Guild Wars 2

Would you think it’d be a good idea if Revealed was applied those two changes :
- doesn’t make you immune to the Stealth buff
- makes you visible even while in Stealth, disabling the stealth attacks

At that point any offensive attack while stealth and revealed would still break the non functioning stealth and reset the Revealed duration.

Increase Debuff to 10 seconds.

What would your change accomplish exactly. Well maybe I didn’t make myself clear what is the point of what I’m proposing.

It’s simply that I don’t like the “Immune” effect from Revealed. I know such change I propose would make stealth a little easier to use but timing the duration of Revealed isn’t fun and the recent change backlash proves how much it annoys people. I don’t want to look for a blinking icon that might or might not be visible in the split second I draw my eyes to the bottom of my screen to see if I can blow my Smoke Bomb right now or not.

Pros :
- mistiming of revealed would be far less punitive on the thief, especially when using C&D
- allows the Shadow Arts trait to still have some effect even while Revealed like the 2 initiative gotten back when using a stealth skill

Cons :
- removes some of the skill in timing our Stealths

I rather see our skills tied to positioning rather than Stealth.

I want to backstab even without Stealth as long as I am behind or the side of my target because that’s really the only reason why we build around stealth in the first place.

So if I did my S/D rotation, I’d be able to trigger Shadow’s Embrace, Cloaked in Shadow and Shadowed Protector as often as I need but still not use Tactical Strike with revealed up?

Well, I can’t say for sure that all traits on Stealth should work like that but yeah, why not?

It’d be a way to not nerf too much the SA traits while still keeping a “long” Revealed duration.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I rather see our skills tied to positioning rather than Stealth.

I want to backstab even without Stealth as long as I am behind or the side of my target because that’s really the only reason why we build around stealth in the first place.

Nonsense. The main defense of a bs thief is stealth. If you don’t use stealth defensively, you aren’t playing as good as you could.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I rather see our skills tied to positioning rather than Stealth.

I want to backstab even without Stealth as long as I am behind or the side of my target because that’s really the only reason why we build around stealth in the first place.

Nonsense. The main defense of a bs thief is stealth. If you don’t use stealth defensively, you aren’t playing as good as you could.

What are you talking about?

If we don’t need stealth to backstab, we can reserve stealth for defense.

So who’s really talking nonsense here?

@sir vincent

If you want to be able to backstab while out of stealth then warriors should be able to move while using num2 gs and engineers should be able to throw 20 nades at once instead of 3 and guardians set everything in 5000 on fire automatically for 2k ticks
Necro should have give all conditions to every enemy within 4000. Do you see where i am going?

Theif doesn’t need anything but a tone down in damage and increase the debuff so you can’t go back into stealth.

My only take on it would be to make it so the thief cannot return to stealth unless the opponent loses sight of the thief via the environment. For example, thief comes out of stealth to hit another player in WvW. It connects, and the battle ensues. The thief cannot return to stealth until the player’s character itself loses sight of them (via not being able to autotarget them due to the opponent’s character being too far behind them), or the thief runs behind something that makes them impossible for the player’s character to see through, like a wall. Would work the same for normal mobs. Makes it a bit more realistic…now BRING THE CRITICISM (and possible flames).

As I see it.
People can pop up a stealth, backstab, put SR, dodge around and escape having a whole bunch of 10 secs of stealth even if they had reveal all through SR.
It’s one of the many abuses I see coming from this.

What sohlud be looked into is when you get revealed because of external sources of stealth. Sometimes you don’t expect it and someone pops a refuge while you’re walking and you’re just at the edge, that can actually murder a thief instead of saving it. IMHO there are more annoying things than 4 sec revealed but I do agree it’s a hassle.

RyuDragnier.9476:

My only take on it would be to make it so the thief cannot return to stealth unless the opponent loses sight of the thief via the environment. For example, thief comes out of stealth to hit another player in WvW. It connects, and the battle ensues. The thief cannot return to stealth until the player’s character itself loses sight of them (via not being able to autotarget them due to the opponent’s character being too far behind them), or the thief runs behind something that makes them impossible for the player’s character to see through, like a wall. Would work the same for normal mobs. Makes it a bit more realistic…now BRING THE CRITICISM (and possible flames).

That is not more realistic, it is more unrealistic.

Stealth is magic, it makes you invisible. Doesnt matter if you stare at me when I make myself stealth, you still wont see me.

Zephyric Reaper.3049:

As I see it.
People can pop up a stealth, backstab, put SR, dodge around and escape having a whole bunch of 10 secs of stealth even if they had reveal all through SR.
It’s one of the many abuses I see coming from this.

What sohlud be looked into is when you get revealed because of external sources of stealth. Sometimes you don’t expect it and someone pops a refuge while you’re walking and you’re just at the edge, that can actually murder a thief instead of saving it. IMHO there are more annoying things than 4 sec revealed but I do agree it’s a hassle.

That could be a problem but we aren’t at special rules anymore. If SR is the problem, then tweak SR. Make it not apply any stealth if you are Revealed as an exception for example.

Also, SR even when you are invisible inside is kind of dangerous, I can only imagine how worse it would be if we are visible for the full duration of it.

Bacon Please.8407:

@sir vincent

If you want to be able to backstab while out of stealth then warriors should be able to move while using num2 gs and engineers should be able to throw 20 nades at once instead of 3 and guardians set everything in 5000 on fire automatically for 2k ticks
Necro should have give all conditions to every enemy within 4000. Do you see where i am going?

That’s a slippery slope fallacy. :/

Theif doesn’t need anything but a tone down in damage and increase the debuff so you can’t go back into stealth.

Your idea is to break the profession. No thank you.

Thief damage is fine, but make it so EVERY attempt to hit somebody while in stealth (regardless if blocked, evaded, etc) force the reveal status on you. In no other game do those in stealth get penalized less than in this one. In every other one, EVERY attempt to hit somebody or do something (such as use a finisher) force you out of stealth.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Thief damage is fine, but make it so EVERY attempt to hit somebody while in stealth (regardless if blocked, evaded, etc) force the reveal status on you. In no other game do those in stealth get penalized less than in this one. In every other one, EVERY attempt to hit somebody or do something (such as use a finisher) force you out of stealth.

Wrong. In other games the abilities are grayed out and are not even usable if you’re out of range of your target. Most other games also don’t have dodging and attacking without target, so apples and oranges. Don’t bring up other games to justify your crusade against thieves.

So still staying in stealth despite having an attacked block, an attack that takes you out of stealth the second it hits something (which in this case is a barrier) makes sense to you? I have a thief, I understand how absolutely hellish it can be if we’re taken out of stealth with each attempted attack that is blocked or evaded, but as of right now when you can just constantly spam stealth to stay in it and have almost 0 repercussions from it, how is getting revealed on an evade or a block going to make things any more different than they are now?

RyuDragnier.9476:

So still staying in stealth despite having an attacked block, an attack that takes you out of stealth the second it hits something (which in this case is a barrier) makes sense to you? I have a thief, I understand how absolutely hellish it can be if we’re taken out of stealth with each attempted attack that is blocked or evaded, but as of right now when you can just constantly spam stealth to stay in it and have almost 0 repercussions from it, how is getting revealed on an evade or a block going to make things any more different than they are now?

Given ANets track record this far, any implementation of what you’re suggesting would only further destroy the thief in PVE while making minimal (if any) impact in PVP. Enough with the nerfs, it’s time for some PVE buffs before any other PVP “balancing” can be applied to this class.

Good point. But you’d think they would just make 2 “sectors” for this sort of thing…PvP and PvE. All the PvP changes would only adjust the PvP sector and leave the PvE one alone, and vice versa. But that’s probably a pipe dream.

Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Bacon Please.8407:

Theif doesn’t need anything but a tone down in damage and increase the debuff so you can’t go back into stealth.

Thieves’ damage is normal, Backstab only hits 1,5k-ish , what makes it big is just the damage modifier such as might stacks ,utilities, traits crit damage , etc. Nothing to be toned down. IMO , i think Thieves with no stealth=dead , except you play ranged weapon , dodge Thieves still a no-go for me (on WvW / sPvP) , especially in 1vX fights, in PvE it will do well enough.