I main a Thief, so this is not your typical “A Thief beat me, please nerf!” thread.
Please increase the initiative cost for Heartseaker. It infuriates me when I see my fellow Thieves mashing the hell out of their Heartseaker keybind.
No wonder these forums are littered with “Thieves are OP!” threads.
Heartseaker not only hits hard, it costs next to nothing to use AND lets you stick to your opponent like glue.
I can’t see this being changed in the foreseeable future because it’s been like this for so long, but I beg of you guys… stop mashing your heartseaker keybind (or clicking?). It’s extremely cheese and makes Thieves look like a terrible class.
If i am facing a thief and he spam HS i dont see myself losing in any possible way. unless i am facing a 1vX but then its wouldnt be a HS problem but a outnembered problem.
If i see a friend thief and he spam HS i feel sorry for him cause that will only kill (IF LUCKY) unexperienced people.
I main a thief too, and if I were to spam HS I would surely die…
If you’re killing or watching people kill players with HS spam they must be killing very inexperienced players. I know if a thief tried that on a good player they’d swat them off like a fly.
He might be on to something….I do remember awhile back there was a specific trait and setup for 1 hand dagger, and HS spammage. The funny thing, it actually worked.
But I don’t know if I’d like increased initiative for HS…it’s great for running away from outmatched fights..
If i am facing a thief and he spam HS i dont see myself losing in any possible way. unless i am facing a 1vX but then its wouldnt be a HS problem but a outnembered problem.
If i see a friend thief and he spam HS i feel sorry for him cause that will only kill (IF LUCKY) unexperienced people.
^ this
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
I don’t get it. spam2-thieves are free kills, especially for other thieves. Stealth (they lose target), wait until their bunnyhopping depleted all of their initiative and snuff them out.
Other classes can use blocks and conveniently keep the exhausted thief in melee reach.
Former running-really-fast-man. Now proud member of Revenant clan.
I think that the hs spam op, thieves are skilless noobs mentality is now a component of the genetic code of the playerbase.
No matter if you play sword or pistol mainhand, if you beat your opponent you are a skillless hs spamming noob. It’s a pavlov reflex.
Same thing goes for rangers being bad, or warriors being faceroll (despite the fact that warrior was the most kitten class when the game launched in PvP).
Yeah... Because - effectively - putting every weapon skill you have on cooldown to spam heartseeker - most of which will miss due to evades and blinds if your opponent isn’t completely new to combat - leaving yourself vulnerable but for some utility skills which maybe used to either escape or stealth, is overpowered. Stealth leads to a reset except that after the next set of spams, there is no shadow refuge to reset again. Escape is something a thief can do well, but of course they can be caught and the heartseeker spamming type are hardly skilled.
It’s a "that’s annoying" issue. Definitely not a "that’s OP!" issue. Of course some new to PvP may indeed view it as overpowered, but in any game with various classes, there will be some that are easily superior than others when pitting noob against noob.
I main a Guardian and Heartseeker needs a buff not a nerf so that it’ll be spammed more. That way I can continue to laugh moreso than I do now as I proceed to obliterate said HS spammer.
So you’re saying that even though a skill is balanced (not too powerful, not too bad), just because a large portion of unsuccessful people are spamming HS (and getting beaten btw), the skill has to be nerfed?
kitten , we’re lucky you’re not a staff in balance section :P
As I said already, it’s very cheese and makes the class look bad.
No it doesn’t make the class look bad, it makes the person playing a thief and spamming HS to look bad, that’s what everyone here was on about, maybe you missed that part.
In games in general the term “cheese” holds no weight since one has the ability to use anything and everything in it’s set boundries. The sweet spots tends to be called “cheese” due to their effectiveness, but really it’s only a matter of time before decent players find it’s weaknesses and exploit them. Same thing with HS spammers, when the game first came out, sure, HS spammers had an easy time killing majority, now it beats only the inexperienced ones.
Heartseeker spam only comes across that way because it buffers into itself and you’ll cast alot more than you think you have, exacerbated by lag/fps etc. However, there is some issue with how, when the enemy is below 25% hp, it’s pretty much always the best option.
So I’ve recently been in sPvP and pretty much any thief that opens with HS spam or at any time spam HS when the opponent is still >25% health, they usually end up dying or wasting a utility while the opponent basically shakes it off by using CC/conditions/just randomly hitting the thief.
So, HS spam from a thief is often a free kill or they stealthing away (effectively accomplishing nothing but waste their own utility).
However, I do think Heartseeker can be modified. Any strike against an opponent while below 25% HP should have increased initiative. Another punishment would be also increasing initiative if the opponent has more than 75% HP. It would really punish random HS spam and make these beginner thieves how to play the game.
SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.
Another punishment would be also increasing initiative if the opponent has more than 75% HP. It would really punish random HS spam and make these beginner thieves how to play the game.
Besides the kill finisher Heart Seeker is also a utility skill providing a gap closer and a leap finisher and neither of these uses should be punished, at least not based on a spam=bad argument.
Another punishment would be also increasing initiative if the opponent has more than 75% HP. It would really punish random HS spam and make these beginner thieves how to play the game.
Besides the kill finisher Heart Seeker is also a utility skill providing a gap closer and a leap finisher and neither of these uses should be punished, at least not based on a spam=bad argument.
Definately this. Whenever I see a field to jump into, I quicky HS into it.
I’d say nerf ally vision before nerfing HS. I get where you’re coming from, since I see thieves doing this all the time and often dying. Doesn’t mean nerf the skill, its just bad players making bad decisions.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
I’d say nerf ally vision before nerfing HS. I get where you’re coming from, since I see thieves doing this all the time and often dying. Doesn’t mean nerf the skill, its just bad players making bad decisions.
Yes, and to encourage bad players to get better and spread into different builds. Maybe the best course of action is for Anet to push them in the right direction by altering their beloved HS spam.
It really can’t be as terrible as some people are making it out to be, otherwise no one would bother using it.
I’d say nerf ally vision before nerfing HS. I get where you’re coming from, since I see thieves doing this all the time and often dying. Doesn’t mean nerf the skill, its just bad players making bad decisions.
Yes, and to encourage bad players to get better and spread into different builds. Maybe the best course of action is for Anet to push them in the right direction by altering their beloved HS spam.
It really can’t be as terrible as some people are making it out to be, otherwise no one would bother using it.
You realise that this threads tend people to spam hs? Because some people cannot find their dodge key and so they think that hs is op.
Srsly, I think I can beat a hs spammer with a warrior, guardian, engi, thief without even moving.
I’d say nerf ally vision before nerfing HS. I get where you’re coming from, since I see thieves doing this all the time and often dying. Doesn’t mean nerf the skill, its just bad players making bad decisions.
Yes, and to encourage bad players to get better and spread into different builds. Maybe the best course of action is for Anet to push them in the right direction by altering their beloved HS spam.
It really can’t be as terrible as some people are making it out to be, otherwise no one would bother using it.
You realise that this threads tend people to spam hs? Because some people cannot find their dodge key and so they think that hs is op.
Srsly, I think I can beat a hs spammer with a warrior, guardian, engi, thief without even moving.
The denial is strong in this thread lol
Its a strong ability, too strong imo for an auto target with so many extras (leap finisher, high damage under 25%, gap closer)
Thieves have enough on demand burst, they can be stressful to fight against, they dont need extra burst
The denial is strong in this thread lol
Its a strong ability, too strong imo for an auto target with so many extras (leap finisher, high damage under 25%, gap closer)
Thieves have enough on demand burst, they can be stressful to fight against, they dont need extra burst
I wonder how long it takes for someone to reply now with “if you die to HS you’re bad, I never die to HS because I’m amazing!”
The only way you’re dying to a thief spamming HS is if they’re full glass. Meaning an apothecary thief running 0/0/6/4/4 can do 4K damage to them with a single backstab.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
The denial is strong in this thread lol
Its a strong ability, too strong imo for an auto target with so many extras (leap finisher, high damage under 25%, gap closer)
Thieves have enough on demand burst, they can be stressful to fight against, they dont need extra burst
I wonder how long it takes for someone to reply now with “if you die to HS you’re bad, I never die to HS because I’m amazing!”
Or something along those lines.
How about something to the effect of HS does less DPS than autoattack above 50% health, about equivalent between 50% and 25% and superior damage only below 25%. This means that if someone is dying to HS at above 25%, they would be dying even faster against just autoattack. Meanwhile, the thieves spamming HS at the higher levels of health could be saving their initiative for more effective uses.
HS should not be changed because above 25% it fills the role of utility with a leap finisher and gap closer. Below that it fills the role of a player finisher. Spamming it outside of these 2 cases us a waste of initiative, but it’s not the role of the game to spoonfeed you that fact, just like it doesn’t stop eles from using blast finishers if they didn’t put down a field to finish. Nerfing this skill just to show newer players how/when to use this skill just nerfs the utility side of it for potentially speeding up someone’s learning curve is a bad idea.
The denial is strong in this thread lol
Its a strong ability, too strong imo for an auto target with so many extras (leap finisher, high damage under 25%, gap closer)
Thieves have enough on demand burst, they can be stressful to fight against, they dont need extra burst
I wonder how long it takes for someone to reply now with “if you die to HS you’re bad, I never die to HS because I’m amazing!”
Or something along those lines.
How about something to the effect of HS does less DPS than autoattack above 50% health, about equivalent between 50% and 25% and superior damage only below 25%. This means that if someone is dying to HS at above 25%, they would be dying even faster against just autoattack. Meanwhile, the thieves spamming HS at the higher levels of health could be saving their initiative for more effective uses.
HS should not be changed because above 25% it fills the role of utility with a leap finisher and gap closer. Below that it fills the role of a player finisher. Spamming it outside of these 2 cases us a waste of initiative, but it’s not the role of the game to spoonfeed you that fact, just like it doesn’t stop eles from using blast finishers if they didn’t put down a field to finish. Nerfing this skill just to show newer players how/when to use this skill just nerfs the utility side of it for potentially speeding up someone’s learning curve is a bad idea.
You should be allowed to use it as a leap and a gap closer. I don’t think you should be able to spam it though.
Making it cost slightly more may also put an end to the “perma stealth thieves are op”
The denial is strong in this thread lol
Its a strong ability, too strong imo for an auto target with so many extras (leap finisher, high damage under 25%, gap closer)
Thieves have enough on demand burst, they can be stressful to fight against, they dont need extra burst
I wonder how long it takes for someone to reply now with “if you die to HS you’re bad, I never die to HS because I’m amazing!”
Or something along those lines.
How about something to the effect of HS does less DPS than autoattack above 50% health, about equivalent between 50% and 25% and superior damage only below 25%. This means that if someone is dying to HS at above 25%, they would be dying even faster against just autoattack. Meanwhile, the thieves spamming HS at the higher levels of health could be saving their initiative for more effective uses.
HS should not be changed because above 25% it fills the role of utility with a leap finisher and gap closer. Below that it fills the role of a player finisher. Spamming it outside of these 2 cases us a waste of initiative, but it’s not the role of the game to spoonfeed you that fact, just like it doesn’t stop eles from using blast finishers if they didn’t put down a field to finish. Nerfing this skill just to show newer players how/when to use this skill just nerfs the utility side of it for potentially speeding up someone’s learning curve is a bad idea.
You should be allowed to use it as a leap and a gap closer. I don’t think you should be able to spam it though.
Making it cost slightly more may also put an end to the “perma stealth thieves are op”
Being able to spam it is in line with how the designers want the thief to be able to stick to an opponent. This is easily counterable with cripple, chill, immobilize, or any hard CC.
Making it cost more would do nothing to “perma stealth thieves OP” as it now requires utilities to maintain that anyway. Also incresing the initiative cost of that combo from 9 (3/4 of the total initiative pool) to any more than that would make it virtually unusable.
Thinking on it after a while since my last post, the only time a thief should logically be HS spamming is if they’re trying to catch a runner to take them out, or to just get across the WvW map faster. otherwise, it really shouldn’t be spammed at all if possible.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I’d say nerf ally vision before nerfing HS. I get where you’re coming from, since I see thieves doing this all the time and often dying. Doesn’t mean nerf the skill, its just bad players making bad decisions.
Yes, and to encourage bad players to get better and spread into different builds. Maybe the best course of action is for Anet to push them in the right direction by altering their beloved HS spam.
It really can’t be as terrible as some people are making it out to be, otherwise no one would bother using it.
You realise that this threads tend people to spam hs? Because some people cannot find their dodge key and so they think that hs is op.
Srsly, I think I can beat a hs spammer with a warrior, guardian, engi, thief without even moving.
…………..
I give up.. having to keep repeating myself.
Maybe it should be a hint to you that you are wrong. As others have told you, HS spam isn’t really effective against anything other than the worst players. When above 50% health, a HS doesn’t do much more damage than a regular auto attack. So, if someone wants to HS spam, let them. They are an easy kill.
Think about it this way…. would you rather someone sit there auto attacking you and still have a full initiative pool, or someone spam HS, and be out of initiative?
I’d say nerf ally vision before nerfing HS. I get where you’re coming from, since I see thieves doing this all the time and often dying. Doesn’t mean nerf the skill, its just bad players making bad decisions.
Yes, and to encourage bad players to get better and spread into different builds. Maybe the best course of action is for Anet to push them in the right direction by altering their beloved HS spam.
It really can’t be as terrible as some people are making it out to be, otherwise no one would bother using it.
You realise that this threads tend people to spam hs? Because some people cannot find their dodge key and so they think that hs is op.
Srsly, I think I can beat a hs spammer with a warrior, guardian, engi, thief without even moving.
…………..
I give up.. having to keep repeating myself.
Maybe it should be a hint to you that you are wrong. As others have told you, HS spam isn’t really effective against anything other than the worst players. When above 50% health, a HS doesn’t do much more damage than a regular auto attack. So, if someone wants to HS spam, let them. They are an easy kill.
Think about it this way…. would you rather someone sit there auto attacking you and still have a full initiative pool, or someone spam HS, and be out of initiative?
I’m giving my opinion, how can I be wrong?
Also, did you even bother to read the thread?
Not once have I said that HS is good/bad/whatever. I’ve said (several times now) that I still see countless people spamming it for whatever reason they may have.
If I’m in SPvP and I have someone on my team who thinks it’s a good idea to do that, no.. I shouldn’t just sit there and “let them” do it (although in the end it’s up to them). I’ll ask them to look into a proper build where they can be of use to the team.
Let’s look it from another perspective. When I roam in WvW I want good fights, not fights I can tell right away that I’m going to win.
I don’t want a fight where a Thief will just HS spam me. I want a Fight where I have to actually put effort in.
I’m not sure what your preferences are (or many others on this thread) but if you like free kills, that’s entirely up to you.
The denial is strong in this thread lol
Its a strong ability, too strong imo for an auto target with so many extras (leap finisher, high damage under 25%, gap closer)
Thieves have enough on demand burst, they can be stressful to fight against, they dont need extra burst
I wonder how long it takes for someone to reply now with “if you die to HS you’re bad, I never die to HS because I’m amazing!”
Or something along those lines.
How about something to the effect of HS does less DPS than autoattack above 50% health, about equivalent between 50% and 25% and superior damage only below 25%. This means that if someone is dying to HS at above 25%, they would be dying even faster against just autoattack. Meanwhile, the thieves spamming HS at the higher levels of health could be saving their initiative for more effective uses.
HS should not be changed because above 25% it fills the role of utility with a leap finisher and gap closer. Below that it fills the role of a player finisher. Spamming it outside of these 2 cases us a waste of initiative, but it’s not the role of the game to spoonfeed you that fact, just like it doesn’t stop eles from using blast finishers if they didn’t put down a field to finish. Nerfing this skill just to show newer players how/when to use this skill just nerfs the utility side of it for potentially speeding up someone’s learning curve is a bad idea.
You should be allowed to use it as a leap and a gap closer. I don’t think you should be able to spam it though.
Making it cost slightly more may also put an end to the “perma stealth thieves are op”
Then that’s an issue with stealth, and not HS. HS has more uses than SA thieves roaming in wvw. There is no need to nerf it because of troll builds, and there is no reason to nerf it because bad players are spamming it thinking its effective that way. Let the trolls be annoying in a game mode that they hardly have any place in, and let the bad players figure it out on their own.
Only thing HS could use is less damage at the higher health brackets and more damage (very slightly more) at lower health brackets so those using it for damage correctly are rewarded and those using it for damage because their 1 key is broken are laughed at. It’s a good finisher skill for the dagger kit if used right, but it also has a draw back of locking you in the animation meaning easy counter cc towards it.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
