I was playing with my Guardian last night just to change things up a bit. I went to hot join then this thief came at me with;
FS->FS->CnD->BS->HS->HS = dead Guardian.
I was like a little blindfolded kid trying to hit a pinata.
So, yeah..I went back playing my thief.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
I’m ripping my hair out with my engie’s zerker build trying to get through all the stacked defenses of a Guardian with the additionnal use of ridiculous amounts of hard CC and vulnerability stacks and you’re telling me that you die to a couple of flanking strikes, a backstab and some heartseekers? >.>
HOW is that possible, tell meeeeeeeeee!
Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.
I’m ripping my hair out with my engie’s zerker build trying to get through all the stacked defenses of a Guardian with the additionnal use of ridiculous amounts of hard CC and vulnerability stacks and you’re telling me that you die to a couple of flanking strikes, a backstab and some heartseekers? >.>
HOW is that possible, tell meeeeeeeeee!
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC? (Most likely CC) The only experiences I’ve ever had from Sword users were laughable at best. It’s… intriguing. Suppose it must be a real joy to dismantle boon based bunkers bit by bit.
Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC?
Flanking Strike is unblockable. Do you even play the kitten game? Also, sword thief has infinite stun breaks. Of all builds in the game, sword thief is the most resilent against CC.
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC?
Flanking Strike is unblockable. Do you even play the kitten game?
Flanking strike is not unblockable, do you?
Stop splitting hairs, smart kitten . The second attack in the chain is the only thing that’s important, and that’s unblockable.
Oh, of course, he was asking a question about a profession and a specific spec he may or may not play, and you insult him by asking if he plays the game. It doesn’t feel very good the other way around, does it now?
There are many ways for a guardian to deal with S/D thieves in a duel. Sadly, it’s nearly impossible for a guardian to win a 1v2 against a decent S/D thief and another decent player. For example, if he’s in sword/dagger, the guardian just refrains from using shouts other than SyG. When he switches to D/P, it’s safe to use shouts again, for 10 seconds at the very least. You could also run a not-so-boon dependent spec. Meditations, for instance.
Im assuming he meant to say Larcenous Strike , and yeah S/D thief has to be wittled down or nuked…dont bother with the CC lol…played against one on my 100% boon duration 30k hp Engie …lets just say it was like watching pve thief versus top 100 thief lmao ><
I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC?
Flanking Strike is unblockable. Do you even play the kitten game?
Flanking strike is not unblockable, do you?
Stop splitting hairs, smart kitten . The second attack in the chain is the only thing that’s important, and that’s unblockable.
Oh, of course, he was asking a question about a profession and a specific spec he may or may not play, and you insult him by asking if he plays the game. It doesn’t feel very good the other way around, does it now?
Hmh, well I thought his question was sarcastic and so I replied in an insulting manner. Whatever.
Hmh, well I thought he’s question was sarcastic and so I replied in an insulting manner. Whatever.
No, I wasn’t sarcastic. I gave very little care to what happened to Thieves specs because the changes barely affect the kind of Engi I play. Even through a fair amount of time PvPing the few encounters I’ve made with Sword Thieves were the same as before, and as I’m boonless by default it’s like trying to extract water from a rock. As much as I know my matchups I only have rough ideas about matchups between other classes. The only thing I’ve seen before the update was a huge amount of complaints about Guardians requiring like 2 DPS specced classes to bring it down. I knew about the change on the Flanking Strike and the Larcenous Strike, now its smallest details…
I’m sure Engies wouldn’t insult you if you didn’t know about the exact mechanics of our gadgets or a couple of often-used bugs.
Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.
Hmh, well I thought he’s question was sarcastic and so I replied in an insulting manner. Whatever.
No, I wasn’t sarcastic. I gave very little care to what happened to Thieves specs because the changes barely affect the kind of Engi I play. Even through a fair amount of time PvPing the few encounters I’ve made with Sword Thieves were the same as before, and as I’m boonless by default it’s like trying to extract water from a rock. As much as I know my matchups I only have rough ideas about matchups between other classes. The only thing I’ve seen before the update was a huge amount of complaints about Guardians requiring like 2 DPS specced classes to bring it down.
Now… I’m sure Engies wouldn’t insult you if you didn’t know about the exact mechanics of our gadgets or a couple of often-used bugs.
Of course I wouldn’t have insulted you, but I thought you were a typcial thief player who’d reply in a sarcastic way about “how any non-noob guardian should just destroy a thief”. My bad here.
I was playing with my Guardian last night just to change things up a bit. I went to hot join then this thief came at me with;
FS->FS->CnD->BS->HS->HS = dead Guardian.
I was like a little blindfolded kid trying to hit a pinata.
So, yeah..I went back playing my thief.
How to counter: When you see the thief do that evade dodge attack thing? That’s Flanking Strike. You can take this hit, but it’s your cue to dodge the next attack since it will almost certainly be Larcenous Strike (the one that steals boons).
After that, use your boons to smash the thief.
Also, if you see a thief use CnD against you, dodge or use something to block/defend the next attack since that’s the cue that the thief will be using backstab.
So you used 20 initiative… um… you realize we only get 12 right?
This was obviously over a long period of time, the guardian had plenty chance to react. In fact from how many attacks you did, you had many chances to react. Why didn’t you dodge? Why didn’t you use any of your invulnerabilities/shelter? You know a thief can’t hurt you when his initiative is down right?
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC? (Most likely CC) The only experiences I’ve ever had from Sword users were laughable at best. It’s… intriguing. Suppose it must be a real joy to dismantle boon based bunkers bit by bit.
Meditation Guardians will eat Thieves for breakfast.
Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.
In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.
Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC? (Most likely CC) The only experiences I’ve ever had from Sword users were laughable at best. It’s… intriguing. Suppose it must be a real joy to dismantle boon based bunkers bit by bit.
Meditation Guardians will eat Thieves for breakfast.
No. No they won’t, lol. Meditation guardians may do well against S/D, but you gotta remember that the thief, quite like us, have a weapon swap. And if they’re in for some dueling, it’s gonna be D/P, where you’re gonna need your boons.
I’m ripping my hair out with my engie’s zerker build trying to get through all the stacked defenses of a Guardian with the additionnal use of ridiculous amounts of hard CC and vulnerability stacks and you’re telling me that you die to a couple of flanking strikes, a backstab and some heartseekers? >.>
HOW is that possible, tell meeeeeeeeee!
Engineers doesn’t have boon steal and spammable skills.
Although FS is not unblockable, it is not the highest damaging, so even if it’s blocked, no big deal — it is the LS that hits like a truck after FS removes the blocking boon. Not only that, LS only cost 1-init.
I had a 10 pre-stacked Might from Staff and the Thief crits me like 5 times I think…yeah I should’ve made a screenshot but I was so amazed and frustrated at the same time to think about preserving evidence.
I spent the rest of the evening trying to recreate what that Thief did because either he got lucky with 5 crits, or it’s part of his build.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Let any profession get off 8 consecutive skill activations on you and you will die. 8 skill activations + positioning makes this a medium-length fight, even. You may be used to longer fights as a guardian but that is not unduly short TTK. If the thief was allowed to blow their entire Initiative pool in succession without being interrupted that is more a failing on your part than a success on theirs.
tl;dr – You were probably fighting out of your skill level.
Not long ago, I wanted to try some dueling in sPvP on my thief with 2 elementalists guildies.
Ele 1 vs me using D/D. He won.
Ele 1 vs Ele 2. Ele 2 won.
Ele 2 vs me using S/D. He barely lasted 1 min.
Then out of nowhere a guardian joined with few others. I ended up fighting that guardian 1 on 1. I kept spamming 3 to rip off his boons, other than the fact that I missed a lot, I soon ran out of initiative while he still had boons up. However, the way I won I stealthed, pulled out Thieves Guild, in his panic I was able to finish him off. What I’m trying to say is that it wasn’t an easy fight like you said. The guardian I was fighting lasted quite well.
80 Necromancer (Main) | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 80 Warrior
Engineer and Elementalist in progress…
Let any profession get off 8 consecutive skill activations on you and you will die. 8 skill activations + positioning makes this a medium-length fight, even. You may be used to longer fights as a guardian but that is not unduly short TTK. If the thief was allowed to blow their entire Initiative pool in succession without being interrupted that is more a failing on your part than a success on theirs.
tl;dr – You were probably fighting out of your skill level.
No complaints here. I was actually inspired to play my Thief again. I was doing well until I met that Thief.
Now I just want to shake his hand.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
So you used 20 initiative… um… you realize we only get 12 right?
This was obviously over a long period of time, the guardian had plenty chance to react. In fact from how many attacks you did, you had many chances to react. Why didn’t you dodge? Why didn’t you use any of your invulnerabilities/shelter? You know a thief can’t hurt you when his initiative is down right?
Sorry, but this is a learn to play issue.
The sequence can be done right after eachother with the right spec. I don’t run S/D myself but just tested it with my current trait build (which relies on initiative gain)
Infiltrator’s signet + quick recovery should already be enough to keep your initiative up for the entire sequence beside the last heartseeker. I can bypass this by using steal midplay (if I have 5 points in trickery) or my infiltrator’s signet if using Signet Use trait
But besides the fact you can pull this entire sequence off in a chain, it’s still a very long sequence. So the rest of your post still applies.
So you used 20 initiative… um… you realize we only get 12 right?
This was obviously over a long period of time, the guardian had plenty chance to react. In fact from how many attacks you did, you had many chances to react. Why didn’t you dodge? Why didn’t you use any of your invulnerabilities/shelter? You know a thief can’t hurt you when his initiative is down right?
Sorry, but this is a learn to play issue.
I was scratching my head trying to make sense of it also, but last night it seems clear how he pulled it off.
First, he must have atleat 15pts in Trickey.
Second, he must have had spec’d Infusion of Shadow and Patience.
That should be enough to pull the whole combo off.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
So you used 20 initiative… um… you realize we only get 12 right?
This was obviously over a long period of time, the guardian had plenty chance to react. In fact from how many attacks you did, you had many chances to react. Why didn’t you dodge? Why didn’t you use any of your invulnerabilities/shelter? You know a thief can’t hurt you when his initiative is down right?
Sorry, but this is a learn to play issue.
I was scratching my head trying to make sense of it also, but last night it seems clear how he pulled it off.
First, he must have atleat 15pts in Trickey.
Second, he must have had spec’d Infusion of Shadow and Patience.
That should be enough to pull the whole combo off.
Why patience? Patience only starts ticking 3s in stealth, which means he has to stop attacking for that trait to proc. So for a fluent sequence patience wouldn’t help. The 15 points in trickery + infusion of shadow does work (though he might have to use steal midplay for additional initiative gain)
But yeah, that’s a third option for this to work without pausing and run out of initiatives.
So you used 20 initiative… um… you realize we only get 12 right?
This was obviously over a long period of time, the guardian had plenty chance to react. In fact from how many attacks you did, you had many chances to react. Why didn’t you dodge? Why didn’t you use any of your invulnerabilities/shelter? You know a thief can’t hurt you when his initiative is down right?
Sorry, but this is a learn to play issue.
I was scratching my head trying to make sense of it also, but last night it seems clear how he pulled it off.
First, he must have atleat 15pts in Trickey.
Second, he must have had spec’d Infusion of Shadow and Patience.
That should be enough to pull the whole combo off.
Why patience? Patience only starts ticking 3s in stealth, which means he has to stop attacking for that trait to proc. So for a fluent sequence patience wouldn’t help. The 15 points in trickery + infusion of shadow does work (though he might have to use steal midplay for additional initiative gain)
But yeah, that’s a third option for this to work without pausing and run out of initiatives.
Ok, no Patience. I’m just guessing since I have no idea what the build was. But now the next mystery is the amount of damage he dealt.
I’ve been trying a lot of builds last night and I still can’t match the damage.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
With my current build I do about (against heavy golems) – Zerker armour and 10/30/0/30/0 traits
700-1800 dmg with flanking strike (high dmg from crit)
1300-3200 with lacerous strike
800-2300 with c&d
1800-5000 with backstab
2000-3000 with heartseeker (<25% health)
1000-1200 with lightning strike from sigil
Against the guardian in the training place I can get him (with that exact combo) him down to 10-50% these stats are less reliable since I have to deal with the guardian trying to kill me .. :p
How do you die like that? My guardian melts practically every class in a 1v1 besides mesmers through retal. Do you use a focus offhand? Always use a focus offhand
How do you die like that? My guardian melts practically every class in a 1v1 besides mesmers through retal. Do you use a focus offhand? Always use a focus offhand
I was using a GS, I thought the “pinata” reference gave that away.
My downfall was the 10 stacks of Might on me that the Thief stole that just amplified his damage and practically stripped me naked.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
So you used 20 initiative… um… you realize we only get 12 right?
This was obviously over a long period of time, the guardian had plenty chance to react. In fact from how many attacks you did, you had many chances to react. Why didn’t you dodge? Why didn’t you use any of your invulnerabilities/shelter? You know a thief can’t hurt you when his initiative is down right?
Sorry, but this is a learn to play issue.
The sequence can be done right after eachother with the right spec. I don’t run S/D myself but just tested it with my current trait build (which relies on initiative gain)
Infiltrator’s signet + quick recovery should already be enough to keep your initiative up for the entire sequence beside the last heartseeker. I can bypass this by using steal midplay (if I have 5 points in trickery) or my infiltrator’s signet if using Signet Use trait
But besides the fact you can pull this entire sequence off in a chain, it’s still a very long sequence. So the rest of your post still applies.
Infiltrator’s Signet, Preparedness, and Quick Recovery are more than enough to have 20 initiative over the course of several seconds. Just saying. Quick Recovery would just be icing on the cake.
But other than that, everything Daecollo said was right.
