Please give staff stealth

Please give staff stealth

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Posted by: Steinpilz.5078

Steinpilz.5078

I think staff 4 should be a smoke combo field (and staff 2 probably a blast finisher).
Then Hook Strike would make sense.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

No, it’d be too much OP, unless they change Hook Strike and lower at least the KD duration.

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Posted by: Nocta.5274

Nocta.5274

Hook strike is powerful ONLY because staff doesn’t have stealth access by itself. Daredevil wasn’t about stealth, it makles sense you don’t get a smoke field on the elite spec set.

Staff is really good already. If you want to use Hook strike more, take a stealth utility, like Blinding powder.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

wow man, thats a very silly idea lol. staff is perfect (or in a very good spot) as it is. stop being greedy.

Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

If anything, a dark field, but after playing staff for a while now, it probably doesn’t need stealth from weapon skills.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

SA with steal on stealth and blinding powder make Staff a very effective weapon set. It does mean dropping the big damage of either the CS or DA trait lines but that knockdown makes landing vault 1 or 2 times a snap. Once BV cuts through blocks I can certainly see a substantial amount of added pain to several builds.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Suuuure, only if vault dmg gets cut by 70%~

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

They’d have to nerf hook strike.

And screw that.

Hook strike is boss.

They gave staff a stealth skill because it’s a thief weapon, not because it’s a stealth-centric weapon. It’s meant to be an opener, not a chain skill.

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Daredevil staff is based around evasion not stealth for defensive mitigation, what you are asking for would cause so much QQ that it would see Thief nerfed yet again.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I’m not so sure staff is optimal in PvE actually. I can see the arguments as hook strike not needing a smoke field on staff itself in pvp but on the Hot maps – or against any boss with defiance bar – nope – too little to be effective.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

steal on stealth

GIMME PLZ!

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Posted by: caerulean.4837

caerulean.4837

I’d definitely rather wait for a steath-based elite spec, maybe we’ll get a main hand weapon that’s all about stealthy fun time.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I’m not so sure staff is optimal in PvE actually. I can see the arguments as hook strike not needing a smoke field on staff itself in pvp but on the Hot maps – or against any boss with defiance bar – nope – too little to be effective.

Staff works very well in PVE given unlike WvW or PvP critters rarely block of evade a vault. If one traits IP one can get a whole lot of health by vaulting into a mob. This works very well in HOT as example taking out those raptors.

I use Staff in conjunction with p?p for the meta events in TD and Auric basin. Staff aoe vaulted into a group of chak/mordrem takes them down fast. I will switch off to p/p when fighting things like the Chak crown surrounded by the gunk or the Gerent.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Staff works very well in PVE given unlike WvW or PvP critters rarely block of evade a vault. If one traits IP one can get a whole lot of health by vaulting into a mob. This works very well in HOT as example taking out those raptors.

I use Staff in conjunction with p?p for the meta events in TD and Auric basin. Staff aoe vaulted into a group of chak/mordrem takes them down fast. I will switch off to p/p when fighting things like the Chak crown surrounded by the gunk or the Gerent.

or against any boss with defiance bar – nope – too little to be effective.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Staff works very well in PVE given unlike WvW or PvP critters rarely block of evade a vault. If one traits IP one can get a whole lot of health by vaulting into a mob. This works very well in HOT as example taking out those raptors.

I use Staff in conjunction with p?p for the meta events in TD and Auric basin. Staff aoe vaulted into a group of chak/mordrem takes them down fast. I will switch off to p/p when fighting things like the Chak crown surrounded by the gunk or the Gerent.

or against any boss with defiance bar – nope – too little to be effective.

Just because a Boss has a deifance bar, it does not mean one forced to use CC skills against it.

PVE does not include just bosses with defiance bars. HOT maps have all manner of creatures without defiance bars. Staff works great there.

I was responding to your entire statement and not just the bit you tried to cut out of it after the word OR.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Raptors don’t have a defiance bar – thief’s methods to CC are subpar in comparison most if not all other classes and useless against bosses/mobs with defiance bar which is a thing especially in HoT.

Edit: Grammar

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Raptors don’t have a defiance bar – thief’s methods to CC are subpar in comparison most if not all other classes and useless against bosses/mobs with defiance bar which is a thing especially in HoT.

Edit: Grammar

Against the Gherent you do not want to use CC. You just pound out damage as quickly as possible and the staff does that.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

can you please try to get the point and not go offtopic because you got things wrong and are too smug to admit it? thanks!

ETA. Let me guess, your answer on this will be “Excuse me, but I’m playing this game too followed by more offtopic”.

The topic of this thread is: Please give staff stealth because it’s very hard to land a hook strike without the possibility to stealth on the weapon itself.
One can argue that this is good enough for pvp/wvw – for PvE it isn’t because the bosses and some vets carry defiance bars nowadays. So while my Revenant breaks about 70% of a champ’s defiance bar, my thief gets 2%. That paired with the inability to use this skill often because I don’t have a smoke field on that weapon. So if it’s meant to be completely stealthless, then make Hook Strike work without stealth and give it more power in at least PvE.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

The staff mathematically pumps out the best DPS of all of the thief weapons right now.

It may change on 1/26, but currently it offers the best. As for defiance, you let someone else in your party take care of it when it matters.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

can you please try to get the point and not go offtopic because you got things wrong and are too smug to admit it? thanks!

ETA. Let me guess, your answer on this will be “Excuse me, but I’m playing this game too followed by more offtopic”.

The topic of this thread is: Please give staff stealth because it’s very hard to land a hook strike without the possibility to stealth on the weapon itself.
One can argue that this is good enough for pvp/wvw – for PvE it isn’t because the bosses and some vets carry defiance bars nowadays. So while my Revenant breaks about 70% of a champ’s defiance bar, my thief gets 2%. That paired with the inability to use this skill often because I don’t have a smoke field on that weapon. So if it’s meant to be completely stealthless, then make Hook Strike work without stealth and give it more power in at least PvE.

I find no need for a smoke field on staff in PVE or on the HOT maps.

One does not need stealth on the Staff set in order to achieve stealth. Traiting SA with BP on theutility bar and hidden thief on a 20 second steal and you get in your hook strikes .

Hook strike is a very powerful skill and must be limited in some manner.

For the thief there Soft control on the Staff build which will break defiance bars such as blind and cripple and weakness. Basi venom is also extremely powerful for taking down defiance bars as is scorpion wire. If using pistol off hand alternate weapon set as many staff users do for the smoke field and bound stealth , one also has head shots to break down that bar.

Addendum . it occurred to me that I missed a whole pile of other means of breaking down a defiance bar by a thief. Tripwire as example will take off 300 points, fully half of a creature with 600. the knockdown on staff when you do get stealth should be some 200 worth. This of course means if hook strike did not require stealth three spams of it would totally break the bar on many of those bosses. We also have launch in the new impact strike which is preceded by a daze which should rip a huge chuck of a defiance bar away.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

The staff mathematically pumps out the best DPS of all of the thief weapons right now.

It may change on 1/26, but currently it offers the best. As for defiance, you let someone else in your party take care of it when it matters.

Pretty hard with 2 in wvw.

Or on the Hot maps for that matter – the defiance bar annoys me a lot of times – maybe it’s simply bad designed. And with it the weapons of the elites, minus thief.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Run S/D for the long daze on the stealth attack, use BV, and auto-weakness + SoH will be plenty for a tower lord.

Staff isn’t a stealth or CC-focused weapon, nor should it be with the damage it offers.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I went in solo with staff just to see how hard it was to break down a typical defiance bar in HOT. I chose one of the creatures with a 600 strong bar which tends to be the amount the larger creatures (veterans/champions etc) have.

I traited tripwire and stealthed using SR then ran over the top of a creature. I dropped tripwire on him and loaded my BV, I made one attack out of stealth with the staff using hook strike and the defiance bar was gone. Fully half the bar was removed before I left stealth and the remainder with my first attack.

HARD cc is much more effective then soft cc. If one is concerned about removing defiance bars get some hard CC. Staff is near the top of the weapon sets thief has when it comes to hard CC .

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

In PvE with Impact Strike + Uppercut + Palm Strike we can pretty much deplete almost all break bars in solo.

If you need more hard CC, just bring pistol off hand in the 2nd set and bound/HS on BP, switch to staff and use Hook Strike too.

It’s not really an issue.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

What if I don’t want to have pistol as my second set? And that’s kind of the point. I’m really sure I tried hook in PVE on the HoT maps and my impact was minimal, so either a bug, or I remember things wrong – I’ll test it once I have my computer back. Maybe.
Anyway – Staff + SB is in my opinion a far better combination for the hot maps than staff + /P – but yeah, staff + P/P could work – still I’d be bound to use each set for at least 9 seconds.
It may be that the hook was a cheeky extra but it doesn’t make too much sense.

ETA: Most engineer weapons have skills like this – they need to switch back and forth to do a combo – with the difference that their weaponsets have no cooldowns (to switch) – so this skill is rather badly designed in my eyes.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Billy.1879

Billy.1879

How many people run blinding powder to use hook strike?

Stealth should be our kitten f3 so we can access short bow, S/P and PP outside of having to drop a utility slot on it.

Thieves should be MVP stealth.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

As I said, just use S/D.

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Posted by: Xiahou Mao.9701

Xiahou Mao.9701

thief’s methods to CC are subpar in comparison most if not all other classes and useless against bosses/mobs with defiance bar which is a thing especially in HoT.

Fist Flurry > Palm Strike and Impact Strike > Uppercut are enough to fully deplete a defiance bar in dungeons/fractals/five man content without any help from anyone else. The CC is there, should you choose to use it. Using those utility skills to force the break also allows you to expend all your initiative afterwards to burst the vulnerable target while it takes extra damage.

Upscaled open world HoT events are going to be a different story, but in those no one class is going to be able to deplete the bar by themselves. Something like Revenant Staff 5 is the exception rather than the rule, and it’s far more likely to be nerfed to a reasonable level than for any other class to have a CC skill buffed to match it.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

How many people run blinding powder to use hook strike?

Any thief who PvP with the staff.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I’m used to soloing towers with D/D and without CC. But I always feel sorry for that person who caps a tower with me as they will in 95% of all cases be the target while I stand still behind the lord. Best was duo-loing SM – my buddy cried because the Lord hit that hard and I hadn’t had a scratch – I tried to adopt him to be my pet.
Maybe the defiance bar should just be designed better as the mobs that carry it mostly stayed the same and still hit as many times as before, just that they can’t be interrupted now, except if the defiance bar is up and ready to be taken down. In the end; it doesn’t matter that much just that I wonder why every class got that much CC apparently while thief got only one they can’t really use (and seemed weak to me) – but again: I’ll try it when I’m back.

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Posted by: Billy.1879

Billy.1879

How many people run blinding powder to use hook strike?

Any thief who PvP with the staff.

I don’t think that’s working out to well for them, poor lads

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

Works fine for a lot of us, boy. But not just for hook strike

Fat Disgrace (banned) Man Flu Survivor – war/The Cabbage -Thief (gunners hold / [TaG])

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

But not just for hook strike

So that’s where my cookies went.. ok…

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

Only want pudding

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Just take x/P offhand with the gain ini on swap trait and blinding powder, gives you enough stealth to function plus a ranged burst.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Of all the off hands to use with staff I found p/p works about the best. It just seems to compliment staff best in the extra utility it offers.

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Posted by: Seabreeze.8437

Seabreeze.8437

As it’s already been stated, the Daredevil elite spec is not about stealth.

Hence, the name Daredevil.