Potential Specs for Daredevil

Potential Specs for Daredevil

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Posted by: Starlightmagus.8654

Starlightmagus.8654

I’d like to open this post by expressing my bewilderment with all the negative comments along the lines of “Acrobatics was nerfed to make Daredevil viable!”. Acrobatics was generally a terrible trait line pre-patch, though you could make it work with some builds. The trait consolidation greatly improved the trait line in my own opinion, and I run it with my current build. (Deadly Arts, Trickery, Acrobatics) I’ve been laughed at by people for taking ‘such a horrible trait line’, but I find some of the traits to be legitimately fantastic and they add a lot to a highly mobile, difficult to hit playstyle. The only ‘nerf’ was to Feline Grace, but I’ve dealt with not being able to permadodge just fine. I think people, by and large, hear someone say “Acrobatics is trash” and immediately jump on the bandwagon without figuring out how to actually play it.

That being said, I’ve been considering since the Daredevil traits were revealed about how one could take both Acrobatics and Daredevil to make a super mobile front-line fighter that’s almost impossible to stop and lock down. I’d like to propose a couple of builds here centering around that concept, so I’d love some thoughts and feedback that isn’t just “ur a bad durr hurr”. Try to keep an open mind, people. Change is difficult, but the metas of today won’t be the metas of tomorrow.

Substitute in Staff for 2nd weapon and Daredevil for third trait line. All of these trait lines will have high vigor uptime, which with the 50% boost from the new Feline Grace is…significant for Daredevil. I’ve done these with a pvp build variant for simplicity’s sake.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3;2VwF_06;9;9-LI;1156147;9;4IBl3IBl3a0o
This is a build that’s a front line fighter. Good sustained damage with good potential for spikes, and a heaping helping of survivability and sustain to keep you going through everything that comes at you. Dagger 5 for on demand stealth, and various means to both stay on your target and get out when it gets too heated. The final skill would be Bandit’s Defense with the Elite being Impact Strike.

For the Daredevil trait line, Weakening Strikes for Adept, Staff Mastery for Master, and Unhindered Combat for GM. Overall this build should prove to be a devastating front line combatant that’s exceedingly difficult to stop. The weakness of this build would be heavy condition pressure.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g3R;2VwF_06;1Fd0;9;4LI;1156148;9;4F-03F-035L
A similar build to the first, but more offensively focused. This is somewhat close to the build I use currently. Trade Sword/Dagger for Dagger/Pistol and gear with somewhat squishier but more burst-capable gear. This requires you to really be on your toes with timing your dodges and making the most of burst windows. Staff stealth opener can be exceedingly strong with this build, with a quick withdraw and 5-2 combo to reset if your opponent uses an invul CD. The trick with this build is to get on your target and never let up pressure unless you need to withdraw and reset.

For the Daredevil trait line: Adept – Evasive Empowerment, Master – Impacting Disruption, GM – Bounding Dodger. Utility Skill: Fist Flurry. Elite: Either Impact Strike your Basalisk Venom, depending on your preference.

~

And now for a build that doesn’t actually include Acrobatics, but I found to be fairly interesting while I was playing around with the calculator.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gR3V;1RwFb06;1Fd0;9;4KM;1237037;9;4fgm9fgm91h
This is a condition build using the Daredevil trait line. Heavy reliance on bleed damage with caltrop spamming, made possible by the gratuitous amount of dodging Daredevil can accomplish. Play this right, and enemies will simply melt. A variant of an acrobatics condition build I was using for a while in which winning 3v1 was not only viable but fairly easy, though this was pre-patch with Ricochet. Weaknesses inherent in the build are the same with most condition builds. If your target tries to run, good luck catching them.

Daredevil Line: Adept – Weakening Strikes (Better if you use Rabid gear, but I digress), Master – Escapist’s Absolution (Between this and constant stealth, you’ll have to be afk to die from conditions), GM – Lotus Training. Utility Skill: Impairing Daggers.

Edit: At the request of Chaos Archangel in another thread, I’ll post a ‘Martial Artist’ build. I built it using Sword/Pistol and Staff, but it would be possible to change the former out for a Shortbow for added mobility but reduced burst potential.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g3R;9;9;9JL;1246258;9;4m7YBm7YB5M
Daredevil Traits: Adept – Brawler’s Tenacity (Since you’ll be heavily relying on Physical utility skills.), Master – Staff Mastery or Impacting Disruption (The former is more focused on general fighting and increased endurance regen, but the latter offers fantastic burst on interrupts, and with Sword/Pistol these come quickly and often.) GM – Bounding Dodger (As requested).

Utility Skills: Bandit’s Defense, Palm Strike, Distracting Daggers. Elite: Impact Strike. Heal: Channeled Vigor

These builds are far from polished, and theoretical only. I hope I’ve given people something to think about besides ‘my current build won’t work anymore’ and ’it’s just a replacement for Acrobatics’. Let me know what you think.

(edited by Starlightmagus.8654)

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Posted by: Niels.5396

Niels.5396

Whatever it is, in PvP it’ll require a Shortbow to do +1ing and the 2nd set is not going to be p/p.

We’ll probably run something along the lines of SB – d/p in the old meta, except this time we’re replacing acrobatics with dare devil.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

i call sd/sb acro trickery dd

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Starlightmagus.8654

Starlightmagus.8654

I considered Shortbow, and you could probably do a very powerful spec with it, but I really don’t think it’s necessary for a front line fighting build. Shortbow is all about mobility. I don’t think it would be a bad choice for a Daredevil build. Probably a very good choice, in fact, but saying it’ll be required is a bit of a stretch. We’ll see when we get to try it out, though.

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Posted by: IDICERI.4268

IDICERI.4268

I just wondering if the trait Unhindered Combat also increase your evade frame.

Unhindered Combat – Your dodge ability changes to Dash, which removes cripple and chill effects from you and increases the distance you dodge. Range 360.

Really curious about that 60 range does it give me .90 seconds of evade instead of .75 seconds as well. If that’s correct it means 5 dodge rolls is equivalent to 6 regular dodges.

Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Einstein

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

No it won’t. The new dodge tooltips shows a 3/4s cast time which is the same as normal dodge.

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Posted by: Starlightmagus.8654

Starlightmagus.8654

I just wondering if the trait Unhindered Combat also increase your evade frame.

Unhindered Combat – Your dodge ability changes to Dash, which removes cripple and chill effects from you and increases the distance you dodge. Range 360.

Really curious about that 60 range does it give me .90 seconds of evade instead of .75 seconds as well. If that’s correct it means 5 dodge rolls is equivalent to 6 regular evade frames.

This is possible, but I think it’s more likely that you’ll simply move more quickly to make up for the difference.

Edit: Post above me answered, though I suppose it’s still open for change. Unlikely though.

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Posted by: Midi.8359

Midi.8359

sb is actually very good for frontlining in PvP. With SoM you’ll heal per pulse of sb 4 (You get five ticks in total including the first hit). Plus with Lotus Training you get a whirl finisher on dodge, so when you dodge in your poison fields you can get caltrops + poison bolts + thrown daggers that bleed/torment/cripple.

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Posted by: Starlightmagus.8654

Starlightmagus.8654

sb is actually very good for frontlining in PvP. With SoM you’ll heal per pulse of sb 4 (You get five ticks in total including the first hit). Plus with Lotus Training you get a whirl finisher on dodge, so when you dodge in your poison fields you can get caltrops + poison bolts + thrown daggers that bleed/torment/cripple.

That’s a big reason why I included Shortbow in the Condition variant of Daredevil. It’s too good under those circumstances to give up.

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

PvE damage spec purely trait-wise might not be as high if specced in to DD, but I think we can get kitten close, if not surpass it depending on rotation. If we take Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes + Daredevil, here’s what we lose from Trickery:

- Average of about 10% damage modifier
- Group Vigor
- Steal cooldown reduction
- Base 15 ini
- Some Quickness/Fury (Chronomancer will handle the first one, and No Quarter will handle the 2nd)

And gain:

- 3rd dodge
- The new dodge types
- 10% damage on next attack after each dodge or CD reduction on physicals + endurance gain (or Weakening Strikes, which may be very popular for harder content)
- 10% bonus damage on Staff (if we are going to be using it in AoE situations depending on how hard it hits) or 2k+ base damage on interrupts (for non-defiant mobs)
- AoE frontstab damage on dodge

I’m thinking that if we wanted to max out completely for PvE, then we do the standard D/D rotation, but instead of continuing the dagger chain (Double Strike + Wild Strike) we replace one or both with a dodge through the boss, doing that massive dodge damage, and THEN hitting C+D, which will benefit from a 10% damage boost. Alternatively, we could use Dash instead, dodge after a CnD and get 10% damage on the Backstab. We can also use a third utility slot (keeping the 2 signets) and have Fist Flurry, and use the Elite physical as DPS increases as well.

If using the Staff against multiple mobs, I imagine we’ll be dodging, followed by Vault or Debilitating Charge, and pacing out autos between dodges + the hard hitting initiative skills.

Also it’s worth noting that the Physicals hit like a TRUCK. I’m expecting Fist Flurry/Palm Strike and the Elite to be big benefactors for PvE DPS.

SO excited to try this stuff out next week!

EDIT: I’m also messing about with possibly using Deadly Arts + Trickery + Daredevil in PvE. I’m not sure about the math, but an average of a 10% damage modifier is probably not as good as 355/505 Ferocity (23.6%/33.6% Crit damage for foes below and above 50% HP respectively) and the access to Fury + Vuln Stacking, but the 15 ini + Vigor is very nice. We’ll have to see!

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

(edited by Auesis.7301)

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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

I made a post on someone else’s thread, I’d dredge it up but I’m lazy. It had explanation/thinking. Anywho I came up with:

Staff-P/P (oh boy, no shortbow)
Valkyrie- Lyssa/Adventure runes, your pick
Trickery- mid/mid/mid
SA- bot/midORtop/mid
DD- dodge is leap finisher, +dmg on staff when endurance isn’t full, pulm
Staff- Sigil of Rage, Sigil of Intelligence IIIIIIIIII P/P- Sigil of Energy, Sigil of Leeching

Utils were for them wanting 3 phys, I was thinking:
Withdraw, Infilitrators, X, X, Basi or takedown. IMO, this would work very well for dueling and teamfighting. INB4 no one expects the tank to kill them gif.

The SA bit was because I think someone said Staff stealth attack was a 2 second knockdown…if someone can correct me if I’m wrong, that’d be utterly beautiful because I am living in a dream imagining the 0 counter-play options to perma stun instagibs. But combining the knockdown with the Haste trait on trickery for hitting someone in the back… and then possibly take-down? I’m just imagining shenanigans >.> If Staff doesn’t knockdown, then swap for acrobatics defense or DA damage.

Worst Thief in the world, yes I am.

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Posted by: Starlightmagus.8654

Starlightmagus.8654

I made a post on someone else’s thread, I’d dredge it up but I’m lazy. It had explanation/thinking. Anywho I came up with:

Staff-P/P (oh boy, no shortbow)
Valkyrie- Lyssa/Adventure runes, your pick
Trickery- mid/mid/mid
SA- bot/midORtop/mid
DD- dodge is leap finisher, +dmg on staff when endurance isn’t full, pulm
Staff- Sigil of Rage, Sigil of Intelligence IIIIIIIIII P/P- Sigil of Energy, Sigil of Leeching

Utils were for them wanting 3 phys, I was thinking:
Withdraw, Infilitrators, X, X, Basi or takedown. IMO, this would work very well for dueling and teamfighting. INB4 no one expects the tank to kill them gif.

The SA bit was because I think someone said Staff stealth attack was a 2 second knockdown…if someone can correct me if I’m wrong, that’d be utterly beautiful because I am living in a dream imagining the 0 counter-play options to perma stun instagibs. But combining the knockdown with the Haste trait on trickery for hitting someone in the back… and then possibly take-down? I’m just imagining shenanigans >.> If Staff doesn’t knockdown, then swap for acrobatics defense or DA damage.

Staff from stealth indeed does a 2 second knockdown. It’s rather beautiful, and the stealth opener I’ve been waiting for.

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

Agressive Build:
S/X + SB
DA/DD/Tr
DA: Mug, PS, Exe
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Brawler’s Tenacity, Impacting Disruption, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Distracting Daggers, (TBD), Impact Strike

Sustain Build:
S/X + SB
CS/DD/Tr
CS: SoP, PT, NQ
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Shadowstep, Signet of Agility, Impact Strike

I’ll probably give staff a whirl, but without the ability to stealth, I think it’ll be less effective than the potential of S/P.

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

(edited by Maugetarr.6823)

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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

Agressive Build:
S/X + SB
DA/DD/Tr
DA: Mug, PS, Exe
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Brawler’s Tenacity, Impacting Disruption, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Distracting Daggers, (TBD), Impact Strike

Sustain Build:
S/X + SB
CS/DD/Tr
CS: SoP, PT, NQ
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Shadowstep, Signet of Agility, Impact Strike

I’ll probably give staff a whirl, but without the ability to stealth, I think it’ll be less effective than the potential of S/P.

One of the traits is to change the type of dodge you have- one of the options is leap finisher. Grab smoke screen, or use my suggested build =) Either way, stealth access should not be a problem.

Worst Thief in the world, yes I am.

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Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

Agressive Build:
S/X + SB
DA/DD/Tr
DA: Mug, PS, Exe
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Brawler’s Tenacity, Impacting Disruption, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Distracting Daggers, (TBD), Impact Strike

Sustain Build:
S/X + SB
CS/DD/Tr
CS: SoP, PT, NQ
Tr: TotC, BT, SoH
DD: Weakening Strikes, Escapist’s Absolution, Bounding Dodger

Withdraw, Bandit’s Defense, Shadowstep, Signet of Agility, Impact Strike

I’ll probably give staff a whirl, but without the ability to stealth, I think it’ll be less effective than the potential of S/P.

One of the traits is to change the type of dodge you have- one of the options is leap finisher. Grab smoke screen, or use my suggested build =) Either way, stealth access should not be a problem.

I thought about smokescreen, but it’s on a 30 second CD. S/P seems more than viable because you could BPS and dodge roll, then get to use Tactical Strike which could trigger the Impacting Disruption in addition to headshot and pistolwhip. It’s not that I’m not excited about staff, but I think it will be just about where D/D is, but without the stealth.

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

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Posted by: Gabriell.4856

Gabriell.4856

X/P will not work with the new leap dodge. Well, it will work but it will be clunky and counter productive.

I’m not sure why people think lead dodge is the next best thing since sliced bread. That trait is actually terrible.

(edited by Gabriell.4856)

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

DD build Condition damage. Uber sustain.

SA/DD/ACRO

SA SE/LV/SR
DD BT/EA/LT
ACRO PR/H2C/DS

shamans armor.
SOMalice heal.
Spider venom/Impairing daggers/Bandits defense/RFI/impact strike

Three stun breaks, two immob breaks. One stun break fills up endurance allowing more attacks with impairing daggers. one stun break adds INI allowing more attacks via the dagger set. Great Condi cleanse and heavy poison/bleed damage. Lots of bleeds and oodles of health coming in.

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

This is something I’m thinking about.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAq6k0MhenghTY8TU7xMA+v+ZtC3AA-TVyDABMcCAURPAUKPeSJGAmgKVJYOq/oz+DJ8AAIEg5xA-w
Bandits Defense and impact strike elite go in the open slots. P/p + Staff. Staff Master or Condi removal on dodge. Probably dash dodge but leap could also fit. Self made 100% crit for healing on damage (even more with SoM), healing on ini use, potential heal on dodge, pretty much heal on existing. Any excess healing can be put into condi removal via Withdraw, removal on dodge, and/or RFI.

(P/p isn’t necessary of course, pretty much anything could be used. I just plan on using p/p for something, and this could work).

Fishsticks

(edited by Ghotistyx.6942)

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Posted by: Jesse.4631

Jesse.4631

the dmg on the dodge will just help to reveal thieves imo (dodge in refuge to prevent knockback “revealed!”) its basicly last refuge all over again!

Pink Sylvari FTW!

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Posted by: Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

the dmg on the dodge will just help to reveal thieves imo (dodge in refuge to prevent knockback “revealed!”) its basicly last refuge all over again!

So don’t use it if stealth play is your thing?

I’ll be able to go without stealth at all now, so will try out the build here 1st. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Untouchable-Duelist

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Posted by: Jesse.4631

Jesse.4631

the dmg on the dodge will just help to reveal thieves imo (dodge in refuge to prevent knockback “revealed!”) its basicly last refuge all over again!

So don’t use it if stealth play is your thing?

stealth isn’t my thing i’m saying its counterproductive, people want to use it to blast their smoke fields but there’ll be times where it just serves to hinder you :p was more a opinion then a attack at the trait

Pink Sylvari FTW!

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Posted by: Midi.8359

Midi.8359

Honestly if the new thief can sustain on points then not running sb could definitely be viable.

Also the reveal on hit thing is something we’ve had to deal with in heartseeker. Dodging in SR will be a bigger problem though. Assuming that the build needs stealth that is.

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Posted by: Lokheit.7943

Lokheit.7943

Whatever it is, in PvP it’ll require a Shortbow to do +1ing and the 2nd set is not going to be p/p.

This is something I’m saying in multiple threads.

My build os going to be that, just my P/D venom share build only that P/P with the leap dodge trait is better than P/D at getting those bleeds with the same use of initiative. Full ranged Thief just became possible and is also good at fighting close.

Really guys, P/P just stole the show from P/D.

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Posted by: serenke.4806

serenke.4806

I think Daredevil should be immune to the blind condition for obvious reasons.