Guild Wars 2

Just to mention off the bat – sorry I’m ranting about something that hasn’t even happened yet. I’d just rather it not happen at all than wait a month for it to be changed again. Anyways onto the meat of the post.

It has been mentioned by Jonathan Sharp that they are debating changing the revealed timer back to 3s, but it seems like this change will only be happening in PvE. Now this post isn’t about whether or not I feel as if the revealed change is a good/bad thing, instead I want to focus on having two separate revealed timers.

When the revealed timer was changed, I spent the next few days cursing at myself as I constantly stealthed before the debuff had expired. It took some time but eventually my mind adjusted its internal timer and I was back to fluid gameplay. Once you get comfortable with your profession you tend to not need to look at the timers on the screen – your brain takes care of it.

My concern is that it takes time for the mind to adjust its internal timer, something which could cause a fair amount of frustration for players that are constantly shifting between PvE and PvP play. This goes for any skill/buff/etc that may be planned to have separate cool downs between PvE and PvP.

Feel free to share your opinions.

TL;DR : The revealed timer may be changed back to 3s but only in PvE. Having different cool downs on abilities/buffs/etc in PvE compared to PvP may be jarring to players that constantly switch between PvE and PvP play.

Agreed with the TL;DR.
And considering the statements they made on last Q/A interviews and all, they seem to agree too.

I have posted the exact same thing a few weeks ago wen they mentioned it for the fist time, so yeah, i fully agree with the OP.

the dev should make up their minds,

i agree with the op, that having two separate timers will of set the “mindset of the player”

I find myself wondering how necessary the debuff even is now that culling is fixed. Maybe it still is, I dunno, it just seems weird.

I do really hope they do make the revealed timer consistent across formats.
For someone who plays all aspects of the game, separate revealed timers could become a nightmare.

And I’d rather have them revert the timer back to 3s and tweak the numbers that made them consider the change in the first place. Or at the very least do a balance pass on the vast number of stealth related traits and abilities that were heavily affected by the revealed timer change.

The 4s change on Revealed did nothing to accomplish what needs to be change, thus it is justifiable that it should be reverted back to its orginal state.

Implementing different Revealed timers are unnecessary and trying to make changes consistently across the board is, not only unnecessary but also, create new set of problems.

Whether the Dev. admits it or not, the reason for the debate is that they expect a profession to behave differently in each format, but they are simply being stubborn to make changes to balance the profession.

What is balanced in PvP doesn’t necessarily means that it will stay balanced in PvE and WvW.

Glad to know that I am not alone with this opinion. They can alter the damage, and other attributes of a skill between PvE and PvP, but changing cool down times may negatively affect game play.

Also, even though this topic isn’t about my feelings towards the revealed change, I thought I may throw my thoughts in about it. Personally I feel like the removal of culling plus the revealed change was far too drastic, and had negative impacts on more builds than I think Anet was targeting.

I think they should remove Revealed all together and just lower the damage of abilities. And lower initiative costs as well.

Also, remove the “Shadowed Protectors” Regeneration limit, it makes boon duration a debuff. Maybe even turn it back into “Protection” like it used to be.

shadows protectors regeneration limit? whats that mean? ive never heard of a limit

Travlane.5948:

shadows protectors regeneration limit? whats that mean? ive never heard of a limit

If you have regeneration and you go into stealth, Shadow Protector won’t grant you more regeneration.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Protector

The regeneration applied by this trait will not apply when Regeneration is already on the character. It will, however, stack with the regeneration from Hide in Shadows

Daecollo.9578:

I think they should remove Revealed all together and just lower the damage of abilities. And lower initiative costs as well.

Also, remove the “Shadowed Protectors” Regeneration limit, it makes boon duration a debuff. Maybe even turn it back into “Protection” like it used to be.

Sorry but I don’t really agree with this at all. I can see this ending up with players doing backstab – C&D – backstab over and over again, being only visible for milliseconds. And this is only the first thing that came to mind. But this post is more about the difference in timers between PvE and PvP, because I don’t think they are going to remove revealed anytime soon.

Nex.2450:

Daecollo.9578:

I think they should remove Revealed all together and just lower the damage of abilities. And lower initiative costs as well.

Also, remove the “Shadowed Protectors” Regeneration limit, it makes boon duration a debuff. Maybe even turn it back into “Protection” like it used to be.

Sorry but I don’t really agree with this at all. I can see this ending up with players doing backstab – C&D – backstab over and over again, being only visible for milliseconds. And this is only the first thing that came to mind. But this post is more about the difference in timers between PvE and PvP, because I don’t think they are going to remove revealed anytime soon.

If backstab and mug and cloak and dagger does less damage, what is the problem with that? You would have to guess where your enemy is.

Daecollo.9578:

If backstab and mug and cloak and dagger does less damage, what is the problem with that? You would have to guess where your enemy is.

People complain already that thieves stealth to often – and in comparison to other MMO’s we have access to stealth way more often as it is already. It isn’t fun fighting something you cant see. Even with the reduced damage, the ability to backstab at a much higher rate would end up as higher DPS. Also this play style would be hellishly boring, following your opponent hitting 5, 1, 5, 1 constantly.

Nex.2450:

Daecollo.9578:

If backstab and mug and cloak and dagger does less damage, what is the problem with that? You would have to guess where your enemy is.

People complain already that thieves stealth to often – and in comparison to other MMO’s we have access to stealth way more often as it is already. It isn’t fun fighting something you cant see. Even with the reduced damage, the ability to backstab at a much higher rate would end up as higher DPS. Also this play style would be hellishly boring, following your opponent hitting 5, 1, 5, 1 constantly.

u know how long stealth is….that said u know when to evade…. right before the 3-4 seconds is up.

u know once u get a thief immobilized/chilled/stunned they are dead……do it

u know if you retal/burn/blind a thief is a dead one…..do it…..

you know if u evade/block a thieves first OR second strike they lost out on 75% of their burst dmg…..DO IT.

L2P and stop complaining.

Travlane.5948:

Nex.2450:

Daecollo.9578:

If backstab and mug and cloak and dagger does less damage, what is the problem with that? You would have to guess where your enemy is.

People complain already that thieves stealth to often – and in comparison to other MMO’s we have access to stealth way more often as it is already. It isn’t fun fighting something you cant see. Even with the reduced damage, the ability to backstab at a much higher rate would end up as higher DPS. Also this play style would be hellishly boring, following your opponent hitting 5, 1, 5, 1 constantly.

u know how long stealth is….that said u know when to evade…. right before the 3-4 seconds is up.

u know once u get a thief immobilized/chilled/stunned they are dead……do it

u know if you retal/burn/blind a thief is a dead one…..do it…..

you know if u evade/block a thieves first OR second strike they lost out on 75% of their burst dmg…..DO IT.

L2P and stop complaining.

Sorry I think you haven’t fully understood our conversation as we were talking about the full removal of the revealed debuff, not the currently existing game play. So this can’t really be a L2P problem. Anyways this thread is getting a bit derailed so hopefully we can get back on topic.

yes i know. and it stems from players inability to….well just think…..they already dumbed the game down about 80% to increase target consumers. now they complain about invis and revealed not being long enough.

and tbh looking at it from a mathematical PoV…..decreasing dmg 33% or so and making NO revealed debuff actually increases outgoing dmg during a fight maybe double or tripple. even if u took 75% of outgoing dmg away a good thief will still win without a revealed buff.

Travlane.5948:

yes i know. and it stems from players inability to….well just think…..they already dumbed the game down about 80% to increase target consumers. now they complain about invis and revealed not being long enough.

and tbh looking at it from a mathematical PoV…..decreasing dmg 33% or so and making NO revealed debuff actually increases outgoing dmg during a fight maybe double or tripple. even if u took 75% of outgoing dmg away a good thief will still win without a revealed buff.

Well, they need to change the way stealth works so you can see the thief if your right infront of him, but increase stealth a bit and remove revealed and lower damage. More active gameplay.

if u can see a thief in stealth at any level or sort they need to drastically reroll the way a thief works mainly in defense. u can kiss backstab goodbye if that happens. they arlready took a 50% defense/offensive hit from the extra second of revealed. thieves are pretty close to balance . just need a few very minor tweeks