realised why many people are so upset.