Guild Wars 2

I’m kind of up in the air as to whether I should be suggesting this stat mix or if it would be a waste. Currently if you need crit chance/power and some survivability, your option is Power/Precision/Toughness. I know Toughness increases your sustain and healing, however being geared in such a set leaves you at 10k-14k health which just means if you miss a dodge, or run out of endurance, many things in dungeons will outright one shot you or kill you before you have a chance to heal.

Power/Vitality/Toughness is a no go unless you’re dagger/dagger as only dagger/dagger can really make the best use of the 100% crit chance from stealth trait. Every other weapon combo can’t stealth often enough, or doesn’t have a big hit out of stealth to capitalize off the one time you can crit a significant amount of the time.

Wearing full knights/emerald gear takes you from 1980 armor to 2706, an increase of 27% damage reduction. Basically in a scenario of a missed dodge or you run out of endurance and can’t dodge, and get smacked by a hit that would normally do 20,000 damage on base armor… with Knight’s/Emerald gear it’d do 14,634 damage, and with a thief’s base health pool + 20 points in acrobatics + 1650 hp from runes, for a whopping 14, 455 hp, you still get one shot.

If instead of 726 extra toughness you had 726 extra vitality, you’d have 21,715 health, and you’d survive that 20k hit with base armor.

There’s a point when toughness overtakes vitality for even mitigating burst damage, when it comes to effective HP, but it’s certainly not at 10-14K.

So am I crazy or is this a set that we could find use for if you’re a pistol, sword, or shortbow oriented direct damage thief?

Which is why a lot of thieves just run pure offense and use evasion/blind/dodge for survivability. But, yeah, sure, Pow/Prec/Vit is a viable set.

Toughness isn’t a straight dmg reduction. It is vs a static power value but It increases your armor which helps to lower your enemies dmg bonus vs you.

For your enemy:

Power(theirs)/Armor(yours) = Dmg Modifier

So 2000 power vs 1500 armor = 1.33 or ~33% dmg bonus to the target. If you had 700 more toughens it would be .90 or ~43% less dmg swing.

This stuff is why up-leveled people are so terrible in WvW and you can see 20K+ kill shots.

Devildoc.6721:

I’m kind of up in the air as to whether I should be suggesting this stat mix or if it would be a waste. Currently if you need crit chance/power and some survivability, your option is Power/Precision/Toughness. I know Toughness increases your sustain and healing, however being geared in such a set leaves you at 10k-14k health which just means if you miss a dodge, or run out of endurance, many things in dungeons will outright one shot you or kill you before you have a chance to heal.

Power/Vitality/Toughness is a no go unless you’re dagger/dagger as only dagger/dagger can really make the best use of the 100% crit chance from stealth trait. Every other weapon combo can’t stealth often enough, or doesn’t have a big hit out of stealth to capitalize off the one time you can crit a significant amount of the time.

Wearing full knights/emerald gear takes you from 1980 armor to 2706, an increase of 27% damage reduction. Basically in a scenario of a missed dodge or you run out of endurance and can’t dodge, and get smacked by a hit that would normally do 20,000 damage on base armor… with Knight’s/Emerald gear it’d do 14,634 damage, and with a thief’s base health pool + 20 points in acrobatics + 1650 hp from runes, for a whopping 14, 455 hp, you still get one shot.

If instead of 726 extra toughness you had 726 extra vitality, you’d have 21,715 health, and you’d survive that 20k hit with base armor.

There’s a point when toughness overtakes vitality for even mitigating burst damage, when it comes to effective HP, but it’s certainly not at 10-14K.

So am I crazy or is this a set that we could find use for if you’re a pistol, sword, or shortbow oriented direct damage thief?

I havn’t got my armor set in stone but I’m currently going for a berserk/knight/valk mix up, probably 2 of each. I’m gonna shore up any missing stats I need via trinkets and jewels. I’m using the Eagle rune on all my armor to add more crit/prec.

The PvP Knight’s set (Vitality/Power/Precision) would be incredibly valuable to a Thief in PvE – not as a full set, mind you, but as something you’d be thrilled to use several pieces of. The same goes for the other very low HP classes, Guardian and Elementalist.

Unfortunately it’s only available in PvP. PvE gets Toughness/Power/Precision instead, which is great for Warriors and decent for Rangers, but not so great for anyone else.

It’s the only really gaping hole in itemization and something I’m hoping will be filled at some point in the future.

I have to disagree, With power as the main stat on Power/tough/vit, you get incredibly high power. It works VERY well with a sword/dagger build. I throw in emerald orbs and emerald jewelry (toughness/power/precision) and I now have 59% crit chance as well as an obscenely high power and still come out with over 3100 armor and 17k hp with food. I have no problem at all taking out any build from any class 1v1 and typically do just fine 1v2.

Adaneshade.2409:

I have to disagree, With power as the main stat on Power/tough/vit, you get incredibly high power. It works VERY well with a sword/dagger build. I throw in emerald orbs and emerald jewelry (toughness/power/precision) and I now have 59% crit chance as well as an obscenely high power and still come out with over 3100 armor and 17k hp with food. I have no problem at all taking out any build from any class 1v1 and typically do just fine 1v2.

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears? with power/tough/vit gears, Power/Precision/Tough jewelry provided you 59% crit chance, 3100 armor and 17k hp. Please provide screenshot.

20k hp and i run d/d, 3k attack, 40 crit chance, 105 crit dmage, 2000 armor
it’s geart

Ensign.2189:

The PvP Knight’s set (Vitality/Power/Precision) would be incredibly valuable to a Thief in PvE – not as a full set, mind you, but as something you’d be thrilled to use several pieces of. The same goes for the other very low HP classes, Guardian and Elementalist.

Unfortunately it’s only available in PvP. PvE gets Toughness/Power/Precision instead, which is great for Warriors and decent for Rangers, but not so great for anyone else.

It’s the only really gaping hole in itemization and something I’m hoping will be filled at some point in the future.

There are quite a few ways of attaining a "Soldier’s (P/V/T) set via PvE.

The Ascalonian set as well as HotW both have a Soldier set available. I believe Sorrow’s Embrace too.

Wasabee.5031:

Adaneshade.2409:

I have to disagree, With power as the main stat on Power/tough/vit, you get incredibly high power. It works VERY well with a sword/dagger build. I throw in emerald orbs and emerald jewelry (toughness/power/precision) and I now have 59% crit chance as well as an obscenely high power and still come out with over 3100 armor and 17k hp with food. I have no problem at all taking out any build from any class 1v1 and typically do just fine 1v2.

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears? with power/tough/vit gears, Power/Precision/Tough jewelry provided you 59% crit chance, 3100 armor and 17k hp. Please provide screenshot.

Very well, here is your screenshot. Anything else Mr. Doubty McDoubtpants? :-P

Adaneshade.2409:

Wasabee.5031:

Adaneshade.2409:

I have to disagree, With power as the main stat on Power/tough/vit, you get incredibly high power. It works VERY well with a sword/dagger build. I throw in emerald orbs and emerald jewelry (toughness/power/precision) and I now have 59% crit chance as well as an obscenely high power and still come out with over 3100 armor and 17k hp with food. I have no problem at all taking out any build from any class 1v1 and typically do just fine 1v2.

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears? with power/tough/vit gears, Power/Precision/Tough jewelry provided you 59% crit chance, 3100 armor and 17k hp. Please provide screenshot.

Very well, here is your screenshot. Anything else Mr. Doubty McDoubtpants? :-P

Thanks so much, now I see why you did have 59% crit chance, with 25 stacks of precision. I thought you had 59% crit chance from “raw” stats.

Thanks.

1838 is far, far from being “an obscenely high power”, in fact its an obscenely low amount of power; ur choice of sigil (perception) is awful, specially on such low power, coz the only thing it does is add 12% crit chance, and overall about 7% more dmg, which is much less than what you’d be getting with bloodlust, (around 14%), but i guess (im guessing) that the food youre using is a life stealing food; also, computing ur equipment as you describe it i dont even know how you get 1838 power from a full “soldier” armor coupled with emerald jewelry and orbs, i get at least ~2k power just from that, and im including the caretaker backpack and using magi weapons (no power stat).

Correct, I’m using lifestealing food, which hits for 314 a pop with no cooldown. The crit comes out to being worth more than bloodlust sigil due to that.

And you likely went into the Power tree in your build, which would give you more power. I run as a control tank focusing on lifesteal procs and regeneration from stealth rather than raw dps, more of an attrition style that has worked well for me.

Adaneshade.2409:

Correct, I’m using lifestealing food, which hits for 314 a pop with no cooldown. The crit comes out to being worth more than bloodlust sigil due to that.

And you likely went into the Power tree in your build, which would give you more power. I run as a control tank focusing on lifesteal procs and regeneration from stealth rather than raw dps, more of an attrition style that has worked well for me.

No, the crit sigil its not better, its only 12% more chance to proc, and that food is already 66% chance to proc on crits, so overall you wont be getting much more. Say, if you hit 100 times, u get ~60 (59) crits instead of ~50 (47), 2 thirds of this crits will lifesteal, so ull have ~40 steals against ~33, this in a sample with 100 hits, which is a long time and a hell of a lot of hits; damage wise bloodlust is better, but survival wise ur choice will be better in the long run; i didnt go into the power tree at all, i used 0/30/25/15/0, and full soldier armor with emerald orbs, full emerald trinkets with emerald jewels, guild defenders back pack, magi weapons, i still get 1965 power. And with this i get less than 16235 HP, you have 17047, which means is the robust buff and something im missing here. And probably ur running 30 in shadow line, instead of my 25 projection.

Correct I run a 0-30-30-10-0 build. My only goal is to snare/daze/distract enemy support in WvW while my zerg rolls in and finishes em off, I find I do this better as a S/D thief than any other class can.

Hmm,clarified… its a lot of criting, i run the PD build, 1vsMany, supply camps,etc. but im already equiping for the same S/D spec,ill be running similar soon.

Wasabee.5031:

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears?

Your 6 armor slots only contain a bit over 30% of your native stat bonuses from gear. When you’re getting crit from every other source available it’s not hard to push it up that far at all.

Ensign.2189:

Wasabee.5031:

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears?

Your 6 armor slots only contain a bit over 30% of your native stat bonuses from gear. When you’re getting crit from every other source available it’s not hard to push it up that far at all.

Even when I run some Rampager equipment (precision mainstat), I usually hit about 58 % with full Critical Strikes line and Signet of Agility running. 59 % is pretty far up there without using armor stats. I don’t believe it unless they’re running full mainstat precision Ascended accessories. 59 % requires almost 1,200 bonus precision, and even emerald orichalcum neck slots only give 90~.

Precision sources are: Full 30 points in traits, Emerald orb in all armor, fully stacked precision sigil on weapon, full emerald orichalcum jewelry. That gives 59% crit chance, whether or not you BELIEVE it is irrelevant.

Adaneshade.2409:

fully stacked precision sigil on weapon

There you go. Max-stacking a precision sigil will pull another 11 % and make it doable. Of course, you’re running this in WvW so…

Yeah, never stated those stats were in sPvP.

Adaneshade.2409:

Yeah, never stated those stats were in sPvP.

Doesn’t really matter if it is in sPvP, even in WvW maintaining a 25 stack is highly situational.

Not to mention that bringing the sigil stacks into the equation creates more opportunity cost for the crit rate.

Only really situational if you let yourself get downed, I guess. I manage to keep a 25 stack 90% of the time.

Adaneshade.2409:

Wasabee.5031:

Adaneshade.2409:

I have to disagree, With power as the main stat on Power/tough/vit, you get incredibly high power. It works VERY well with a sword/dagger build. I throw in emerald orbs and emerald jewelry (toughness/power/precision) and I now have 59% crit chance as well as an obscenely high power and still come out with over 3100 armor and 17k hp with food. I have no problem at all taking out any build from any class 1v1 and typically do just fine 1v2.

I still can’t see how could you get up to 59% crit chance with all of those power/tough/vit gears? with power/tough/vit gears, Power/Precision/Tough jewelry provided you 59% crit chance, 3100 armor and 17k hp. Please provide screenshot.

Very well, here is your screenshot. Anything else Mr. Doubty McDoubtpants? :-P

The best thing about this post is the conversation in the screenshot about cross eyed Sylvari. Lost my marbles at “Mother tree is mating with her brother”.

As a roaming thief I highly dislike the S/D set in WvW. I still think even though you might crit and whatever it is meant for control which is close to useless in WvW. There is no use in controlling a single person his ability to do something in a Zerg vs Zerg and although its extremely fun to play 1v1, that hardly ever is the case in WvW, atleast not on my server. I’m always alone, always outnumbered. P/D condition thief is my choice.

EDIT: I must clarify.. I’m in T1 and up against 2 servers that are insane Zerglings. Taking out a single support class in a zerg of 50/60 sometimes more is meaningless.

Haha, yeah sry should have blurred out my conversation in guild >.<.

And to your comment on WvW. I realize T1 is a zerg fest, which is why I transfer off servers that make it to T1. I run in organized duo/trio (at most a 5-man) where having a control tank is often the difference in a win or loss vs an equally matched team. That’s not to say I don’t do well solo either….Too many ppl run full berserker setups in WvW, I can down those in 2-3 auto chains with sword even with my build.