Guild Wars 2

Okay guys, I’ve got 800 games on my thief at the moment, 550 of which are in tPvP. I’m posting that information because I would like the developers to take this post seriously. I know A-Net does not plan to make any changes to skill functionality in the near future, unless it’s currently game breaking, and encourages teams to find counters. This change will make little difference in low tier PvP, but the current High Tier teams (teams that consistently go 500-200 or better) understand how game breaking this skill is in its current state.

From what I can tell, people think Cluster Bomb is balanced, because of the travel time, and detonation. I’ve been using this skill for about 2 weeks now (it took a couple weeks to realize the potential of this skill). It’s quite possibly the most sustained damage AoE in the game. It hits targets for 3-5k (depending on target), it IS spammable, and the initiative cost is incredibly low for it’s potential damage output.
The reason Cluster bomb is so good, is because if you use it in MELEE range, the cast time is null. It’s a spammable 360 AoE high damage, bleed stacking attack. Not only that, it is ALSO a blast finisher. Bust that baby out when your buddy is putting down a Combo Field and you do an AWESOME AoE buff, or debuff.
If you are using this skill from range, then you are not using it properly. I propose a few changes to the skill, that I believe would balance it. It needs a nerf, but nothing major. But the skill, as it stands is just way to strong.
1. Make the AoE smaller
2. Lower the Large Explosion damage
3. Remove the initiative cost for the small explosion, and make the initial cost of Cluster Bomb 4 initiative.
4. a minimum flight time for the cluster bomb, ie: it has a minimum distance in which it can be cast, and can’t be cast at your feet, or within 200 range of yourself. I’m not sure how that would turn out, because of serious mechanics changes (no other skill is subject to that kind of limitation).
It only needs one of those changes to be a balanced skill.
As far as numbers go, off the top of my head based off Armor type:
Cloth: 4k+ . I’m not going to give a high side, because it varies to much. I will say that I have personally hit for 7k before. That is incredibly rare, and even 6k most likely won’t happen in a full tourny set.
Leather: 3k-5k . Rarely will you get higher than that.
Plate: 1.5k-3k. This isn’t that bad. But the fact that it’s spammable AoE really starts to make that high armor matter less…
Those are what I normally see. I almost exclusively play Thief in tPvP, so this is purely off that experience. As far as WvW is concerned, I can only imagine that bigger groups of people means more big numbers.
And to be clear: Thieves should have at least 50% crit chance.

Frankly, I’m skeptical on the numbers you described (unless your character was extremely buffed up with boons).

Why don’t you give a detailed showing of your build and take a screenshot of some numbers in the combat log.

I tried cluster bomb in the game (heart of the mist) and I get no where near the numbers you described. A screenshot is attached, showing the damage numbers for the detonated cluster bombs. At best, if all 3 bombs get crits on the light armor, then it’s ~3k damage (+ bleed damage = 4k total at tops). Note that the #s in the combat log at the end can be high only because of the trait where I get +20% dmg when they’re below 50% hp.

I’m using berserker’s amulet. For traits, I have 25 in the power line and 30 in the critcal line. However, I’m using Runes of Lyssa.

It is used as a melee skill only, in general the whole short bow is broken as a ranged weapon and better as a short range melee kiting weapon.

The numbers you have described do seem a little, High, the reason I suggest this is because there is supposed to only be a Minor amount of difference in mitigation between armour types where as toughness is the main tool to reduce the damage you take.

I would be fine with there being a minimum range for the skill but I would also want the arrow to move twice as fast to make it a viable ranged nuke.

also if you detonate the skill it doesn’t finish combos, this is dilberate to try and avoid the spam you are running round doing

Stormy, you are not supposed to detonate it. Let the Big Explosion hit. I have 3k Attack Damage, 30 crit (point in 20% below 50%), 10 in Power, Berserkers Amulet, and Runes of the Scholar. The damage does not change much at all with a Knight Amulet. Honestly, I find it is not a question of build, but of the skills damage itself. And those numbers are very rough estimates. Obviously certain classes that are specced for bunker builds are going to take less damage.

oh.

Ok, I just did it without detonating and have attached a screenshot (Note: terribly unlucky with crits). My damage still doesn’t reach the numbers that you speak of.

I agree that the damage is good (when it crits), but I’m not sure if it warrants debuffing based on the results I’m getting. Although, making it cost 4 init at start wouldn’t particularly bother me (since I’ve usually denotated them).

The main reason I say this is because it looks like the Engineer can achieve a similar effect with grenades (Note: consider the chance for 2 sec. burn effect on crits with Engi traits too). See video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEKcnaF_PY8 .

Engie nades are smaller aoe I think but their damage is better at range and can apply loads of conditions and do amazing damage in melee, simply they are better at nuking close and long range than the shortbow…

Stormy O.7025:

oh.

Ok, I just did it without detonating and have attached a screenshot (Note: terribly unlucky with crits). My damage still doesn’t reach the numbers that you speak of.

I agree that the damage is good (when it crits), but I’m not sure if it warrants debuffing based on the results I’m getting. Although, making it cost 4 init at start wouldn’t particularly bother me (since I’ve usually denotated them).

The main reason I say this is because it looks like the Engineer can achieve a similar effect with grenades (Note: consider the chance for 2 sec. burn effect on crits with Engi traits too). See video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEKcnaF_PY8 .

Yeah that’s the kind of results I see with the skill as well. full glass cannon spec and gear, get about 2-3k average on crits with non-detonated shots.

Did some more testing, managed to get around 4200 a couple times, but no more than that. And the heavy targets only take about 1k less damage than light ones. Also if you detonate the bomb right before it hits the ground it does the same amount of damage, just spread over multiple hits.

Oh what a surprise, you’re the typical 14k health glass cannon thief… of course you are hitting hard with CB.