PvP- Can some experienced thief explain me?

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Posted by: Ezaster.2498

Ezaster.2498

So, I am running this build – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn0MBNmilOBGOB8PhFqiyLE+gSoLBCgDYu6/+xH-TpBFABLcIAa4IAE/+DAcCAEvMABPAAA

and my question is… what’s wrong with this build exactly? I’ve been using it successfully for quite a long time, being able to both kill and be killed by other thieves. My main questions are about certain things contained at this build – why shouldn’t I use something, because other ppl use something different.

1 – Bounding Dodger – why should I use Unhindered over it? I mean, I think that Bounding gives a lot better finisher and also increased the dmg/gives the “stomp” dmg, while Unhindered gives me only swiftness, reduced dmg taken, erases mov. imparing effects and gives u (useless I think) finisher. Bounding gives a lot more backstab potential and higher initiation dmg (standard combo – pistol 5, begin dodge > Steal, 1 [u get stealth for backstab]), also with the acrobatics traits I use (I will proceed to it later) also u gain some swiftness.

2 – Acrobatics – why would I take Deadly Arts instead? I don’t find (standard) double stolen usage more useful/ some dmg increase compared to stun break, a lot more endurance, 2s evasion (or condi cleanse every 20secs) and some bonus initiative (like really a lot if u keep in mind that u have as DD huge amound of dodges + you get huge amound of endurence regen with acrobatics).

3 – Distracting daggers – over ??? – Let me explain – after HoT I really don’t know which spell should I use as my 3rd. Some people use Impairing Daggers but it’s not very useful if you will keep in mind, that you will face so much condi cleanse other classes have (let’s be honest, it doesnt work for druids at all), the same goes with mesmers (not mentioning the invuln. this class has now) and eles. I find distracting daggers nice if you really know when to use it. It will increase enemy’s cooldowns and hit them with pulmonary impact which is both uncleanseable and unblockable. Some people also use Fist Flurry. but let’s face it. Noone will stand in one place and get that whole dmg it can make.

That’s most of the questions I wanted to ask the Theif society. I’d love any constructive critique that will explain my why my thinking is wrong and why the “meta” build is better than this one.

I must also add, that I am diamond (I know how does it sound like, but I find my oponents being not bad quality [a lot of primodial legend titled foes] and I added that to only mark that any facerololo build won’t pass here easily because you will get smashed [also I wanted to mark that my oponents aren’t complete baddies that never dodge nor counterplay, nothing more. I am not saying that "Wow me be diamond me be better].

Also, It’s my 1st post and I tried my best to make my englando the best I can, so please don’t make grammar storm, but only focus on the topic. Thank you. I appreciate any kind of support.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

So, I am running this build – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn0MBNmilOBGOB8PhFqiyLE+gSoLBCgDYu6/+xH-TpBFABLcIAa4IAE/+DAcCAEvMABPAAA

and my question is… what’s wrong with this build exactly?

First of, you’re missing either DA or CS as a source of damage. So in times that you’re being outplayed and not landing any interrupts, you’re not dealing any significant damage. In other words, this build is a one-trick-pony, you need a contingency plan in case Plan-A didn’t work.

1 – Bounding Dodger – why should I use Unhindered over it? I mean, I think that Bounding gives a lot better finisher and also increased the dmg/gives the “stomp” dmg, while Unhindered gives me only swiftness, reduced dmg taken, erases mov. imparing effects and gives u (useless I think) finisher. Bounding gives a lot more backstab potential and higher initiation dmg (standard combo – pistol 5, begin dodge > Steal, 1 [u get stealth for backstab]), also with the acrobatics traits I use (I will proceed to it later) also u gain some swiftness.

Nothing wrong picking this over UC since it really depends on your playstyle. In most cases, UC is better since the most annoying part of playing as a Thief is Immobilize. Since you’re not spec-ing for Don’t Stop, immobilize is your kryptonite.

2 – Acrobatics – why would I take Deadly Arts instead? I don’t find (standard) double stolen usage more useful/ some dmg increase compared to stun break, a lot more endurance, 2s evasion (or condi cleanse every 20secs) and some bonus initiative (like really a lot if u keep in mind that u have as DD huge amound of dodges + you get huge amound of endurence regen with acrobatics).

IMO, keep Acro and swap Trick to CS, but that’s just me. In my build, I don’t see any benefit running DA at all. With your build, you can convert all that Precision to Crit Damage by taking Practiced Tolerance, then more crit damage via No Quarter.

3 – Distracting daggers – over ??? – Let me explain – after HoT I really don’t know which spell should I use as my 3rd. Some people use Impairing Daggers but it’s not very useful if you will keep in mind, that you will face so much condi cleanse other classes have (let’s be honest, it doesnt work for druids at all), the same goes with mesmers (not mentioning the invuln. this class has now) and eles. I find distracting daggers nice if you really know when to use it. It will increase enemy’s cooldowns and hit them with pulmonary impact which is both uncleanseable and unblockable. Some people also use Fist Flurry. but let’s face it. Noone will stand in one place and get that whole dmg it can make.

That’s fine as is if you can land your interrupts. I personally have no problem with this. However, as I’ve mentioned, you need a plan-B and IMO, taking CS over Trick would be a good fit for your build.

Of course, there would be many other possibility that can improve your build, but that is my opinion on this matter.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Shovel Face.4512

Shovel Face.4512

1. It’s a toss up. I use both Dash and Bound and have success with both and most importantly, enjoy both.
2. Acro line is solid, it’s just that there are other traits that give you more. DA is just too good of a trait not to take. Mug allows for quicker and stronger burst while giving you some health. Panic stike is great. And for me, I take executioner because the extra damage is awesome.
3. I use to use distracting daggers but found it to be underwhelming. Imo it’s either you’re to focused trying to land your dagger correctly instead of actually fighting that you die or you just end up not using it in the fight because well you don’t need it. I take impairing daggers now. It does really nice damage, slows opponents and poisond them suppressing their healing ability. Also immobilizes so you can sneak in a few autos.

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Posted by: Midi.8359

Midi.8359

Also just a diamond thief. Started halfway into the season and only did solo queue/conquest.

Not really that off-meta of a build you have. Except for the Acro over DA, daggers, and possibly some sigil choices. Also could say Bound is slightly worser than Dash.

First things first though, I don’t know if it’s just me but I think sigil of blood is actually bugged right now. Went ingame and tested it on golems/duelers in 1v1 rooms and could never get it to proc. Only tested it a few times though, dunno possible I missed the combat log every time. If you want to use it I’d make sure it’s not bugged though.

I wrote some stuff about taking Dash over Bound and vice versa on the forums here: [Link]. Not saying my thoughts here are right. But those are my thoughts on the matter and I don’t want to write it again. Although, the way you have it set up you have to run Bound to justify Acro.

There’s more to DA than the Grandmaster trait. You listed every traitline when justifying Acro. Should do the same when considering DA. Particularly notable is the virtually flat +10% dps increase DA offers and damage/healing from mug.

Also personally I don’t pay much attention to the thief vs. thief matchup in weighing builds. It’s not often that you’re stuck 1v1’ing a thief (In terms of the entire game). Even less often that you’re stuck 1v1’ing in a fair scenario. In my opinion that slight unfairness is what decides who will “win” the 1v1 often enough to make the mirror matchup not worth obsessing over.

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Posted by: Ezaster.2498

Ezaster.2498

Thanks for the reply, Sir Vincent III. I will run some test and check if CS is better for me than Trick, but I am not really sure if it’s worth losing 10s CDR on Steal and a lot of initiative it provides. As I said, I will test it soon.

First things first though, I don’t know if it’s just me but I think sigil of blood is actually bugged right now. Went ingame and tested it on golems/duelers in 1v1 rooms and could never get it to proc. Only tested it a few times though, dunno possible I missed the combat log every time. If you want to use it I’d make sure it’s not bugged though.

Well, when you find Superior Sigil of Blood, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Blood
wiki says that “Bug: Neither the healing component or the damage are recorded in the combat log. However, the effects are triggered on critical as intended.” so I think that it does work as wiki says.

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Posted by: Midi.8359

Midi.8359

Ah that explains things. Good to know.

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

I can’t see the build atm as it won’t load for some reason, but honestly bound and acro over dash and DA is a personal preference really. As long as you’re killing meta builds and you’re having fun, carry on doing what you’re doing tbh.

Critical Kit, Thief.
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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Note the build editor you used is not fully updated with the changes so not all of your choices will be accessible and some of the alternates I’m suggesting may be better in terms of your build’s functionality.

Changes I’d personally make (not required and it does vary on playstyle but this is what I would personally run assuming you didn’t want to swap any lines)
Acro-
Change to vigorous recovery in your adept slot. This will give you more access to dodge which will lead to a reduction in damage received and an increase in damage applied as you will have your booster up more and the damage from your dodge will proc more.
Use don’t stop in your grandmaster. Immob as a d/p thief is your worst enemy, being able to cleanse it fairly consistently with your heal and withdraw is a great way to ensure survival.
Trickery-
This one is completely preference but I would take trickster over bountiful theft. The extra condi clear on top of a lowered cd allows for more sustain through a fight (also allows you to take roll for initiative over distracting daggers if you want another escape and condi clear)
Daredevil-
I would change from impacting disruption to escapists’ absolution. Yes having the interrupt damage is amazing, but in this meta where so many aoe condi’s are being thrown around it is very nice to have the consistent clear that EA gives you especially since you don’t use dash for condi clear/mitigation which is fine you just have to compensate in other areas.

Those are just my personal changes if you’d want to keep the same lines. Personally I’d swap Acro for DA to have some extra damage and sustain but this build should work fine too.

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

So, I am running this build – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVn0MBNmilOBGOB8PhFqiyLE+gSoLBCgDYu6/+xH-TpBFABLcIAa4IAE/+DAcCAEvMABPAAA

and my question is… what’s wrong with this build exactly? I’ve been using it successfully for quite a long time, being able to both kill and be killed by other thieves. My main questions are about certain things contained at this build – why shouldn’t I use something, because other ppl use something different.

I’ll touch on a couple general principles that apply to the answers below real quick before specifically addressing your questions.

D/P Thief excels because it does a few unique things exceptionally well:

  • Quickly moves to points to make decapping a point advantageous to your team.
  • Can jump into a fight and burst a low hp target before they can see you coming.
  • Can strip stability to prevent many safety stomps/revives.
  • Has access to headshot, which can reliably and frequently interrupt skills/revives/stomps.

D/P, no matter how you spec or build for it is not good at:

  • Engaging in the middle of a big team fight for any extended time.
  • Outlasting or out-sustaining fights.
  • Being a 1 v 1 hero (even if you can win some 1 v 1s, this is seldom a good idea compared to what you could be doing otherwise).

1 – Bounding Dodger – why should I use Unhindered over it? I mean, I think that Bounding gives a lot better finisher and also increased the dmg/gives the “stomp” dmg, while Unhindered gives me only swiftness, reduced dmg taken, erases mov. imparing effects and gives u (useless I think) finisher. Bounding gives a lot more backstab potential and higher initiation dmg (standard combo – pistol 5, begin dodge > Steal, 1 [u get stealth for backstab]), also with the acrobatics traits I use (I will proceed to it later) also u gain some swiftness.

The basic reason for this is that while Bound is a really strong dodge for duels and actual combat, it comes at great expense to your mobility. You have all the tools you need to bring heavy burst to +1 and Bound just isn’t needed, even if it is helpful.

It’s pretty much the same reason you run Marauder’s amulet instead of Berserker. Yes, there are ways to increase your burst and Bound is one of them. You can bring Impairing Daggers, Fist Flury and then use Black Powder -> Impairing Dagger -> Bound -> Steal -> Backstab -> Fist Flurry to burst anything that’s not blocking/evading in a second, but that doesn’t mean that it justifies everything else that you can’t do by investing in these skills.

2 – Acrobatics – why would I take Deadly Arts instead? I don’t find (standard) double stolen usage more useful/ some dmg increase compared to stun break, a lot more endurance, 2s evasion (or condi cleanse every 20secs) and some bonus initiative (like really a lot if u keep in mind that u have as DD huge amound of dodges + you get huge amound of endurence regen with acrobatics).

There’s a couple reasons to this below, but in general, DA is a trait line build for bursting, whereas Acro is designed to help you win sustained fights. D/P is a burst weapon set and even outside of this, thieves generally don’t do well in sustained fights. Here’s how DA plays towards burst:
1) Mug applies burst on your basic steal combos
2) Panic Strike immob works perfectly for when you +1 a low HP target to keep them from line-of-sighting or fleeing damage from your ally as well as from you.
3) Even if you don’t like Improv, Executioner is again a huge damage boost to low hp targets.

3 – Distracting daggers – over ??? – Let me explain – after HoT I really don’t know which spell should I use as my 3rd. Some people use Impairing Daggers but it’s not very useful if you will keep in mind, that you will face so much condi cleanse other classes have (let’s be honest, it doesnt work for druids at all), the same goes with mesmers (not mentioning the invuln. this class has now) and eles. I find distracting daggers nice if you really know when to use it. It will increase enemy’s cooldowns and hit them with pulmonary impact which is both uncleanseable and unblockable. Some people also use Fist Flurry. but let’s face it. Noone will stand in one place and get that whole dmg it can make.

Distracting sounds great in theory, but the pre-cast restricts your window of opportunity and limits your ability to land an interrupt when you really need it (such as against an enemy heal).

As for what else to bring instead, that is easily Shadow’s Refuge, Blinding Powder, or even Inf Sig. I’d argue Blinding Powder is probably the best option since the instant stealth gives you an edge in a lot of situations. You can prevent stomps with it more reliably than SR by popping it at the last second if you have an ally that is still attacking in downed state. If you’re in a coordinated group or at least are playing with higher caliber teammates, it’s also great for AoE stacking stealth. Finally, while it’s not a stun break, it can save you when stunned often due to the blind and ability to use while stunned.

There’s two other things I would suggest for your build as well:

Impact Strike I strongly suggest playing with this skill a bit more if you haven’t. Here’s why:
1) With decent timing, you can fully spike a downed enemy as part of your burst rotation since it hits very hard. Even if a target isn’t downed after using Upper Cut, Finishing Blow will spike the target if it deals enough damage to down them.
2) The increased spike time in general will make or break so many fights, especially since the patch that eliminated quickness stomping since this is the only fast-cast spike in the entire game.
3) You have a decent window of time between each chain, so even if a target gets ported, such as a thief using downed skill or a ranger using Search and Rescue, you still are able to move to their location and finish the chain. Feel free to try this out in the mists by using the first chain on one golem, the second on another, then the 3rd on another.
4) Even outside of the spike capabilities, this is a great skill for general CC and damage. The short cooldown allows you to get the upper hand in fights and this is especially useful when fighting necros.

BV is good and the unblockable change is nice as well, but the cast time keeps you from ever really being able to land this to prevent a heal through shelter or anything like that anyways.

Daredevil Runes These aren’t doing you a lot of good when you’re running a marauder amulet. I mean, these are great for Valkyrie staff builds, but the toughness isn’t really helpful and you just don’t get much damage from runes that guarantee a crit on an attack that was probably going to crit anyways. I mean, take a look at your build. You have a 63% base crit chance, which goes up to 80% after Steal since you have TotC specced.

I’d recommend Scholar runes since they’re very strong for a bursty +1 playstyle, but Runes of the Pack are another good option. You can even consider running Flanking Strikes if you go with these since they give you access to fury.

edit @ Midi: I’ve noticed that life steal in general doesn’t seem to hit the combat logs, but I have seen the numbers appear on targets when this happens. I can’t remember Sigil of Blood specifically, but I know that I’ve seen this when playing around with Skelk Venom and Sigil of Leeching.

(edited by Dahkeus.8243)

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

1. BD is good but UC is awesome. In one trait we have 10% damage reduction including condi, clears all mobility conditions, moves 450 and applies speed. This trait alone can kite most builds. BDs direct damage is minor and while 10% is nothing to scoff at, it in no way equals UC in general terms.

2. It turns a players steal from good to excellent. Mug is a solid damager and decent heal, the minor traits basically weaken a player and apply a 10% damage bonus. Then of course comes Executioner which is one of the biggest burst modifiers in the game. The mid-tier of DA isn’t that hot as Panic Strike is easily countered and the other two skills are very conditional. On a critical based build, Critical Strikes is better IMO.

3. Going with Distracting Daggers means leaving behind Bandits Defense. BD is one of the best sustain skills in the game. A block, optional knockdown and a stun break on a 15s cooldown. It is crazy good. Besides for Distracting Daggers to be good means leaving behind Escapist Absolution which borders on obscenely good.

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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

nothing is wrong with that build except the poor choice of runes, why do you need daredevil rune if you already have 62% crit even without fury? (while also having fury just from yourself on a 50% uptime thx to trickery line)

the real problem is the weapon though, that build wont work with d/p

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