Can we get Revealed time normalized in PvE and PvP?
Having it at 4 secs in sPvP is probably the main reason I can never stick with it. I can get used to it after a few games but having to go through that every time I hop into PvP is frustrating. I play WvW primarily and sPvP (casually) on the side, mainly because of this split.
I would of course prefer it to be 3 secs in both PvE and PvP for a few reasons but mainly because D/D becomes far inferior to other weapon sets with the 4 sec reveal. While most weapon sets on Thief do not suffer from the 4 sec reveal. Sword auto chain and d/p auto chain + blinding powder both equal almost exactly 4 seconds, making getting a feel for the comboes with those weapons feel pretty smooth at 4 seconds. Dagger auto chain + cloak and dagger takes almost exactly 3 second, making the 3 second reveal feel natural and causing it to feel very strange when it changes to 4 seconds in sPvP.
Also the main reason the thread is a question is because many things were normalized during the HoT balance changes. I’m not sure if everything was, but a lot of things at lease. I’m curious if this can join them.
Fun fact (iirc):
The change was actually brought in for WvW as a counter measure of culling problems the game had with stealth in there, which resulted in fewinvisible frames for thieves even after reveal.
I guess it stayed in spvp because the devs didn’t like to redo their current change in balance that quickly since the culling problem was solved soon after that.
You know pride ’n stuff.
Fun fact (iirc):
The change was actually brought in for WvW as a counter measure of culling problems the game had with stealth in there, which resulted in fewinvisible frames for thieves even after reveal.
I guess it stayed in spvp because the devs didn’t like to redo their current change in balance that quickly since the culling problem was solved soon after that.
You know pride ’n stuff.
It was never 4s in WvW, or if it was, it didn’t last beyond a patch cycle. I do believe it was done as a balance change for sPvP as the meta back when it was implemented was focused heavily on hyper-aggressive DPS from all classes, and stealth-based builds were just too strong with too few windows to attack them. At release, the revealed condition didn’t even exist, so stealth classes could repeatedly attack from stealth or re-gain it before it expired. This early change was just experimental I believe.
I’d argue at this point the duration could absolutely be changed to 3s, but it’d need some monitoring and might need revisiting with future changes to the sPvP meta.
Fun fact (iirc):
The change was actually brought in for WvW as a counter measure of culling problems the game had with stealth in there, which resulted in fewinvisible frames for thieves even after reveal.
I guess it stayed in spvp because the devs didn’t like to redo their current change in balance that quickly since the culling problem was solved soon after that.
You know pride ’n stuff.
It was never 4s in WvW, or if it was, it didn’t last beyond a patch cycle. I do believe it was done as a balance change for sPvP as the meta back when it was implemented was focused heavily on hyper-aggressive DPS from all classes, and stealth-based builds were just too strong with too few windows to attack them. At release, the revealed condition didn’t even exist, so stealth classes could repeatedly attack from stealth or re-gain it before it expired. This early change was just experimental I believe.
I’d argue at this point the duration could absolutely be changed to 3s, but it’d need some monitoring and might need revisiting with future changes to the sPvP meta.
It was in PvE/WvW. Lots of thieves left and I don’t think it even lasted two weeks.
Fun fact (iirc):
The change was actually brought in for WvW as a counter measure of culling problems the game had with stealth in there, which resulted in fewinvisible frames for thieves even after reveal.
I guess it stayed in spvp because the devs didn’t like to redo their current change in balance that quickly since the culling problem was solved soon after that.
You know pride ’n stuff.
It was never 4s in WvW, or if it was, it didn’t last beyond a patch cycle. I do believe it was done as a balance change for sPvP as the meta back when it was implemented was focused heavily on hyper-aggressive DPS from all classes, and stealth-based builds were just too strong with too few windows to attack them. At release, the revealed condition didn’t even exist, so stealth classes could repeatedly attack from stealth or re-gain it before it expired. This early change was just experimental I believe.
I’d argue at this point the duration could absolutely be changed to 3s, but it’d need some monitoring and might need revisiting with future changes to the sPvP meta.
It was in PvE/WvW. Lots of thieves left and I don’t think it even lasted two weeks.
This is true. I actually took a break for a month or so because of this change. Felt I was too used to the old system to comfortably play and wasn’t having fun. Now, since it is split, I mostly only WvW.
I do agree though of course. All changes should be monitored after they’re released. Unsplitting it would definitely help take down the wall that keeps a lot of thieves out of sPvP. Is that good? I think so.
Yep. I also feel They should ‘normalize’ reveal.
Anet added and will add more hardcounters to stealth, nerfed burst and survivability of thieves. There is no point in having a 4sec reveal in pvp anymore (if it ever was necessary). All it does is making it harder for d/d to survive between stealthing since death blossom is Not a real evade which you can count on.
They didn’t mention it specifically but they did say that trying to balance everything with all the split skills between sPvP and PvE was too much. I imagine if that’s the case than revealed will be 3 sec in sPvP.
i didnt even know it was 4 sec in pvp thats stupid. if ill ever go into pvp with my ascended pve thief i will mess everything up xD. but from a balance point of view we need to see how the damage increases in pvp as stealth does not have a use for capturing points but for killing the people who def/roam
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
You posted this in the Thief and PvE areas. What are you even making a poll for? You should have just made it
[] Reveal normalized 3 seconds
[] Don’t care.
And left it at that. xD
Is the general discussion area just for PvE stuff? had no idea.
Well, typically. If you wanted an unbiased opinion on the direction of thief in PvP in those regards, post it in the PvP section, and there alone. The feedback would likely be significantly different.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
You posted this in the Thief and PvE areas. What are you even making a poll for? You should have just made it
[] Reveal normalized 3 seconds
[] Don’t care.
And left it at that. xD
Is the general discussion area just for PvE stuff? had no idea.
Well, typically. If you wanted an unbiased opinion on the direction of thief in PvP in those regards, post it in the PvP section, and there alone. The feedback would likely be significantly different.
I posted asking if there’s a chance that the skills will be balanced per-mode….
This is more talking about your build choices. Like if you choose utility skills in one game mode that’s different in another game mode, it will switch them automatically when you change. Like how traits do currently. If you are still confused, try going to Lions Arch, changing your traits, then enter WvW or sPvP. You will notice your traits being different (saved) in either of those game modes.
edit: further more, “balanced per mode” is a ridiculous idea. It should be the same in every mode and be balanced. Having it be different in different modes is what takes people out of these modes. They even specifically said they want to get rid of the split.
I posted asking if there’s a chance that the skills will be balanced per-mode….
This is more talking about your build choices. Like if you choose utility skills in one game mode that’s different in another game mode, it will switch them automatically when you change. Like how traits do currently. If you are still confused, try going to Lions Arch, changing your traits, then enter WvW or sPvP. You will notice your traits being different (saved) in either of those game modes.
edit: further more, “balanced per mode” is a ridiculous idea. It should be the same in every mode and be balanced. Having it be different in different modes is what takes people out of these modes. They even specifically said they want to get rid of the split.
Yeah I get that, that they’re talking about having builds assigned per-mode… but it’s one step forward for them in realizing that maybe the 3 modes should be balanced separately.
I sit on the other side of the fence, and think that while it’s harder/requires more work to balance the 3 modes separately, I think it’s a more correct way to do it. I get where you’re coming from, for instance the reveal that’s different between the two modes can get a bit annoying to keep accounting for the 1 second difference but at the moment some nerfs that might be targeted more towards one game mode are shafting players in another…
That, or, announce that that they don’t care balancing builds in WvW and will only focus on sPvP and PvE (WvW still being lumped into PvE). Which is perfectly understandable since trying to balance 1v1’s to 1vX to NvM (where N>M) to 10v10 to 60v60 to players playing on toasters and kittening that it’s not balanced… is a tad bit hard. Plus considering how they’re constantly trying to be an eSport…. Though announcing something like this will kitten off the WvW crowd and make people quit…. So, it’s better for them to to announce it, but silently do it anyways. And that still goes back to how I said one group of players being shafted because of another… But at least at that point we would know that it’s a solid decision on their part, as a opposed to “oh they kittened up at balancing yet again”.
:P In the end, neither you nor I will be happy about how they balance things. ~All is vain.
I’d be happy with it being the same in all modes. WvW isn’t meant to be balanced, but that doesn’t mean that individual classes can’t be balanced within that mode. The idea of individuals being balanced and the group compositions you come up with become broken is “synergy” and is generally the most fun I get out of an MMO.
edit: also, currently it is the same in all modes in terms of skills and traits I believe, besides reveal. The only difference between modes is where your stats come from, and food buffs (technically the same thing).
Wvw has been closed to being balanced before the patch – so don’t tell me it isn’t possible – and to be fair it should be intended for the sake of all game modes as if you make classes unbalanced some would be favoured when it comes to group play – and since we have no trinity in which a healer or tank would be needed you want classes to be equally strong.
And I disagree, I want the same in all 3 modes as switching from pve to wvw to pvp would be pretty confusing – after all I don’t play pvp because I can’t get used to the 4 s reveal and if they’d implement a system where all 3 game modes are separated, I’d have to chose to play only one.
Wvw has been closed to being balanced before the patch – so don’t tell me it isn’t possible – and to be fair it should be intended for the sake of all game modes as if you make classes unbalanced some would be favoured when it comes to group play – and since we have no trinity in which a healer or tank would be needed you want classes to be equally strong.
And I disagree, I want the same in all 3 modes as switching from pve to wvw to pvp would be pretty confusing – after all I don’t play pvp because I can’t get used to the 4 s reveal and if they’d implement a system where all 3 game modes are separated, I’d have to chose to play only one.
Hey I never said it can’t be balanced, I said the idea of balancing around individuals and making group compositions based on that is fun. Usually this makes a natural balance of different group compositions, which can be tougher to tweak. And you say you disagree but I think you misunderstand me? I want it the same in all game modes as well and I’m pretty sure that’s what you are saying. So, uhm……what?
3 seconds in pvp – 4 seconds in pve/wvw
This option is missing
Edit: I had a response but seriously, just go.
Do you mind tell me why do you think having 4s revealed in wvw is bad? Real PvPers have been using this formula for a very long time now, and they don’t cry as much as those pve thieves. Actually I don’t give a kitten about it realy. I was just pointing out that that option was even missing from the poll
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Hey I never said it can’t be balanced, I said the idea of balancing around individuals and making group compositions based on that is fun. Usually this makes a natural balance of different group compositions, which can be tougher to tweak. And you say you disagree but I think you misunderstand me? I want it the same in all game modes as well and I’m pretty sure that’s what you are saying. So, uhm……what?
I’m not so sure if balancing around group compositions is the way to go, but maybe there’s is no other option – I don’t know. And yeah it sounded as if you were more than ok with wvw beingimbalanced, that was why I complained
3 seconds in pvp – 4 seconds in pve/wvw
This option is missing
Edit: I had a response but seriously, just go.
Do you mind tell me why do you think having 4s revealed in wvw is bad? Real PvPers have been using this formula for a very long time now, and they don’t cry as much as those pve thieves. Actually I don’t give a kitten about it realy. I was just pointing out that that option was even missing from the poll
Because wvw is a bit more brutal than pvp – so stealth was the way to survive.
3 seconds in pvp – 4 seconds in pve/wvw
This option is missing
Edit: I had a response but seriously, just go.
Do you mind tell me why do you think having 4s revealed in wvw is bad? Real PvPers have been using this formula for a very long time now, and they don’t cry as much as those pve thieves. Actually I don’t give a kitten about it realy. I was just pointing out that that option was even missing from the poll
It was 4 seconds, then they reverted it back to 3. They never gave the exact reason, but I’d like to think that it’s because damage is so much higher and fight so much bigger that it just wrecked survivability. Also, WvW uses PvE numbers and there were lots of complaints about losing damage output in dungeons and open world content.
3 seconds in pvp – 4 seconds in pve/wvw
This option is missing
Edit: I had a response but seriously, just go.
Do you mind tell me why do you think having 4s revealed in wvw is bad? Real PvPers have been using this formula for a very long time now, and they don’t cry as much as those pve thieves. Actually I don’t give a kitten about it realy. I was just pointing out that that option was even missing from the poll
Neglecting players because you, personally, do not care is terrible reasoning. Seriously you obviously are not trying to provide any input besides that you don’t care about other people who play other game modes. Just go.
This is definitely something I would love to see! Either do 4 seconds in all game modes or 3 seconds in all game modes. I vote for 3 because it flows so good with the dagger auto attacks and just feel right.
I remember when they changed from 3 to 4 seconds in PvP, that was a real pain! It still is though. In PvE I lose dos if I come from PvP, because I’m used to 4 seconds and wait too long. In PvP I end up trying to re-stealth while I’m revealed, which is wasting initiative….
I say go for 3 seconds, or 4 if they want to, but they need to make it the same across all game modes.
You won’t do much with D/D in pvp even with normalization due to revs and scrappers spamming reveal off CD. I had to succumb to DD build because of it somewhere at the end of ruby. Legend is filled with revs (2 revs per team each match). Using stealth there is pointless in many cases :|
How about an animation for stealthing and being revealed? That would actually fix a lot of the target acclimation issues that stealth popping currently has and then an argument could be made to normalize to 3 seconds.
Thief has some weaknesses, but reveal won’t fix any of them. It would be like someone going to the body shop to fix a broken mirror on your car, but instead of fixing the mirror, they give you a new pair of rims.
