Guild Wars 2

As much as I enjoy my thief (36 asura, double dagger, death blossom kiter/stealther), there’s always one niggling issue that pisses me off every time I play.

Stealth doesn’t break off attacks in PvE.

This wouldn’t be such a big deal if stealth was a long-term buff, like in other MMOs. But with stealth being a ~3 second buff, and only used as an emergency aggro-drop measure, it’s just not fair that I should be getting pelted with attacks 1-2 seconds after I stealth. This is especially bad against ranged attacks, which don’t have the drawbacks of proximity or direction to contend with while moving around the battlefield.

And don’t even get me started on how badly this effects thieves’ downed state. Our only method of getting away from a fight while downed is to stealth->shadowstep. And having an enemy continuing to nail your backside to the ground after popping stealth usually means death, because it doesn’t give us enough time to make distance and lose aggro.

So please, I implore the developers, while you’re working on class balance and fixing bugs, please please work on a proper aggro-break for stealth!!

The major issue I have with stealth when downed is that it resets the camera and in that short time while the camera is resetting, you do not have enough time to teleport to a desired location with your other skill even if you wanted.

Kurow.6973:

The major issue I have with stealth when downed is that it resets the camera and in that short time while the camera is resetting, you do not have enough time to teleport to a desired location with your other skill even if you wanted.

Well yeah, that is a major issue. But I wanted to dedicate this thread specifically to the aggro issue with stealth, and the camera reset (I think) is a problem with downed states in general, not just the thief’s.

Channeling skills continue to hit while in stealth, so it may seems that agro did not break.

Besides the annoying channeled abilities flowing us though stealth also the enemy’s pets (necro, ranger, mesmer) also follow us though stealth and keep attacking though out the stealth duration…

everything tracks stealth, even melee auto attacks. my attacks lean towards stealthed people so i know where they are. very broken mechanic indeed

I haven’t played enough pvp to know how the stealth mechanic fairs there, I just know that I’m tired of getting beat on after popping stealth. It just doesn’t last long enough for an immediate aggro-break (meaning ALL attacks stop!) not to be part of the mechanic.

Yea it seems that it’s pretty much a requirement to dodge as soon as you stealth. In both PvE (espcally vs risen) and PvP. If you don’t you just get trounced where you stand since nothing really requires a target.

I don’t use stealth as an agro drop unless i’m just wanting to run thru an area without being hit then i’ll blow all my stealth CD’s, otherwise I use my stealth solely for dps gain, just gotta remember that if they are already in middle of an attack that attack will STILL hit you even if you hit stealth, it isn’t broken by any means, you just need to be faster

Stiv.1820:

Yea it seems that it’s pretty much a requirement to dodge as soon as you stealth. In both PvE (espcally vs risen) and PvP. If you don’t you just get trounced where you stand since nothing really requires a target.

Which, effectively, nullifies the point of stealth to begin with. If I have to dodge to avoid being attacked anyway, I may as well have gone with a different utility skill entirely.

my suggestion is to play your Thief more and reconsider your opinions.

metaphorm.6904:

my suggestion is to play your Thief more and reconsider your opinions.

Playing my thief more won’t suddenly make stealth not broken.

If anybody has a logical and objective reason as to why the current stealth is not broken, I’m open to listen to it. However, if your reasoning boils down to, “It’s fine, learn to play,” then please find a different thread to troll.

Greyfeld.7104:

Stiv.1820:

Yea it seems that it’s pretty much a requirement to dodge as soon as you stealth. In both PvE (espcally vs risen) and PvP. If you don’t you just get trounced where you stand since nothing really requires a target.

Which, effectively, nullifies the point of stealth to begin with. If I have to dodge to avoid being attacked anyway, I may as well have gone with a different utility skill entirely.

There are still a lot of buffs you get while stealthed and in PvP it’s still really useful. Not to mention the Stealth #1 abilities.

Stiv.1820:

Greyfeld.7104:

Stiv.1820:

Yea it seems that it’s pretty much a requirement to dodge as soon as you stealth. In both PvE (espcally vs risen) and PvP. If you don’t you just get trounced where you stand since nothing really requires a target.

Which, effectively, nullifies the point of stealth to begin with. If I have to dodge to avoid being attacked anyway, I may as well have gone with a different utility skill entirely.

There are still a lot of buffs you get while stealthed and in PvP it’s still really useful.

Yes, if you’re traited into stealth, there are other perks. But what about those who aren’t traited into stealth and want to use it for its intended purpose? An aggro dump for positioning (or running away, as the case may be) is the first and foremost use for stealth.

As I said, I don’t know how well this works for PvP, but the issue of the aggro dump remains for PvE, which is a major concern.

Stealth isn’t broken. If you continue getting hit while in stealth, chain your stealth for longer stealth, or use your dodge-roll while stealthed to avoid any additional damage while stealthed.

ShneakySquirrel.7491:

Stealth isn’t broken. If you continue getting hit while in stealth, chain your stealth for longer stealth, or use your dodge-roll while stealthed to avoid any additional damage while stealthed.

“Stealth isn’t broken, because we can circumvent the problem” isn’t a legitimate argument. If we have to circumvent the problem to begin with, that’s proof itself that the mechanic is broken.

I shouldn’t have to burn 2-3 skills to make sure that the utility granted by the first skill actually works properly.

As far as dodging while stealthed is concerned, there are three problems with that solution (aside from the whole “I shouldn’t have to circumvent a broken mechanic” argument):

1. Not all windup abilities on NPCs are visible or well-telegraphed. This means that it’s not always possible to tell when a mob is still winding up a shot that needs to be dodged. Under the assumption that all aggro is broken off, since I’m in stealth, I’m still liable to take the shot to my face given a second or two, especially in the case of ranged attacks.

2. If I have to burn my dodge during stealth, I’ve been forced to use one of my finite evasion abilities to backup a failed evasion ability. This is a level of redundancy that makes one question why anybody would bother using stealth utilities to begin with, when there are more sure-fire utilities that work on their own.

3. While dodging, a thief is not repositioning, which is one of the key reasons to use stealth to begin with. With such a short duration on most stealth buffs, any time spent not repositioning is time wasted. Which essentially means that, any time you’re forced to dodge right after burning your stealth utility, you’re cutting your effective timer by 1/3, just to make sure the utility skill works properly.

You are basically complaining the AI is too intelligent. No player will just stop what they are doing because you enter stealth. They at least finish whatever move they are doing and will likely spam that area. If you stand still in stealth while a 100 blades warrior instagibs you well then……

So risen with huge clubs will continue their huge swing when you stealth, big deal. Dodge it!

metaphorm.6904:

seriously, this really IS a situation where you should stop complaining and just play more until you understand the class better. you seem to not understand the appropriate use of stealth and how it fits into the play dynamic of a Thief. its an offensive tool, not a defensive tool. its an opportunity to get in attacks without suffering counterattacks. its not a way to stay alive when you’re being attacked. until you understand that you will continue to think the ability is broken. it isn’t. you just don’t know how to play.

If the goal was to create an attack without counterattack, then why not just stick with blocks or evasions? They seem easier to code and less likely to throw balance out the window. Completely disappearing from your opponents’ sight seems overly dramatic if the only intent is to let the thief get a suckerpunch into the fight.

And mind you, this doesn’t just affect thieves. Mesmers also struggle with this issue, with their handful of stealth abilities.

Stiv.1820:

You are basically complaining the AI is too intelligent. No player will just stop what they are doing because you enter stealth. They at least finish whatever move they are doing and will likely spam that area. If you stand still in stealth while a 100 blades warrior instagibs you well then……

So risen with huge clubs will continue their huge swing when you stealth, big deal. Dodge it!

The problem isn’t with enemies that attack an area and you just happen to still be standing there, and get walloped by it. The problem is when the enemy continues to track you after the stealth has gone up. Strafing around an enemy’s side before his attack goes off doesn’t work when he still turns to target you. Popping stealth against ranged characters is pointless when their channeled skills continue to follow well after the buff has gone up.

Also, I’d like to note, if you maintain your stealth, any enemy who finishes their channeled ability will drop aggro and path back to their spawn point. If the AI was intended to be intelligent, it would continue poking around the area and swinging, hoping to hit something. But it doesn’t. It drops aggro and walks away. In light of this, the fact that it continues tracking you once you’re in stealth during channeled attacks is an anomaly in the behavior of the enemy AI.

I agree whole-heartedly. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE stealth. My thief dominates in a survivability and stealth build in both PvE and PvP. However, attacks that continue to track after you stealth is just ridiculous. Hell, I even use the Shadow Arts trait to blind enemies after I stealth, and all manner of ranged PvE attacks continue to hit after the first miss. When your opponent has literally vanished and you no longer have a trackable target, explain how that works. It makes Risen Putrifiers THAT much more annoying. Stealth → logically, he will miss with no target plus the fact he’s undead so a bit dull as well → nope, pulled

Channeled thing is hopefully a bug, agree there. If you dodge, you will avoid even if they track you for their swing. I’ve never had a mob attack more than once after stealth though.

Stiv.1820:

Channeled thing is hopefully a bug, agree there. If you dodge, you will avoid even if they track you for their swing. I’ve never had a mob attack more than once after stealth though.

Some channeled attacks are strings of attacks, like the wasp “fury” attacks, some mage channeled attacks, etc. (And keep in mind, they all continue tracking, so just strafing around to the side doesn’t put you out of range of the attack.)

But where this really hurts is when fighting multiple mobs at once. It’s near impossible for me (and I’m assuming many other people, but I won’t speak for them) to keep track of the attack animations of 3-4 mobs at once. Stealthing and reappearing is part of my kiting strategy while I let Death Blossom chew away at their hitpoints, and repeatedly getting pegged to the wall by stray arrows after I’ve already entered stealth goes a long way toward killing my survivability.

Actually stealth is working as intended. This game was built with the idea that you can dodge all attacks be it sword arrow or spell, they can all be dodged. Similarly if you are in their path you will get hit by said attack. Therefore, being stealthed doesn’t change your position in world space, nor does it transport you to some other dimension where you are invisible or some nonsense. You’re still there, just invisible. So if you stealth and they’re mid swing and you don’t dodge, expect to be hit. If there is a channeled spell in progress, same deal. The abilities run for their duration whether you stealth or not.

Vijil.5786:

Actually stealth is working as intended. This game was built with the idea that you can dodge all attacks be it sword arrow or spell, they can all be dodged. Similarly if you are in their path you will get hit by said attack. Therefore, being stealthed doesn’t change your position in world space, nor does it transport you to some other dimension where you are invisible or some nonsense. You’re still there, just invisible. So if you stealth and they’re mid swing and you don’t dodge, expect to be hit. If there is a channeled spell in progress, same deal. The abilities run for their duration whether you stealth or not.

If my character is invisible, tracking skills should stop tracking, as they can no longer see my character. This is logical and a simple concept to understand. If stealthing doesn’t immediately break off aggro, then there’s no reason to stealth to begin with, and I should just replace all my stealth utilities with something that’s actually going to work properly.

The problem isn’t that channeled skills keep working, it’s that they continue to track.

Also, please refer back to my post where I outline the 3 reasons why “just dodge after you stealth” isn’t a viable reason for stealth not breaking off attacks and tracking.

Vijil.5786:

Actually stealth is working as intended. This game was built with the idea that you can dodge all attacks be it sword arrow or spell, they can all be dodged. Similarly if you are in their path you will get hit by said attack. Therefore, being stealthed doesn’t change your position in world space, nor does it transport you to some other dimension where you are invisible or some nonsense. You’re still there, just invisible. So if you stealth and they’re mid swing and you don’t dodge, expect to be hit. If there is a channeled spell in progress, same deal. The abilities run for their duration whether you stealth or not.

Ok I get the point there that projectile still fly in the same direction as it was released/shot, but Rapid Fire still hit you in stealth no matter which direction you move and also Spatial Surge continue to focus down on you in stealth

The problem Grayfeld is having is that skills being used on a stealthed character will follow out ON the target in stealth thus partially negating the ‘confusion’ factor of stealth.

My problem with ‘fixing’ this is as follows:

• Stealth is not an evade. If I use a skill that tracks a target, and you stealth before its over, that’s your fault.
• Damage does not break stealth. Once the attack stops, keep moving.
• Incomplete actions do not break stealth. Ever rez/down a player in stealth?
• Stealth stacks in duration when gained from different sources
• Stealth makes you invisible. Doesn’t mean much to a computer but it confuses the hell out of a human being. Ever try just standing still and making him think he’s not tracking you?
• Stealth breaks target. Even if he’s channeling a skill, he doesn’t have you as a target anymore so chances are he’s going to reaquire someone else. At the very least he has to spend time reaquiring you.

So yeah, change all that and I’d be all for making stealth the ultimate ‘stop attacking me’ skill.

Singularity.1486:

Ok I get the point there that projectile still fly in the same direction as it was released/shot, but Rapid Fire still hit you in stealth no matter which direction you move and also Spatial Surge continue to focus down on you in stealth

Have you ever tried just quickly strafing back and forth during rapid shot? Depending on the range it’s a nearly sure-fire way to make every shot miss. Even if you’re not stealthed.

metaphorm.6904:

my suggestion is to play your Thief more and reconsider your opinions.

OK i am lvl 80,and i am rank 29 SPvP,so i figure i have played enough.
Here is my observation about stealth in SPvP:
1.Channeling abilities like Unload,Rapid Fire are hitting you in stealth no matter if you moved away from the place you stealthed.
2.Not channeling skills that require target like Eviscerate,Heartseeker are hitting you more that a second after you vanished.
3.When you brake stealth,one million of a second after that ,all mesmer illusions,pets,minions and so on are completely aware where are you and are fully unloading,charging or whatever they are doing.
Those things are annoying to say the least,but more like negating the very idea of stealth.

ZLE.8293:

metaphorm.6904:

my suggestion is to play your Thief more and reconsider your opinions.

OK i am lvl 80,and i am rank 29 SPvP,so i figure i have played enough.
Here is my observation about stealth in SPvP:
1.Channeling abilities like Unload,Rapid Fire are hitting you in stealth no matter if you moved away from the place you stealthed.
2.Not channeling skills that require target like Eviscerate,Heartseeker are hitting you more that a second after you vanished.
3.When you brake stealth,one million of a second after that ,all mesmer illusions,pets,minions and so on are completely aware where are you and are fully unloading,charging or whatever they are doing.
Those things are annoying to say the least,but more like negating the very idea of stealth.

Sorry for being brief, but I have simple game mechanic answers to these points:

1. Stealth is not meant to be a free dodge roll. If you’re cast on before you stealth, you still have to dodge the attack.
2. See #1
3. When you’re not in stealth, you’re not in stealth? I don’t understand…you want the mesmer clones to stop attacking you when you’re not stealthed?

I’m still seeing a lot of, “This is how things currently work, so suck it up.” I’m amazed that there are so many players who won’t think logically about how stealth currently works, and encourage the developers to make fixes to bring the mechanic into line with its intended usage.

Here’s what I think work and don’t work:

1. I have to agree that it’s not cool that channeled effects like unload can hit me after I stealth and move away from the place I entered stealth.
2. As for the channeled effects like meteor shower and other AoE’s I think it’s fair and good that they still hit me after stealth unless I dodge or move out of the area.
3. It’s ok that an Ettin swinging his club is going to hit me if I stealth and don’t dodge or move away.
4. If I’m becoming invisible my enemies are still able to hit me just by hitting auto attack if I move in front of their attacks.

Stealth is not a dodge, it’s a way for me to become invisible and confuse the kitten out of my enemy. So my first point is the one that need a fix. When a Ranger starts a channeled attack that’s not AoE, but channeled directly at me and I become invisible, how are he going to know where to shoot? I’m invisible, right? This need a fix, else stealth works flawless. If I’m getting hit by the Ettin’s club after I became invisible it’s my own fault

Redscope.6215:

ZLE.8293:

metaphorm.6904:

my suggestion is to play your Thief more and reconsider your opinions.

OK i am lvl 80,and i am rank 29 SPvP,so i figure i have played enough.
Here is my observation about stealth in SPvP:
1.Channeling abilities like Unload,Rapid Fire are hitting you in stealth no matter if you moved away from the place you stealthed.
2.Not channeling skills that require target like Eviscerate,Heartseeker are hitting you more that a second after you vanished.
3.When you brake stealth,one million of a second after that ,all mesmer illusions,pets,minions and so on are completely aware where are you and are fully unloading,charging or whatever they are doing.
Those things are annoying to say the least,but more like negating the very idea of stealth.

Sorry for being brief, but I have simple game mechanic answers to these points:

1. Stealth is not meant to be a free dodge roll. If you’re cast on before you stealth, you still have to dodge the attack.
2. See #1
3. When you’re not in stealth, you’re not in stealth? I don’t understand…you want the mesmer clones to stop attacking you when you’re not stealthed?

What is the purpose of stealth then?Hide your armors an weapons from the enemy,so he cannot determine your rank?Nothing against weapons swings and AOE,but if you are chasing someone and start channeling a skills and in the middle of the skill he turns around the corner you have “obscured”.But if in the middle of the skill he goes invisible you just continue to damage him like nothing happens?How about you start channeling a skill and a random class(kh kh warrior kh kh ) pop ups block skill for 3 seconds,and nothing happens,cuz he already started casting it and all he can do is dodge it?
1.Following attacks need something to follow…
2.Targeting something that you cannot see and you cannot target with TAB….excuse me sir…
3.Illusions find me when i appear out of line of sight.Are they illusions or Heat missiles?
And you are right ,you don’t understand.

ZLE.8293:

Redscope.6215:

ZLE.8293:

metaphorm.6904:

my suggestion is to play your Thief more and reconsider your opinions.

OK i am lvl 80,and i am rank 29 SPvP,so i figure i have played enough.
Here is my observation about stealth in SPvP:
1.Channeling abilities like Unload,Rapid Fire are hitting you in stealth no matter if you moved away from the place you stealthed.
2.Not channeling skills that require target like Eviscerate,Heartseeker are hitting you more that a second after you vanished.
3.When you brake stealth,one million of a second after that ,all mesmer illusions,pets,minions and so on are completely aware where are you and are fully unloading,charging or whatever they are doing.
Those things are annoying to say the least,but more like negating the very idea of stealth.

Sorry for being brief, but I have simple game mechanic answers to these points:

1. Stealth is not meant to be a free dodge roll. If you’re cast on before you stealth, you still have to dodge the attack.
2. See #1
3. When you’re not in stealth, you’re not in stealth? I don’t understand…you want the mesmer clones to stop attacking you when you’re not stealthed?

What is the purpose of stealth then?Hide your armors an weapons from the enemy,so he cannot determine your rank?Nothing against weapons swings and AOE,but if you are chasing someone and start channeling a skills and in the middle of the skill he turns around the corner you have “obscured”.But if in the middle of the skill he goes invisible you just continue to damage him like nothing happens?How about you start channeling a skill and a random class pop ups block skill for 3 seconds,and nothing happens,cuz you already started casting it and he have to dodge it?
1.Following attacks need something to follow…
2.Targeting something that you cannot see and you cannot target with TAB….excuse me sir…
3.Illusions find me when i appear out of line of sight.Are they illusions or Heat missiles?
And you are right ,you don’t understand.

the point is that in this thread there’s really lot of ignorance about the game itself, not only about stealth, and i would really start to ignore those people, because they’re simply not useful for this discussion to proceed ( altough there’s no need for this discussion, since stealth is simply bugged and needs fixing).

1. Channeling needs a target. There’s no “auto-tracking” without a target, in this game attacks are not “homing missiles” like in WoW.
This means that without a target, the channeling should be interrupted as soon as the stealthed target moves aside.
Thing that is not happening currently.

2. “leap” attacks and similar need a target to be landed, otherwise they’ll simply perform the full animation, carrying you to their full range.
When a thief/mesmer stealths, for a good second he’s still targettable by those attacks, since the animation stops on you instead of being performed to full range.

This is indeed a bug, since when trying this agains spamseekers ( best example), the first one after stealth will almost always land on you, while the next one will simply pass “through”, surpassing your location ( showing that it’s clearly a bug and not intended).

3. Basically i’ve noticed that any action started before your opponents stealths, will ALWAYS land when its cast time is finished.

This is the main gripe about stealth, since no matters if you stealth while your opponent is casting something: simply because he has given the command BEFORE you’ve stealthed his action will follow you.

This is particulary bad against AI, since they will follow you like “heat missiles” and show to everybody where you are.

Here’s what his issue is with Stealth in PvE (I believe).

It’s not a problem that a monster continues attacking after entering stealth. The problem is that the monster still acts like it can see you perfectly when it comes to channeled skills. For instance, take the Wasp enemies that use long chains of rapid attacks while sitting in place. That chain is one long channeled attack, and you can walk out of range, and walk in a circle around it while it’s still attacking, and it will constantly turn while stabbing to face you. That’s fine and all, but when you go into stealth, it acts in exactly the same way. You can drop a Shadow Refuge on the area for a long stealth, walk around in circles around an attacking Wasp while in stealth, and it will still constantly turn to face you even though it shouldn’t be able to see you. Same thing with stuff like bow Volleys and the like.

Gameplay wise it isn’t that big a deal for me, but it does seem odd. It just feels weird that you go invisible and still be attacked perfectly accurately by some archer’s volley like you didn’t stealth at all. No one is claiming that going into stealth should make you evade everything or immune to damage like a dodge roll or anything, just that going invisible should feel like, you know, going invisible.

omgwtflolbbl.7142:

Here’s what his issue is with Stealth in PvE (I believe).

It’s not a problem that a monster continues attacking after entering stealth. The problem is that the monster still acts like it can see you perfectly when it comes to channeled skills. For instance, take the Wasp enemies that use long chains of rapid attacks while sitting in place. That chain is one long channeled attack, and you can walk out of range, and walk in a circle around it while it’s still attacking, and it will constantly turn while stabbing to face you. That’s fine and all, but when you go into stealth, it acts in exactly the same way. You can drop a Shadow Refuge on the area for a long stealth, walk around in circles around an attacking Wasp while in stealth, and it will still constantly turn to face you even though it shouldn’t be able to see you. Same thing with stuff like bow Volleys and the like.

Gameplay wise it isn’t that big a deal for me, but it does seem odd. It just feels weird that you go invisible and still be attacked perfectly accurately by some archer’s volley like you didn’t stealth at all. No one is claiming that going into stealth should make you evade everything or immune to damage like a dodge roll or anything, just that going invisible should feel like, you know, going invisible.

I should point out that this is especially a huge pain in the butt for the trait that stealths you when you hit 25% health. It’s a great trait in theory, saving you at the last second from being killed… until you get gibbed by those channeled spells that didn’t stop when the auto-stealth triggered, and they chew through your last chunk of health.

I don’t get it. Stealth is not a shield it does not blind (on its own) it does not cancel incoming attacks and it is working properly. As far as the down state goes the only one that might be close to that good is Mesmer and the guardian one for sheer healing. You have a port a stealth and a get me out of combat free button before all that what more could you want?

TheGuy.3568:

You have a port a stealth and a get me out of combat free button before all that what more could you want?

Dude,are you really trying to put as much nonsense as it’s possible in one sentence?
1.No one want this,you imagine someone wants such thing.
2.Stealth is NO free…..At all…You have to either spend 6 initiative or alternatively use some 30+ CD skill to get 3-4 sec of stealth in which time you will maybe manage to put yourself in a better attacking position,while desperately trying to avoid multiple AOE,arc weapon swings,mines,traps and so on(which is OK,nobody said anything against AOE and 1 skill attacks).
3.How are explaining yourself “Out of combat”? Isn’t means that you HP will start to regenerate?Where did you read anything about that in this topic?
4.Yes Stealth isn’t Block.Thief doesn’t have Block because he isn’t supposed to “block” damage ,but he has given ways to avoid it…

Okay, I think communication is breaking down in this thread.

We can all agree that stealth is supposed to effectively make you invisible, right? Right.

Greyfield’s point is that stealth is not acting that way. Arrow volleys and spells will continue to home in on you when you should not be on their radar. This is not logical.

In order to get around this problem, you must dodge immediately after using stealth. If you dodge, then you are burning part of your valuable stealth time so that you don’t get hit by something that shouldn’t be able to see you. This is wasteful.

No one is saying that stealth should act as an automatic dodge or shield. It should, however, immediately remove you from line of sight. As it plays out right now, it does not. That makes it a broken mechanic.

I really don’t see what is happening here, when I play pvp and stealth everything ignores me. stuff stops attacking me and buggers off back on its leesh.

it seems that people are kind of mistaking the dodge mechanic for stealth and you are hit by enemies with long cast times. As a thief you can run through entire camps of enemies with the right utility skills and not bat an eye lid.

I tend to throw a dodge in as I enter stealth just in case but as for anything technically broken with stealth in the game engine i’d probably disagree.

Kuys.3812 and offcourse when you say PvP,you mean WvW right?
The Culling there sometimes will allow you to run trough entire camps of enemies ,even without “the right utility skills and not bat an eye lid”…

ZLE.8293:

Kuys.3812 and offcourse when you say PvP,you mean WvW right?
The Culling there sometimes will allow you to run trough entire camps of enemies ,even without “the right utility skills and not bat an eye lid”…

No when I refered to a camp of enemies I meant in PVE environments.

So no not talking about culling. I really don’t understand whats happening to people in this post. I am not trying to just intentionally say this to be difficult, It is just that from my perspective when i dissapear in PVE all enemies stop attacking and leesh back. I will shadow shot into a camp get a couple of enemies dodge twice and then use a stealth heal run through the rest hit a couple of shaow steps a dodge then a shadow refuge. maybe shadow step out of this and you can just run across maps with little to no problem.

I’m not refering to pvp in the slightest.

Redscope.6215:

Singularity.1486:

Ok I get the point there that projectile still fly in the same direction as it was released/shot, but Rapid Fire still hit you in stealth no matter which direction you move and also Spatial Surge continue to focus down on you in stealth

Have you ever tried just quickly strafing back and forth during rapid shot? Depending on the range it’s a nearly sure-fire way to make every shot miss. Even if you’re not stealthed.

It do seems to be an exploit >.>

Singularity.1486:

Redscope.6215:

Singularity.1486:

Ok I get the point there that projectile still fly in the same direction as it was released/shot, but Rapid Fire still hit you in stealth no matter which direction you move and also Spatial Surge continue to focus down on you in stealth

Have you ever tried just quickly strafing back and forth during rapid shot? Depending on the range it’s a nearly sure-fire way to make every shot miss. Even if you’re not stealthed.

It do seems to be an exploit >.>

Yeah, I forgot to touch on this earlier, but I’m almost positive this is a bug, and should be reported.

@Mrbig: nothing in this game requires a target. If I am using Heartseerk without a target to move somewhere quickly and happen to land next to a rabbit I will hit it. Same goes for if I land next to someone in stealth. If they don’t dodge they will get hit. The split second you enter stealth, you aren’t stealthed on their client side and HS will still go to that location. It’s a latency thing, you can still dodge.

I can use unload (or any ranged attack) pointed in the general direction of someone who has stealthed and hit them, even if I don’t start the unload until after they stealth.

This is all obviously by design. It’s real time combat with active dodging.

Stiv.1820:

@Mrbig: nothing in this game requires a target. If I am using Heartseerk without a target to move somewhere quickly and happen to land next to a rabbit I will hit it. Same goes for if I land next to someone in stealth. If they don’t dodge they will get hit. The split second you enter stealth, you aren’t stealthed on their client side and HS will still go to that location. It’s a latency thing, you can still dodge.

I can use unload (or any ranged attack) pointed in the general direction of someone who has stealthed and hit them, even if I don’t start the unload until after they stealth.

This is all obviously by design. It’s real time combat with active dodging.

You obviously missed the point about these abilities actually tracking through stealth, not just happening to hit by pure dumb luck.

I didn’t, I know channeled abilities continue if they started before stealthed. I was responding to mrbig’s statement/opinion that “Channeling needs a target”. One of the great things about this game is the fact that nothing requires a target.

While he may not have correctly worded it to fit your pedantic argument, he was correct. Skill tracking needs a target. Sure, you can spam your skills without a target all day, but unless you have a target selected, the skill will never track anything. The point he was making, by extension, is the fact that these skills (which will not track unless you have a target selected) should not be tracking once you lose your target (which is what happens when stealth is applied).

Stiv.1820:

@Mrbig: nothing in this game requires a target. If I am using Heartseerk without a target to move somewhere quickly and happen to land next to a rabbit I will hit it. Same goes for if I land next to someone in stealth. If they don’t dodge they will get hit. The split second you enter stealth, you aren’t stealthed on their client side and HS will still go to that location. It’s a latency thing, you can still dodge.

I can use unload (or any ranged attack) pointed in the general direction of someone who has stealthed and hit them, even if I don’t start the unload until after they stealth.

This is all obviously by design. It’s real time combat with active dodging.

This is not true.

Channeling/leaps and other kind of moves ( like illusions moves) require a target to be landed correctly.

Example:

My enemy is at 200 range. HS range is 300 ( for istance).

If i hit HS without a target, it will go to full range (300), while if i use it WITH a target ( being at 200 range), HS will carry me AT 200 RANGE.

If stealth was actually working correctly, a HS used against a thief that actually went into stealth RIGHT AFTER his opponent pushed the HS button, should carry the opponent to its full range ( 300), and i should be able to avoid it by simply walking away.

This is not the case. HS will aim at you,even if you move to the side, as long as the opponent pushed the button before you entered stealth, even if it take about half a second to land the hit.

This is no good. Skills like channeling, leaps, pets attacks and similar act like “heat missiles”. They should BY NO MEANS follow you, they should simply continue the animation as if there was no target.

Or rather:

1) Channeling attacks should simply continue aiming straight ahead ( instead of following your moves while stealthed) as soon as you stealth and move aside.

2) Pets should get disoriented as soon as you stealth, instead of attacking and following you while stealthed AS LONG AS THE COMMAND WAS GIVEN BEFORE STEALTH.
Moreover, pets should only attack you again if their master has targeted you again.

Currently, pets act like heat missiles, following you everywhere. AI becomes better than real player skill, and it’s used as an exploit ( even teached in other classes forum as a counter to thieves).
Also, 80% of the time pets totally ignore LoS.

3) Leap attacks should perform full animation when a thief stealths during their travel time, and should drop “auto-tracking”, meaning that if i stealth an move aside, they should ABSOLUTELY not hit me.

Example: if i use blinding power IMMEDIATLY after i see the war using bull’s charge ( meaning I have a good second before it lands on me) and move to the left, the warrior should ABSOLUTELY not follow my movement to the left and land the skill exactly where i am.
Because it would make no sense at all.

I know that from a programming standpoint it’s a lot of work, but those issues are really damaging thief survivability, even more knowing that 70% of our effective tournament builds are based on low HP /toughness and a single HS can deal about 1/4 of our total HP pool, even more if we’re with less than 50 % HP.

meh the only weird thing about stealth in this game is they added a whole Lot of drawbacks (cant cap, revealed debuff, positioning on abilities like backstab, channeled attacks hitting) when its not even perma stealth. I don’t even think half of that should be in a game where the min duration on a stealth ability is 10 seconds, here it is 3 lol.

Where are the drawbacks of a guardians super heals? Does it give him a damage debuff? does it give them an armor debuff? no drawbacks

It is supposed to be our survival tool, and instead it is a fluff mechanic. What other classes survival tools have drawbacks like that? Once the rendering issues are fixed this will be even more apparent

Knyx if you are asking the class that have perma-passive regen and passive burning attacks for drawbacks,they just CAN’T understand you.