Potent poison
Hmm, very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
However, I suppose the awkward part of this is that you easily cap poison duration, but have a much lower duration for bleeds/torment.
On the gear Brazil suggested, there was a 66% base duration, which would have overcapped poison, but got bleeds up to 86% with an agony sigil. Torment, however, still stayed at 66%.
If you just went for a straight 50% duration, this would leave Bleeding/Torment even farther behind the cap.
And I guess that leaves the question: Do you get more DPS by sitting at 50% or does the extra dps from increased bleed/torment duration outweigh the cost of going with a higher base condi duration? If the latter is true, what is the sweet spot for maximizing that dps?
After playing with the build editor, it looks like you can gain go from 66% duration to 50% by swapping out helm, legs, and feet to Sinister and swapping the Malice sigil for Bursting. This gives 6% more condition damage, 29 less power, 50 more precision, and 127 more condition damage.
You have to keep in mind with durations to bleed in particular there comes a point where getting closer to 100 percent makes little sense. This applies to the d/d weapon set rather then p/d simply because the base durations of DB bleed so long. They will rarely run the duration before a cleanse.
Poison on the other hand has lower base duration and in partciular if using sb or dagger mastery. If a persons is cleansing every 10 seconds then it better to get those poison durations up at the expense of bleed.
Needless to say this changes if that condition build relies to any great extent on Uncatchable or caltrops bleeds. In such a case and in a d/d build you might want to focus some more attention on bleed durations.
Impaling lotus again has a 10 second base on bleeds and again it my feeling if you focus on getting those durations much higher the extra durations go to waste. It my opininion getting poison higher should take priority.
I think over all you will get more damage (in a dagger mastery potent poison build) pushing poison off dagger mastery from 3 seconds to 4 seconds full than you will pushing d/d bleeds from 12 seconds to 16 seconds. (even as each gains 33 percent)
Babazhook, you’re talking about a whole ‘nuther ballgame if you’re going to discuss PvP.
Condi duration doesn’t really matter much there due to cleanses, but in PvE, it’s generally the biggest dps boost you can get per stat point.
Babazhook, you’re talking about a whole ‘nuther ballgame if you’re going to discuss PvP.
Condi duration doesn’t really matter much there due to cleanses, but in PvE, it’s generally the biggest dps boost you can get per stat point.
Pve I find most things are dead before a DB stacks bleeds runs its durations. This outside the champions . With d/d I can solo many champions and have no extra duration at all outside the poison from thorns/potent.
If i run a venomshare build in Pve , I can share poisons, I can not share bleeds so that bleed duration added does little. The question then becomes how much more does the torment off skale do per tick if I get more ticks off it and share.
Sharing poison fighting Jormag I have seen poison ticks over 8k per. I have never seen torment get that close. that 33 percent extra potency is key here as it basically wipes out extra damage from the shared torment that gets a few more ticks.
Someone more inclined to do so might have to do the math and see if there a sweetspot.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
In any case, potency is better than duration in terms of poison and bleeding. Duration only matters on conditions like cripple and chill.
If you look at your build, the 50% duration deals more DPS compare to the 66%.
If the goal is to deal as much poison dmg, you can deal even higher dps if you go Dire+Thorns Rune with only 30% condi duration.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
In any case, potency is better than duration in terms of poison and bleeding. Duration only matters on conditions like cripple and chill.
If you look at your build, the 50% duration deals more DPS compare to the 66%.
If the goal is to deal as much poison dmg, you can deal even higher dps if you go Dire+Thorns Rune with only 30% condi duration.
I think you’re absolutely right, but imo it’s important to remember that poison duration is only completely useless in the context of damage, but in regards to heal effectiveness reduction it can actually be kinda useful
In any case, potency is better than duration in terms of poison and bleeding. Duration only matters on conditions like cripple and chill.
If you look at your build, the 50% duration deals more DPS compare to the 66%.
If the goal is to deal as much poison dmg, you can deal even higher dps if you go Dire+Thorns Rune with only 30% condi duration.
I think you’re absolutely right, but imo it’s important to remember that poison duration is only completely useless in the context of damage, but in regards to heal effectiveness reduction it can actually be kinda useful
With Dire+Thorns Rune, the Poison duration will be extended rather than wasting stats trying to extend duration of all conditions through Expertise — as I said, if that is the goal.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Just wanted to post some interesting findings.
So I tested this with under 100% duration and confirmed its multiplicative relationship.
Then I tested this with over 100%, using an expertise amulet, a venom sigil, and thorns runes for a total of 102.33% poison duration. The interesting relationship I found, was that instead of increasing my spider venom’s duration from 12s (6s base) to 16s, it instead increased it to 16.25s. Considering now that 6s * 2.0233 = 12.1398s which with a 33% modification would be ~16.15s, which would round up to a quarter for the tooltip. Very interesting indeed. Im going to do some additional testing in wvw and will repost.
December 1st : http://i.imgur.com/x7PIK1N.gifv
(edited by Xeyon.6419)
Just wanted to post some interesting findings.
So I tested this with under 100% duration and confirmed its multiplicative relationship.
Then I tested this with over 100%, using an expertise amulet, a venom sigil, and thorns runes for a total of 102.33% poison duration. The interesting relationship I found, was that instead of increasing my spider venom’s duration from 12s (6s base) to 16s, it instead increased it to 16.25s. Considering now that 6s * 2.0233 = 12.1398s which with a 33% modification would be ~16.15s, which would round up to a quarter for the tooltip. Very interesting indeed. Im going to do some additional testing in wvw and will repost.
As far as I know, the poison duration will max out at 12s regardless of how much additional duration you take. It’s interesting that the tooltip shows that.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Yeah I double checked and it does in fact not apply anything above 100% regardless of tooltip, as Vincent said above. Still fun to play around with the tool tips; I managed to get my Serpent’s Touch up to 33.5s in wvw.
December 1st : http://i.imgur.com/x7PIK1N.gifv
you tested like actual testing, and not just checking tooltips, to confirm that the duration increase is multiplicative?
Yeah, sorry forgot to include that.
So with the tooltip being above 12s for spider venom(6s base), it would only output a maximum of 12s. Additionally, the 33% does in fact not actually apply multiplicatively at the end for the actual applied poison. Only the tooltip has that kind of interaction.
Example: With 50% poison duration my spider venom was 9s. With potent poison, this tooltip went up to 12s, which makes sense as 9*1.33 = 12s. However when actually applied, the poison’s duration only ran <11s (as in 11 was never reached on the counter) which makes sense as 6* 1.83 = ~11s.
Conclusion: It doesn’t work how it appears unfortunately.
December 1st : http://i.imgur.com/x7PIK1N.gifv
Yeah I double checked and it does in fact not apply anything above 100% regardless of tooltip, as Vincent said above. Still fun to play around with the tool tips; I managed to get my Serpent’s Touch up to 33.5s in wvw.
lol, 33.5s — wouldn’t that be nice :P
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
With 50% poison duration my spider venom was 9s. With potent poison, this tooltip went up to 12s, which makes sense as 9*1.33 = 12s. However when actually applied, the poison’s duration only ran <11s (as in 11 was never reached on the counter) which makes sense as 6* 1.83 = ~11s.
ok, that’s what I thought it was, since I think I tested it a few months ago but don’t remember for sure